NGC7293 - The Helix Nebula

[Ric]

Blimey Jase, what a stunner. that is one impressive image. The detail that you've captured in those globules is wonderful.

I was going to post my attempt of the Helix in narrowband with the DSI II, I think I might leave it for a while now

[g__day (Matthew)]

Very, very impressive!

[Gama]

Originally Posted by Bassnut

..... who gives a stuff how a member collects the data to for an image to show here (its not a competition), the more variety the better, .....

Actually if you read the earlier posts, you find that it is.
To win an award, you need to compete, and this is what is being discussed.

The rules need to be clearly set for competing, as Mike said earlier, there is an disadvantage when data used is of high quality and there was no effort in producing it.

Plus i think you hit the nail on the coffin Mike, Amatuer means just that, no payments of any kind.
Bit like getting some one to make up all the parts of a mount professionally and you just assemble it and then enter it in an Amatuer building contest.
Like Mike said, there has been no effort put towards the build, yet again, i just cant seem to make a call here, as Jase did process the data.

Theo.

[jase (Jason)]

Thanks for your comments Bert, Theo and Mike… Though Mike... I think you need to expand your mind a little. Indeed these forums are for amateurs (don’t tell me you’re call me a professional based solely on this image?)…it just so happens that a 24” RC is now available to amateurs who choose to use such equipment…so what’s the problem? How about putting that AP155/FLI-PL combo on a robotic PME and selling some telescope time to the masses. That would make a good professional research grade imaging rig, which would be out of the league for many to buy outright – just like the 24” RC. I’ll buy some time from you if can provide the access.

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Very nice Jase, a pleasure to view a top quality narrow field Helix. The zoomy bits in the middle came out very well and detailed, a treat. Yes, I found SII (and OIII) hard to stretch on this, as Peter says the surface brightness is very low.

Dont listen to Mike, who gives a stuff how a member collects the data to for an image to show here (its not a competition), the more variety the better, I certainly enjoy something different, especially when its of this quality. To see results of IIS member processing skills off different equipments is half the fun.

Cheers Fred. Yes, the SII data wasn’t the best to work with. Blending in some Ha certainly assisted. There were no issues with the OIII data, it was quite strong…especially the upper region where the some of the main cometary globs are located. I fully agree that processing data sets from different instruments is fun, even of the same target. I've got one other rendition of this data set as the HOS palette. I didn't find the OIII mapped as green very aesthetic. Ah, Mike means well, life wouldn't be fun without healthy debate and opinions.

Originally Posted by Phil

Hi Jase
Bloody hell look like its taken with the Hubble well done mate.

Thanks Phil. Pleased you liked it mate!

Originally Posted by Ric

Blimey Jase, what a stunner. that is one impressive image. The detail that you've captured in those globules is wonderful.

I was going to post my attempt of the Helix in narrowband with the DSI II, I think I might leave it for a while now

Cheers Ric! Don't let this image hold you back from posting. All images are unique and interesting in their own right. We often get caught up with what we expect the object to look like based on images produced by others. Narrowband images in particular provides the freedom to express what the imager has in mind...vastly different to traditional RGB. Thanks for your comments.

Originally Posted by g__day

Very, very impressive!

Thanks Matt.

====
Thanks to all those who have taken the time to view and make comment.

Cheers

[Jeffkop (Jeff)]

Wish I knew more about this whole subject to provide you another objective point of view from the technical aspect ... So all I can say is .. "AWESOME IMAGE" .. and I dont care from where it all came from OR that I cant at this stage offer any more comment than that.

If I can log into my "local" astro-forum and view an obviously very professional quality picture then more's my luck !!!

My experience at IceInSpace is enriched by the visual plethora presented in all its forms and my knowledge base is extended by the forum members.

Keep'em coming Jase

[Peter Ward]

Jase...clearly a great image. But to be frank, (you can take it ) not as good as I would have expected from a 24” RC in pristine skies with a back illuminated CCD. (hey.. I image from crap skies with a similar, albeit smaller...50% smaller... back illuminated rig, so feel just a little qualified to comment thusly....)

