Japanese Company Genapax reveals Car that runs on Water.

[netwolf]

This is just brilliant, finally the fuel crisis is generating some outcomes. Its more than likely that most of this technology was shelved under Oil Company pressures but now its coming out due to the outrageous prices of Fuel.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/13/g...-cell-vehicle/

They think they can get the mass production cost down to 5000$. That's quite reasonable. What do you guys think about this.

Regards
Fahim

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Excellent - but why have they got Jason from Friday the 13th driving it!?

[tornado33]

one minor problem. Breaking H20 into Hydrogen and Oxygen requires at least the same energy input as that released when burning the hydrogen or using it in a fuel cell. Then theres the problem of storing gaseous or liquid hydrogen.

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by tornado33

one minor problem. Breaking H20 into Hydrogen and Oxygen requires at least the same energy input as that released when burning the hydrogen or using it in a fuel cell. Then theres the problem of storing gaseous or liquid hydrogen.

Cmon, with a cool name like Genapax it must be true.......

Paul

[peter brown]

if something sounds too good to be true...it usually is

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

...yeah,but the hockey mask, the hockey mask!!!!!

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Netwolf - in the discussion in your link, one guy suggests peeing in the tank for fuel!!! Now that's innovation!

ps..sorry for lowering the tone! If this is for real and cost effective - Thank God (whichever one tickles your fancy)!!!

[GrahamL]

one guy suggests peeing in the tank for fuel!!! Now that's innovation!

They will need to widen the fuel fill on all cars to 4" across to make that work though doug

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by nightstalker

They will need to widen the fuel fill on all cars to 4" across to make that work though doug

Of course Graham!!!

[renormalised (Carl)]

They've had the technology to run cars on water since the 50's-60's, yet they've done nothing about it. The big petrochemical companies and their government cronies had all the plans shelved, for the most part. Just so they could keep up their profit margins. No thought for the planet or the people....or even their oil reserves.

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by renormalised

They've had the technology to run cars on water since the 50's-60's, yet they've done nothing about it. The big petrochemical companies and their government cronies had all the plans shelved, for the most part. Just so they could keep up their profit margins. No thought for the planet or the people....or even their oil reserves.

The americans could not even keep the atom bomb a secret from he russians or the chinese, but they could keep water fuel a secret? Give me a break.

The chinese and indians have such a high demand for fuel they would use a technology like this in a second, if it existed. So it doesnt.

Paul

[Ian Robinson]

I've seen bigger shopping trolleys.

When they come out with a 3.2 or 3.5 litre water powered engineer that I can exchange for my old 3 litre petrol engine in my Pajero , I'll be interested.

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

Get ready to ante up some day soon Ian, Perth has been running (EDIT) hydrogen fuel cell powered buses since 2004. This is using stored hydrogen as a fuel currently, not an on board conversion from water. (END EDIT)

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1215269.htm

While the system isn't perfect yet it's getting closer each day as they explore new methods of obtaining clean H2 from non-greenhouse producing sources, solar looks like being the biggest likelihood here in Australia.

(ADDITION) You can buy a small scale fuel cell car with "solar powered refuelling station" that makes hydrogen from water from Jaycar right now for under $200.

" * TIME Magazine product of the year *

Hydrogen fuel cells promise a viable alternative to fossil fuel-guzzling cars. No combustion occurs inside a fuel cell - all you need for the H-Racer is water and sunshine. The fuel cell converts hydrogen and oxygen into electricity. The palm-size car has an on-board hydrogen storage tank, a fuel cell system connected to the car’s electric motor, and a hydrogen refuelling system linking the car’s storage tank to the solar-powered refuelling station. The H-Racer is also very safe as only tiny quantities of hydrogen are needed to power the car. Today, many of the world’s car manufacturers including Toyota, Ford and Honda are developing hydrogen fuel cell vehicles with the hope of introducing this technology in the near future. "
(from http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KT2529 )
manufacturers website : http://www.thamesandkosmos.com/products/fc/fc2.html

(END ADDITION)

I reckon if they can power a bus (EDIT) and have it convert hydrogen from water on board(END EDIT) your Pajero isn't a hard target at all.

