Protestors gone too far!

[andrewk_82 (Andrew)]

Hi,
This doesn't have anything to do with astronomy, but I thought that the other side of the story should be told as it probably won't make it into the media.
My Brother works as a geologist for a contract exploration firm that it currently working on the Caroona Coal Project which is being carried out by BHP. There has been quite a bit of local media attention for the project with farmers protesting against the project. I've got no problem with them protesting, and as far as I'm concerned they probably do have a legitimate cause.

My problem is that they have taken this protesting way too far. Last week my Brother was working within 20m of a drilling rig when one of the protestors flew low overhead in a crop duster and dumped a whole heap of pesticides on the guys doing the drilling . He got some chemicals on himself but nothing like the drillers. As well as potentially poisoning the drillers they were only meters away from the top of the drilling rig. If they'd have hit this they would have killed themselves and potentially all of the drillers .

What these protestors have to realise is that these people are just doing their jobs, with families at home to feed etc. The protestors have a beef with BHP and the Government, NOT the people on the ground. As a result of this as far as I'm concerned they have lost all sympathy from me for their cause. Fight your cause but do it the right why.

Sorry to rant but this made me angry and I needed to get it out there.

[xelasnave]

Andrew it is good to point out things that are not right.
The piolet involved should be reported to the Dept of Aviation or whatever dept exists to oversee and regulate piolets.
Such an action as you pointed out was dangerously stupid irrespective of the issues surrounding the matter and as such should not go unpunished.
If nothing else your brother and the others no doubt have a right of action in assault one would think... and damages would not be insignificant one would expect.
If nothing else I can not see why the piolet should retain his licience... if he sent an envelope thru the mail with such stuff in the envelope he would be up on terroism charges...so where is the consistency in scruting of dangerous actions.

alex

[jungle11 (Greg)]

I agree totaly, that was a stupid thing to do, especially as your brother and the others are only employees earning a crust. I dont get that.

I did concrete testing for some powerlines between Towoomba and Millmeran, and most of these towers were placed in peoples properties. We had equiptment wrecked often, and as far as i could see, a couple of towers in the back paddock had no effect on their farms whatsoever. But whatever their cause, its pointless shooting the messanger

[DJDD]

something similar happened to friends of mine in an area of victoria.
except that they were protesting against logging/burn offs and the alleged offender that flew the crop duster was a member of parliament who was pro-logging.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

The actions of the protesters was clearly unacceptable but I don't think anyone should let the actions of a few idiots change their view of an issue.

Perhaps some people think the Sea Shepherd goes too far, but does that make it OK to hunt whales? I was horrified when I heard that anti-logging protesters were driving spikes into trees to make them unsafe to mill, but I still support the preservation of old-growth forests. The pronouncements of some climate-change activists make me wince but I still don't think we can carry on in a business-as-usual manner.

A person needs to decide their position based on the best information they have and then stick to it. Letting horror, fear, charm or charisma rule is the start of a slippery slide into populist politics. And look at the mess that has caused.

[Ian Robinson]

The pilot needs to be prosecuted and put out business.

I take it this is now a police matter , and also a matter for the organisation who do air safety.

[casstony]

How do you know it was pesticides and not water?

In any case, all protest should be non-violent in this country.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by casstony

How do you know it was pesticides and not water?

In any case, all protest should be non-violent in this country.

does not matter ...any action can only be an assualt wheter they use a brick or a feather the law regards such as an assualt...
alex

[xelasnave]

In fact it is the indication of an attack that constituts an asault.. so a threatning gesture is all that is needed for an assault..battery is what most think of as an assault but it is as I have put it.


alex

[andrewk_82 (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by casstony

How do you know it was pesticides and not water?

In any case, all protest should be non-violent in this country.

I didn't ask him that, but I assume that my brother has enough intelligence to tell the difference, as they probably do not smell like water.

[casstony]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

does not matter ...any action can only be an assualt wheter they use a brick or a feather the law regards such as an assualt...
alex

It would be very important to me. If I was sprayed with water I'd think "bloody idiot". If I was sprayed with pesticide I'd be looking for compensation for potential health consequences.

[ving (David)]

for every action...

I pity the fools!

[acropolite (Phil)]

This sort of thing will continue to happen when governments chose to divide communities by making dubious decisions and allowing the proponents and opponents to slug it out.

That's no excuse for that kind of action though.

Recently in Tasmania a group of redneck forest workers smashed up protestors cars with block busters in a violent and intimidating manner, government failed to condemn the actions saying they understood why the foresters acted in that manner and instead charging the protestors with trespass.

When governments deliberately engage in that sort of divide and conquer tactic there is no little alternative to confrontation.

[wraithe]

Cant remember where the link is but under a new act, any action to install fear of injury or death, can be regarded as a terrorist act...

Under the new laws, these actions, no matter how innocent, can be regarded as terrorism and as such the perpetrator can be prosecuted as a terrorist...

Now onto Greenpeace...
Two things, any group that claims that humans do not belong on the earth and therefore will push to have the removal of the human race as its ultimate aim, are no better than the people we shoot as terrorists...
The second issue is the financing of greenpeace, major donor Rockefeller foundation who happen to be major oil owners...