I suspect the decision to bin the data 2x2 for extra signal gain, while still giving good sampling also did not allow significant oversampling: with a view to heavier de-convolution...i.e. an image with a little more “snap”

But I have to ask..why narrow band? RGB gives such cool colours within the Helix. A personal choice to be sure, but unless you want to make a science statement, natural beauty sometimes suffices.

None the less... the result is clearly in the imaging stratosphere. Your image processing is excellent.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

[quote=Bassnut;354672]

Dont listen to Mike, [quote]

Have another Southern Comfort hey?

Mike

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

[quote=Peter Ward;354807]Jase...clearly a great image. But to be frank, (you can take it ) not as good as I would have expected from a 24” RC in pristine skies with a back illuminated CCD. (hey.. I image from crap skies with a similar, albeit smaller...50% smaller... back illuminated rig, so feel just a little qualified to comment thusly....)

I suspect the decision to bin the data 2x2 for extra signal gain, while still giving good sampling also did not allow significant oversampling: with a view to heavier de-convolution...i.e. an image with a little more “snap”

But I have to ask..why narrow band? RGB gives such cool colours within the Helix. A personal choice to be sure, but unless you want to make a science statement, natural beauty sometimes suffices.

[quote]

Oh for F'sake Peter why go on with all that f'ing bull crap? Deconvolution is for fakes, it is a great image and you are just jealous!

Why narrow band???...Jeeeesus!

Just admit it, it is a fantastic image!

Mike

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

Very nice Jase,

I don't often browse here, but I'm glad I did!!!

Remote imaging is the future of amateur astronomy - we are finally getting access to the instruments we deserve, and using them we can drive forward 'the science' en masse.

For me, it matters not who owns/sets up the equipment - the skill is in the photography. But don't get me wrong, if you are using the best, then it has to be a damn good image

Keep it up !

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by jase

Though Mike... I think you need to expand your mind a little. Indeed these forums are for amateurs (don’t tell me you’re call me a professional based solely on this image?)…it just so happens that a 24” RC is now available to amateurs who choose to use such equipment…so what’s the problem? How about putting that AP155/FLI-PL combo on a robotic PME and selling some telescope time to the masses. That would make a good professional research grade imaging rig, which would be out of the league for many to buy outright – just like the 24” RC. I’ll buy some time from you if can provide the access.

I don't need to expand my mind at all but thanks for the suggestion

Why would you buy time on a 6" APO when you have a $500,000 24" robotic RC at your disposal???

Hey, by the way, I am going to access the UK Schmidt (I have the money and the contacts now) to gather some data on some faint Cirrus around the SCP, I should be able to produce a really nice amateur image with this equipment too...

Mike

[jase (Jason)]

Originally Posted by Jeffkop

Wish I knew more about this whole subject to provide you another objective point of view from the technical aspect ... So all I can say is .. "AWESOME IMAGE" .. and I dont care from where it all came from OR that I cant at this stage offer any more comment than that.

If I can log into my "local" astro-forum and view an obviously very professional quality picture then more's my luck !!!

My experience at IceInSpace is enriched by the visual plethora presented in all its forms and my knowledge base is extended by the forum members.

Keep'em coming Jase

Thanks Jeff. No need for technical critic - the image is what it is. Pleased you liked it though.

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Jase...clearly a great image. But to be frank, (you can take it ) not as good as I would have expected from a 24” RC in pristine skies with a back illuminated CCD. (hey.. I image from crap skies with a similar, albeit smaller...50% smaller... back illuminated rig, so feel just a little qualified to comment thusly....)

I suspect the decision to bin the data 2x2 for extra signal gain, while still giving good sampling also did not allow significant oversampling: with a view to heavier de-convolution...i.e. an image with a little more “snap”

But I have to ask..why narrow band? RGB gives such cool colours within the Helix. A personal choice to be sure, but unless you want to make a science statement, natural beauty sometimes suffices.

None the less... the result is clearly in the imaging stratosphere. Your image processing is excellent.

