Why is it so?

Dog Star (Phil) · #1 10-01-2009, 08:54 AM

It appears to me that the vast majority of us (and I'm one of them) refer to themselves as "amateur astronomers." I know I do.
Perversely though, bird watchers (and I'm one of them too) don't refer to themselves as "amateur ornithologists" despite the fact that most bird watchers have an extensive knowledge of and experience with their intended quarry.
Thoughts, anyone?

Kevnool (Kev) · #2 10-01-2009, 09:06 AM

So since i construct roads for a living ( as i get paid) this should let me be titled Road Constructor instead of the farmer who makes a road to his letterbox (who dont get paid) should he be called Amateur Road Constructor.
Is this the path we going down?
Cheers Kev.

Dog Star (Phil) · #3 10-01-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevnool

So since i construct roads for a living this should let me be titled Road Constructor instead of the farmer who makes a road to his letterbox should he be called Amateur Road Consructor.
Is this the path we going down?
Cheers Kev.

Not exactly. I'm asking what path you go down and why?

jungle11 (Greg) · #4 10-01-2009, 09:45 AM

I'd call myself an enthusiast, but I dont see anything wrong with A.A. The Ameteur makes it ok - BUT, Ive talked to some pretty knowledgable people here, and since A.A.s make alot of discoverys and give their career professional counterparts the heads up - then the title is well deserved.

Perhaps some among us would be more inclined to knock 'amateur'

Barrykgerdes · #5 10-01-2009, 10:15 AM

Hi
Being an amateur at anything does not mean that you can't be the best in your field. It just means you don't get paid for it. This often means that you can get better results. You all know the old adage "He who pays the piper calls the tune".

I am an amateur when it comes to computer and electronic repairs. That is why I only get to work on equipment that the pros can't fix. A pastime that I am quite successful at.

Barry

PS My income comes entirely from the government as an old age pensioner and CSS. I suppose that means I am a professional loafer.

Barry

GrahamL · #6 10-01-2009, 10:21 AM

Its a term to describe those who havn't yet found employment in the field they would so like to ... or for a proffesional astronomer whos grant funding has run out and there between jobs

Calling astronomy a hobby is one I find a little weird ..as its ..nought ..a hobby!!!!.. its much more obssesive than that

Galactic G (Greg) · #7 10-01-2009, 10:50 AM

"Atmospheric pressure does the work."

However, a serious answer may be that "Amateur Ornithologist" just doesn't roll of the tongue like "Birder" or "Bird Watcher" does. On top of that, if you surveyed a group of people, most would know what an astronomer is, but may not know what an ornithologist is, whereas to brand yourself a "bird watcher" overcomes this problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dog Star

Perversely though, bird watchers (and I'm one of them too) don't refer to themselves as "amateur ornithologists"

You've probably stated the real answer right there. Since those who pursue amateur ornithology prefer to call themselves "Bird Watchers" the expression remains in use. However, I note that "Amateur Ornithologist" is often used to describe this group especially when grouping them with "Professional Ornithologists." IE. "A group of professional and amateur Ornithologists surveyed a field" is more likely to be written instead of "A group of professional ornithologists and bird watchers surveyed a field."

At the end of the day it's probably easier to blame Edmund Selous. If only he'd called his 1901 book "Ornithology" instead of "Bird Watching"

Enchilada · #8 10-01-2009, 10:51 AM

Dog Star
The term I happen to prefer is the rather archaic word astrognosy (astrognosist, being the science or knowledge of the stars, especially of the 'fixed' visible naked-eye stars. This implies not outstanding knowledge of astrophysics or the mathematics behind it, and still distinguishes one from the lameness of astrology (sincere apologies for using such language on such a family site.)

This word astrognosy is probably best known from the chapter with the same title by 1858 book by Alexander von Humboldt "Cosmos : A Sketch of A Physical Description of the Universe" (1859) in four volumes - Vol III being on astronomy matters. (An on line copy of this work is at the Library of 19th Century Science The Golden Age of Geology ;
http://www.geology.19thcenturyscienc...I/htm/doc.html. Here, a lovely definition and introduction appears from pg.26 onwards.

This classic book is often quoted, and is a must-read if you are want information on general historical astronomy or classical view of the Heavens.

