IC5146 – The Cocoon Nebula

[rally]

Thanks for the G2V reference info Jase,

I was hoping it was going to be easier than that !

I'll store that away for later use !

Cheers

Rally

[jase (Jason)]

Originally Posted by Alchemy

Sure is tough at the top end of the imaging game, you know everyone is having a look with the fine toothed comb, but once again you have produced an image that is enjoyable to look at, i dont understand the fine details of the processing being a one shot color user, but the stars look good to me (not sure why you dont like them).

Cheers Clive. Yes, but as you indicate when you use top end gear, you expect top end results. My goal is to be limited by the equipment, not my own skill in processing - simple. I wasn't too happy with the way I managed the stars. I use two options to manage the stellar profiles, DDP and/or Curves. DDP is great providing you don't sharpen in the process. The preferred is to use curves. In this case I used curves only and didn't feel comfortable that I maintained their profile. I try ensure there is a radial gradient to them so color integration is soft. Doesn't always work that way. Thanks again for your comments.

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

....amazing close up that! Very nice work with that lill'ol 24" Jase

That was a nice short exposure and probably fairly affordable huh? Can't you please tell use the cost of taking it? Pleeeease? Would be very useful info

Mike

Cheers Mike. Yes, I enjoy the balance of working on both wide and narrow fields. The Cocoon suits both. I really like the vista of a wide field short of the region with the dust sweeping its way star field to the Cocoon. The up close and personal rendition presented here provides an interesting insight in this fascinating target. Certainly the first object I've acquired that has emission, reflective and absorption characteristics. Kind of cool to process too.

This image was well under $500. While more data would bring out the reflection nebulosity and cut down noise, its a good indication that when you've got aperture and serious sensitivity on your side, you don't need mega data (at high cost) to produce a pleasing result...just careful processing and some noise control techniques.

Originally Posted by Babalyon 5

Great image and excellent processing. So, the average cost of the image is $400ish just for the 2.5 hrs? Wow!!

Thanks Babalyon. Pleased you liked it. I'm interested to know what people would expect to pay to access a 24" F/8 RC with premium CCD camera and dark skies to boot. When you put this cost into perspective. I've probably saved money instead of the fuel costs travelling to a dark sky site and food etc. Interesting perspective... Thanks again.

Originally Posted by rally

Thanks for the G2V reference info Jase,

I was hoping it was going to be easier than that !

I'll store that away for later use !

Cheers

Rally

G2V is easy Rally. I've provided instructions on how I achieve the task a few times on these forums before - click here. Its not a difficult process, no different to learning how to drift align, auto guide or taking flats. Once you've done it a few times, you'll laugh at yourself when you realise how simple it is.

=====
Thanks All.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Certainly the first object I've acquired that has emission, reflective and absorption characteristics.

What do you mean you haven't imaged the Trifid..?

This image was well under $500. While more data would bring out the reflection nebulosity and cut down noise, its a good indication that when you've got aperture and serious sensitivity on your side, you don't need mega data (at high cost) to produce a pleasing result...just careful processing and some noise control techniques.

I agree under $500 isn't anymore than a night or two in a Sydney City hotel I guess...Still, not sure how the trouble'n strife would compare them...or I...returning to the room after a nice meal and a few drinks ...Hmmm that'd take it well over $500 then too huh? ...right! ponder, ponder, ponder......

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

.........Can't you please tell use the cost of taking it? Pleeeease? Would be very useful info

Mike

Don't sweat it Mike...The prices are on light buckets' website. I signed up, but have not taken the plunge yet....yet given the weather of late in Sydney...could be tempted yet !

But hey...'tis all relative....start my Airbus A380 course in October...$10k an hour should cover it

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Don't sweat it Mike...The prices are on light buckets' website. I signed up, but have not taken the plunge yet....yet given the weather of late in Sydney...could be tempted yet !

But hey...'tis all relative....start my Airbus A380 course in October...$10k an hour should cover it

Oh yeh I know, I didn't sign up but I've had a look at the prices too, I was just interested in how much more the imaging extra's would add to the cost ie pointing, framing, focusing, filter changes etc..? and it seems they add significantly..ah see always hiden costs in everything

Hope "you" don't have to pay for the A380 course?