Cheers Peter. So the 24" RC with back illuminated CCD and dark skies is not as good as you expected eh?...Did you give any thought as to where the Helix is from Rodeo, New Mexico? I should add that it crosses the meridian at 40 degrees. Enough said. I'm collecting data for another target which I feel will show its capabilities - just waiting for the monsoon season to finish before I complete the data acquisition.

At 1x1, .57 arcsecs, the data is indeed oversampled and would need some heavy deconv work. 2x2 delivered what I believe better sampling considering the target. Why not narrowband? I think narrow fields go well with narrowband. Thanks again for your comments.

Originally Posted by AstroJunk

Very nice Jase,

I don't often browse here, but I'm glad I did!!!

Remote imaging is the future of amateur astronomy - we are finally getting access to the instruments we deserve, and using them we can drive forward 'the science' en masse.

For me, it matters not who owns/sets up the equipment - the skill is in the photography. But don't get me wrong, if you are using the best, then it has to be a damn good image

Keep it up !

Thanks AstroJunk. Couldn't agree more with your note on remote imaging. It will progressively become the new world order as our suburban skies get brighter and brighter. Thanks for checking the image out - pleased you liked it.

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

I don't need to expand my mind at all but thanks for the suggestion

Why would you buy time on a 6" APO when you have a $500,000 24" robotic RC at your disposal???

Hey, by the way, I am going to access the UK Schmidt (I have the money and the contacts now) to gather some data on some faint Cirrus around the SCP, I should be able to produce a really nice amateur image with this equipment too...

Mike

Simply, different targets require different instruments. The 24" RC is great for deep space work, but if I wanted to use it to image the pelican nebula, I'd need to perform a mosaic. Clearly, it comes back to what you are trying to achieve with the equipment and target combination. I've bought time on a remotely controlled FSQ before (and I actually own one, so go figure), so I can't see why I wouldn't want access to a 6" APO to nail some targets. Look forward to seeing your faint Cirrus post here.

[prova]

Superb Jase.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Oh for F'sake Peter why go on with all that f'ing bull crap? Deconvolution is for fakes, it is a great image and you are just jealous!

Why narrow band???...Jeeeesus!

Just admit it, it is a fantastic image!

Mike

Mike, BS? what BS?
Suggest you re-read the last line of my post.... the stratosphere bit..... I think I made it plain that I thought Jase’s image processing was on the money. I would have done it in RGB and not binned for reasons I stated...and Jase made his choices, with a great end result.

As to whether image de-convolution is a valid post processing technique......I suggest you take that up with the high-res planetary imaging specialists on ISS.

The only thing I am jealous of is not being able to be at home often enough to use the gear I do have. ( I can see Jase champing at the bit here...urging me to pull my finger out and finally set-up my system for remote access )

Though I didn’t comment earlier, I have no problem with amateur astronomers using large aperture remote telescopes to acquire first class data. Some very remarkable imagery will no doubt continue to appear here and elsewhere using this technology.

I prefer a more hands on approach, and enjoy the challenge of personally getting the equipment choices I have made to perform at their optimum to produce good data in less than ideal skies.

[leon]

Jase I know I'm a bit late here to comment, as all has been said, now I know why you only produce an image every no and then.

I must take you a long time to come down to earth, so to speak.

I have never seen anything like it, a truly beautiful Helix, top stuff.

Leon

[Bassnut (Fred)]

Originally Posted by Gama

Actually if you read the earlier posts, you find that it is.
To win an award, you need to compete, and this is what is being discussed.

The rules need to be clearly set for competing, as Mike said earlier, there is an disadvantage when data used is of high quality and there was no effort in producing it.

Plus i think you hit the nail on the coffin Mike, Amatuer means just that, no payments of any kind.
Bit like getting some one to make up all the parts of a mount professionally and you just assemble it and then enter it in an Amatuer building contest.
Like Mike said, there has been no effort put towards the build, yet again, i just cant seem to make a call here, as Jase did process the data.

Theo.