There has been a lot of research done into these groups due to some of there actions and policies...


Cut trees down, stop digging iron ore...
Trees regrow, iron ore mining leaves a big hole that doesnt regrow...

[acropolite (Phil)]

Originally Posted by wraithe

Cut trees down, stop digging iron ore...

If only it were that simple.

In Tasmania they cut down native forest, then burn what's left, polluting the air and killing any fauna left in the area. They then replant with monoculture (single species) which by it's very nature tends to attract pests and grazing animals.

These "environmentally sustainable" plantations encourage massive buildup of predatory insect species which have to be controlled with chemical spraying, as often as fortnightly. Grazing animals are poisoned with carrots laced with 1080.

The chemicals used, many of which are banned in europe and north america, end up in our waterways. Grazing animals are poisoned and left to die and rot, usually they die in or around watercourses further polluting our watercourses.

Modern forestry practices totally strip the land leaving soil prone to erosion and the natural understore which would normally slow and filter the water before it reaches our watercourses is no longer there.

Add to that the fact that old native forest stores much more carbon than fast growing trees that are harvested and release as much as 80% of the captured carbon on harvest and chopping down trees isn't the environmentally sustainable industry it's cracked up to be.

Growing trees use up much more water than established forests, water that plantation owners don't have to pay for, plus the forestry industry gets massive subsidies in the form of infrastructure and MIS subsidies.

If you want to know the ultimate consequence of planting monoculture crops track down the excellent ABC podcast or trabscript of the ABC Background briefing program "The Trouble with bees" it's paints a worrying picture of the effects of chemical spraying, genetic modification and monoculture crops.

Give me iron ore any day.....

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Further to my previous post. Another issue that occurs to me is the idea that "well if they are going to act that way I won't support them". Who are "they"? At the moment we know of one or two idiots. As yet I have seen no evidence that the broad protest movement supported this action. And there is no logistical need for them to have done so. The pilot and one or two others could have done this on their own. So lets no foul the image of all by the actions of renegades.

An action such as this must have been taken by people new to the politics of protest. Experienced activists (and many newbies) understand that scaring a few drillers is not the main game. Public opinion and the image of the pollies is the name of the game. That can involve explanation, demonstration, symbolic actions etc but not terrorist acts on workers.

If people let themselves be swayed by this sort of action then it becomes just too easy for interest groups with access to any reasonable amount of funding to influence public opinion. All you need to do is stage an "incident' and - problem solved. Please, look at the issue objectively and then evaluate the pro and cons of your fellow travellers.

BTW After 30 years of attending protests of one kind or other I finally met provocateurs at the APEC protest. It is a testament to the maturity of the protesters that no one rose to the bait and they were completely ineffectual.The protest was completely peaceful, despite the alarm and the gross waste of public money on unnecessary 'security'.

[TrevorW]

In all battles the innocent often suffer needlessly !!!

[wraithe]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

In all battles the innocent often suffer needlessly !!!

That pretty much says it all...Just look at every war from history, the writers rarely give out the information about the innocent, because they are usually members of the victors who have the benefit of writing history...


Onto the note about forests, they protested to stop logging where I live, yep they totally succeeded in shutting down a whole heap of mills and putting a lot of people out of work.,..sounds like they succeeded, hey...sadly no they did not succeed at anything except to allow the conglomerates to win what they wanted in the first place, total forest control...
Now there is more timber cut down, less timber utilized fopr quality products and no greenies left...

Only companies to quit the industry where the small ones that couldnt compete with the greenies, the big corps now have there timber quota and an increase of timber cut...

The greenies complain about clear felling in this area, but if they stopped for just an hour and had a read about the way these trees grow and about the competition by another species, they may just understand why clear felling is the only solution..If you dont, then the species in question will disappear all together as another species down here not utilized by timber millers now, will take over...
I have seen selectively felled country from over 100 years ago and the species that grows in this district is gone completely from that lot...

I dont know what species grows in Tasmania and i know from where i live my early years, that you cant clear fell there, but in this country the "Karri" cant compete, its not the variety that will compete with other species like Marri(Redgum)...


Anyway, back to protestors...
A couple of people stopped a truck in a neighbouring town, while one was standing blocking the road with a lollipop sign, another padlocked himself to an axle of the trailer...
They where protesting old growth forest logging...
Funny thing was, the truck had plantation timber on it...
The interesting thing was, the truck was coming from areas that have little old growth...
Now what gets me is, if they are going to protest, why not use the same methods the rest of us have to...use the politicians, a few well written letters and a few well made phone calls, can have some amazing power and influence...And if the media isnt brought into it, then the pollies can make some good changes...

[ving (David)]

so true trevor, so true!

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by casstony

It would be very important to me. If I was sprayed with water I'd think "bloody idiot". If I was sprayed with pesticide I'd be looking for compensation for potential health consequences.

A sample of the soil and of the clothes they were wearing presented in a plastic bag would quickly identify the substance in the spray .... that would be the first thing I'd do and I'd make sure the cops got the sample (as evidence of the crime).