It is interesting about your "amateur" ornithologist inclinations, which by birds you mean birds of the feathered or avifauna variety and not either federal narcotic agents, nor the contradictory, whoops, I mean opposite sex?

Also is the general slang for bird watchers like "twitter" or "tweet" derogatory or offensive?

For amateur astronomers, astro is probably acceptable, though years ago, some of the woman at work once amusingly use to call me "Astro Boy" just to rile me, or if after a weekend stargazing, just "Perve."

acropolite (Phil) · #9 10-01-2009, 11:25 AM

I think it's just one of those descriptions that have evolved to be accepted as meaning professional.

To me an astronomer is one who works professionally, just as a Pilot is one who flies planes for a living. I have a private pilot's licence, but have never describe myself as a pilot, I simply tell people I have a private pilots licence. Similarly the term Technician is generally used for those who work professionally in the industry as is builder, carpeter and plumber.

Diver on the other hand is a term used for both professional and amateur, the destinction being made with prefixes, Navy Clearance diver, Abalone Diver, Oil Rig Diver, Police Rescue Diver etc.

I guess it just amounts to the general perception of the term, personally, I don't even like to be labelled an amateur astronomer, I'm simply a person who enjoys astronomy as a hobby,

jungle11 (Greg) · #10 10-01-2009, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightstalker

Its a term to describe those who havn't yet found employment in the field they would so like to ... or for a proffesional astronomer whos grant funding has run out and there between jobs

Calling astronomy a hobby is one I find a little weird ..as its ..nought ..a hobby!!!!.. its much more obssesive than that

Ooo I don't know.
My mother's 'hobby' is scrapbooking. 24/7 scrapbooking

Believe me 'obsession' in in the eye of the hobbiest

Dog Star (Phil) · #11 10-01-2009, 12:24 PM

This is all well and good and I thank all who have replied

My reason for starting this thread was two-fold:
1. I wondered if perhaps I was in fact wearing my britches a bit high by calling myself an amateur astronomer and thought I'd get a gauge of how fellow IIS'ers felt about the term.
2. The English language and its modes of thought and subtleties of expression fascinates me (amateur linguist, anyone?

) and I was curious as to how others view the term and its associations.
Hmm. Guess it's back to the old "star gazing" then. Oddly enough, this isn't a term that I'm entirely happy with either.
Damn! I so wanted to be an astronomer

May the Western spotted bower bird sing to you all!

Jen · #12 10-01-2009, 04:57 PM

well i class myself as a wannabe astronomer

Dog Star (Phil) · #13 10-01-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen

well i class myself as a wannabe astronomer

Onya Jen.

That just might be the term to use.

By the way Enchilada, many thanks for your link regarding the astrognosis

Quite an interesting read. Think I might have to read the entire book.
As to the type of birds I watch, I guess I'd have to say all 3

TrevorW · #14 10-01-2009, 09:04 PM

I never refer to myself as belonging to a AA group even though I should sometimes

Hic !!!

Enchilada · #15 10-01-2009, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen

well i class myself as a wannabe astronomer

Jen,
Thanks so much for the remark. Haven't had a laugh out loud (LOL) moment all day!
However at my own advancing age, mine would be more like the "no hope in Hades" astronomer. Perhaps I should had just studied that little bit more when I was in school?

I corumba !

Enchilada · #16 10-01-2009, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorW

I never refer to myself as belonging to a AA group even though I should sometimes

Hic !!!

AA. I presume you mean by AA an Alcoholic Astronomer?

Glenhuon (Bill) · #17 10-01-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorW

I never refer to myself as belonging to a AA group even though I should sometimes

Hic !!!

I'll drink to that

Zuts · #18 11-01-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenhuon

I'll drink to that

Thats tripple A, or do I mean tipple A, Alcoholic Astronomers Anonymous

Jen · #19 11-01-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada

Jen,
Thanks so much for the remark. Haven't had a laugh out loud (LOL) moment all day!
However at my own advancing age, mine would be more like the "no hope in Hades" astronomer. Perhaps I should had just studied that little bit more when I was in school?

I corumba !

LMAO

Wavytone · #20 11-01-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchilada

Dog Star
The term I happen to prefer is the rather archaic word astrognosy (astrognosist,

surely you mean "astrognowitall"...