OK Theo, some post with a competitive spirit, buts thats all in this case. The competition thing has been done to death, doesnt need to be mentioned on every quality post . Lightbuckets was given due mention as expected, and anyway processing is more than half the effort. So you just view the image, marvel at the variety of skills it took to present it, its visual quality and be pleased with the experience .

Mike

"Have another Southern Comfort hey?", ummm, no?. "Deconvolution is for fakes" Whaaa? I had never considered, or heard of such a notion, whys that Mike?. Its the one tool that pulls my LX200 shots up to a standard to be proud of, what make decov something to deride?.

Peter

I must say, of all the NB nebs ive done, Helix is the one that IMO looks "better" in RGB, Jase has done well to make Helix look that attractive in NB, they usually dont.

[EzyStyles (Eric)]

excellent work Jase . Colours are exactly identical to the hubbles and the detail is up there too!

[JohnH]

Originally Posted by AstroJunk

...Remote imaging is the future of amateur astronomy...

Oh I hope not. Surely the next step would then be not to gather the data at all but simply google for some raws to collate and process. In fact there is a group that does that already I believe using the 2ds survey data and processing it to basically "colour it in". Dot to dot anyone?

Just my 2c worth but I like using my scope - and I even look through it sometimes!

[RB (Andrew)]

Oh what a joy it is to view your work my friend.

Just stunning Jase !

[jase (Jason)]

Originally Posted by prova

Superb Jase.

Thanks Mark!

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

The only thing I am jealous of is not being able to be at home often enough to use the gear I do have. ( I can see Jase champing at the bit here...urging me to pull my finger out and finally set-up my system for remote access )

You read my mind Peter. We briefly spoke about this at CWAS. Shouldn't be too hard. You simply need to get your other half a little "scope savvy", so that she becomes your ground support. Though, as you mentioned at the time, she would not be too impressed to receive a support call at 2am asking for the PIR to be realigned or something similar.. On another note...When is Rene going to update the Gemini code to support absolute encoders??...

Originally Posted by leon

Jase I know I'm a bit late here to comment, as all has been said, now I know why you only produce an image every no and then.

I must take you a long time to come down to earth, so to speak.

I have never seen anything like it, a truly beautiful Helix, top stuff.

Leon

Thanks Leon. Never too late. Appreciate the kind words.

Originally Posted by EzyStyles

excellent work Jase . Colours are exactly identical to the hubbles and the detail is up there too!

Cheers Eric. I used the same hubble palette - SII:Ha:OIII - so one would expect so. The trick is to not weight the Ha very high otherwise it will dominate the image. Thanks again...and Happy Birthday too.

Originally Posted by RB

Oh what a joy it is to view your work my friend.

Just stunning Jase !

Cheers Andrew. Its a long time between posts, but its the quality not quantity I'm after.

=========

Thanks again. Your comments and support are appreciated.

Cheers

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

As to whether image de-convolution is a valid post processing technique......I suggest you take that up with the high-res planetary imaging specialists on ISS.

I know, decon is ok, I was just having a go at all the "buts" in your post that was all

The only thing I am jealous of is not being able to be at home often enough to use the gear I do have. ( I can see Jase champing at the bit here...urging me to pull my finger out and finally set-up my system for remote access )

Yes it must drive you made not imaging much with that incredible gear, must be heartbreaking that it is in Sydney too?

Though I didn’t comment earlier, I have no problem with amateur astronomers using large aperture remote telescopes to acquire first class data. Some very remarkable imagery will no doubt continue to appear here and elsewhere using this technology.

Let me be very clear, unless it appears in an amateur imaging contest, I have no problem with the practise either, truly! the results are amazing indeed but since it has been topical lately and Jase enters them I thought Jases Helix was a great example of what shouldn't be considered amateur in the context of an amateur imaging contest. I love the work some amateur guys are doing using proffessional observatories, I just don't think it is fair to allow it to be entered in an amateur imaging contest that's all, a rather simple concept really?

I prefer a more hands on approach, and enjoy the challenge of personally getting the equipment choices I have made to perform at their optimum to produce good data in less than ideal skies.

Yes, a hard task and you will never get the performance out of it that you could...how about moving it to a remote lcation and well you know...