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by Gargoyle_Steve

Get ready to ante up some day soon Ian, Perth has been running hydrogen fuel cell / water powered buses since 2004. While the system isn't perfect yet it's getting closer each day as they explore new methods of obtaining clean H2 from non-greenhouse producing sources, solar looks like being the biggest likelihood here in Australia.

I reckon if they can power a bus your Pajero isn't a hard target at all.

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1215269.htm

It's not a water powered bus, it's a hydrogen powered bus. The amount of energy that was required and pollution caused by making the hydrogen to fill the bus was far more than if the bus was a petrol powered V16.

Paul

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

You are of course correct Paul and so to clarify the situation I have edited and added information to my original post above, clearly showing where I have done so, to maintain accuracy and alsoto promote the view point that I had originally intended, that is that such things are not only becoming possible now, today, but that the foundation work has been in progress for some time, and to avoid giving a misleading angle to my post.


Could you please explain the calculations behind "The amount of energy that was required and pollution caused by making the hydrogen to fill the bus was far more than if the bus was a petrol powered V16" or was it (at best) a very rough guess with no actual mathematics involved?

[Zuts]

Hi,

The best that can be said about it is that it probably uses as much energy as that used to produce the energy to power an electric car. It's still dirty in the same way as an electric power station is dirty.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_production

Nothing is free. To produce the energy required to run a bus is more than the actual energy expended in running the bus. Most buses have great big engines, so a V16 expenditure to produce the energy to run the bus is not unreasonable at 80% efficiency at best in producing the energy in the first place.

Paul

[CoombellKid]

Originally Posted by renormalised

They've had the technology to run cars on water since the 50's-60's, yet they've done nothing about it. The big petrochemical companies and their government cronies had all the plans shelved, for the most part. Just so they could keep up their profit margins. No thought for the planet or the people....or even their oil reserves.

Didn't they do the same thing with lightbulbs

Btw Graham and Doug....4"??? a real mans **** wouldn't fit

regards,CS

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

Originally Posted by Zuts

The best that can be said about it is that it probably uses as much energy as that used to produce the energy to power an electric car. It's still dirty in the same way as an electric power station is dirty.

I acknowledge that, it's fact at this point, but people ARE working on it - HAVE made it work on small scale - and todays fact is tomorrow's history.

It isn't science fiction at all to consider that we could have vehicles larger than the one this thread was started about on the roads in the very near future. The Japs already claim to have this small size car working, it may be very small steps that lead to full blown vehicle production on the sort of scale we'd all like to see happen.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Originally Posted by Zuts

The americans could not even keep the atom bomb a secret from he russians or the chinese, but they could keep water fuel a secret? Give me a break.

The chinese and indians have such a high demand for fuel they would use a technology like this in a second, if it existed. So it doesnt.

Paul

How dogmatic can you be...that Paul, is a dangerous way to be.

It's not that they kept the technology secret...that they couldn't do. The petrochemical companies, with the help of the politicians they have in their hip pockets, basically tied up the patents and such for the engines and never bothered to make them. It's quite easy to acquire an invention/patent and then lock it away in a bank vault or company safe.

I'll give you an example. A friend of my father's, Arthur Glenn, designed a new type of carburetor (back in the 60's) that allowed him to travel from Sydney to Wollongong and back, on about a third of a cup of fuel (petrol) in a 3 ton Dodge truck. Know what happened to that??....BP bought the patent off of him, promising to look into putting it into production. Instead, they locked the patent and the plans away in their offices in the UK and that was the last anyone ever heard of the design.

Anyway....Genapax. Sounds more like a pharmaceutical company than an engineering/manufacturing firm

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by CoombellKid

Btw Graham and Doug....4"??? a real mans **** wouldn't fit

regards,CS

Ouch!! Way to kick us in the Ego Rob!!!