Mike

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Hope "you" don't have to pay for the A380 course?

Mike

Streuth ! No way ! I think external customers pay around $70k but really have no idea about the real cost...as the dust is still settling......suffice to say, someone else is picking up he tab

[jase (Jason)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

What do you mean you haven't imaged the Trifid..?

Does a wide field count? Not sure how much absorption the Trifid has however...The Lightbuckets 24" RC with U42 camera is 20'x20' FOV, this is exactly the size of the trifid! Would fill the entire frame.Could be onto something, but it would be pretty low from Rodeo, NM.

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

I signed up, but have not taken the plunge yet....yet given the weather of late in Sydney...could be tempted yet !

Well I thought I'd never live the day to hear that given the recent discussions.

[avandonk]

What are you wasting your money on now? As I proudly showed them my new HA filter.

As they drive off in their $100k+ 4x4. Now worth $50K-. I felt very sad as they did not have a clue!

They did not even understand the rest. So how the hell can you justify a remote imaging system.

Just do what you can before it is too late.

Bert

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by jase

Well I thought I'd never live the day to hear that given the recent discussions.

While I still do not for a millisecond consider rent-a-scope to be a clear reflection of what I can/can't do with an astronomical imaging system...a big Mac sometimes suffices when you need a few calories, with fries and a coke...(humm...cloud cover continues to increase...) make that in a hurry

[Ric]

A wonderful image jase.

I have not seen much of this nebula but the way the billowing clouds of nebulosity jump out at you is fantastic.

Cheers

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Does a wide field count?

Sure does, that's a great image!

Not sure how much absorption the Trifid has however

Maaaaate! there's heaps! see: http://tinyurl.com/2augtz

...The Lightbuckets 24" RC with U42 camera is 20'x20' FOV, this is exactly the size of the trifid! Would fill the entire frame.Could be onto something, but it would be pretty low from Rodeo, NM.

It'd be high enough C'mon, whats another couple of nights accomodation in a Sydney hotel gunna matter?

[marc4darkskies (Marcus)]

Knock out image there Jase!!

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Don't sweat it Mike...The prices are on light buckets' website. I signed up, but have not taken the plunge yet....

Et tu, Brute!!!

.... and you already have a 14.5" RCOS !!

Ah HA!! ... I have a plan!! To feed your soon to be acquired, aperture fever driven rent-a-scope habit, how about I give you a few thousand $$ - that'll be enough for at least a 3 night rent-a-scope fix and, in return, I'll take your piddly, second hand, rarely used, spider web ridden 14.5 off your hands and put it to work! You probably won't need that fading, outdated PME much longer either - Sell that & you'll get a couple more nights worth!!!

Hey Jase - got any hardware for sale?

Cheers, Marcus

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Et tu, Brute!!!

.... and you already have a 14.5" RCOS !!

Yep....and I got the steak knife set! Complete with magnetic cloud bank!

[g__day (Matthew)]

I have a query with this. If I wanted to do the exact same thing as Jase - commercially do I :

1. book the scope same processing as Jase? or
2. am informed this has already been targeted with whatever parameters Jase used and offer to let me buy this from LB? or
3. As per point 2. but offer to let me buy this from Jase?

My point is Jase's shot is terrific (huge applause) but do LB own the data or does Jase and can they list what they have already imaged and offer to sell this for a reduced price?

[jase (Jason)]

Originally Posted by avandonk

What are you wasting your money on now? As I proudly showed them my new HA filter.

As they drive off in their $100k+ 4x4. Now worth $50K-. I felt very sad as they did not have a clue!

They did not even understand the rest. So how the hell can you justify a remote imaging system.

Just do what you can before it is too late.

Bert

Sad, but true Bert...sad but true.

Originally Posted by Ric

A wonderful image jase.

I have not seen much of this nebula but the way the billowing clouds of nebulosity jump out at you is fantastic.

Cheers

Thanks Ric! Much Appreciated.

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

It'd be high enough C'mon, whats another couple of nights accomodation in a Sydney hotel gunna matter?

Sorry Mike, not this time. M20 crosses the meridian at 33 degrees in Rodeo, NM. This is too low to do both the target and equipment any form of justice. I'll never say never, but its not on my target list for this year.

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

Knock out image there Jase!!

Thanks Marcus. Much appreciated.

Originally Posted by g__day

I have a query with this. If I wanted to do the exact same thing as Jase - commercially do I :

1. book the scope same processing as Jase? or
2. am informed this has already been targeted with whatever parameters Jase used and offer to let me buy this from LB? or
3. As per point 2. but offer to let me buy this from Jase?

My point is Jase's shot is terrific (huge applause) but do LB own the data or does Jase and can they list what they have already imaged and offer to sell this for a reduced price?

Matt,

1.
Yes, you need to "book" the scope. Plan your target in TheSky or similar - its important to have the right geographic locales so you know when the object rises and to plan with FOV indicators so you can determine how you want frame the object. You'll need to select a guide star in this process or use the feature "guidelock" which rotates the PIR until a suitable guide star is found - this will negate any framing decisions you have planned however. When booking, unless you're really keen to use the scope immediately, use the "Best Available" or "Later" options. For "Best Available" they have an automated scheduling service that looks at the imaging plan to determine the best time to acquire the data, factoring in the weather, object elevation along with other scheduled plans. TIP: You'll receive further discounts using the Best available option as it allows the LightBuckets team to have visibility of the imaging schedules and to plan usage accordingly.

2.
It doesn't make any difference if the object has already been imaged by someone else...as such you are not informed of this. There is no sharing of data between customers - even of the same target. Each customer pays for the data they acquire and as such own it in entirety unless specifically agreed otherwise. For example, the Helix nebula image, I have no rights on the data. Alvin Jeng acquired the data and maintains full rights. I simply processed the data with his permission and was also granted permission to upload it on to my website providing due credit. If I was approached by someone to use the image for a specific purpose, I would need to engage Alvin to confirm permission for such activities. On the other hand, the M27 and IC5146 data (shown here), I own in entirety having paid for them.

Read their support section - http://www.lightbuckets.com/support.php
"Who legally owns the image data from my imaging plan run?
You own the copyrights to your image data. LightBuckets respects the intellectual property rights of others. We claim no ownership rights in any image contained in any of your photo albums and will not share your images unless instructed by you or otherwise required by law or permitted under a separate agreement with you. When you share a photo album, you allow the recipients of that album to share and make that album and the photos in it available to others. Please note that under the Terms of Use, you do agree to allow LightBuckets to use your images for promotional purposes on the Site. For more information see the applicable Terms of Use."
BTW, their Album references are associated to creating an Album on their site. You can do that to host some of the images you process, but I prefer to use my own site.

3.
I'm not willing to part with my data, but if you're looking to cut costs, why don't you distribute the cost between a few imagers. The group can decide on the target and one of you can set it all up, then distribute the data. I believe LB have group accounts for universities etc. Jump on their forum and post a few questions. Just a word of warning, don't expect "glamorous" images without work. If you've never processed individual R,G,B,Ha or luminance fits files before, you may wish to practice before you make the jump.

I hope this information clarifies your questions.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Jase,

Thanks for your replies - this level of operation I would guess is maybe two years away from my level of experience. If I wanted to fast path my learning - I'm sure a few weeks with a highly skilled astronomer would get me there, but given their scarcity and my time poor life that's unlikely to happen soon!

But yes I could see group collaborations - from funding through to set up and image processing.

On my earlier question - if a third party offered hosting and fee'd access to others images (at an agreed on price point) - this might make some sense if users could opt in to submit their data. If someone said to you donate the data and well pay you $50 every time some one wants it - you might end up ahead on a good image run. Similarily if someone said here are targets already imaged, with quality data at $50, $100, $200 etc price points versus a cost of $700 to do it your self - that would be a great option.

If I really want that image - I could offer to pay Peter to collect it using LB and you to process it etc. If I am only end result motivated I don't care how the magic is done nor the equipment used - only end results.

I ponder if LB will get a third party firm to offer a image data hosting and re-sale facility then allow another third party to offer image processing - they could well be a market for this.