Go Back   IceInSpace > General Astronomy > General Chat
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #21  
Old 21-04-2008, 08:08 PM
Alchemy (Clive)
Quietly watching

Alchemy is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Yarra Junction
Posts: 3,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward View Post



Don't care?

And so we get the politicians we deserve....
as for the laser debate, ultimately i can live with it, i rolled over when they changed the gun laws and gave them up..... but heres something i do care about, with particular reference to the above quote......... you want to be a republic..... yep give them total power, the one little used power to be completely severed so they can have total power. And joe average will be completely conned, oh yeah a holiday bit of flag waving....( mind you not the one i grew up with or generations died for). Mark my words for future reference you will get NOTHING. a bag full of political promises, and once its in you cant vote it out. i reckon they will do it just before the next election, Of course people can be bought with a tax deduction, (which gets to go on the mortgage as they up the interest rates), shows how gullible we are.

And so we get the polititians we deserve.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 21-04-2008, 08:09 PM
Babalyon 5
Registered User

Babalyon 5 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 181
Not sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by dugnsuz View Post
How are these laws going to apply to laser collimators and similar low level output devices?

Any ideas - too early to tell!?
Not sure, as Im in SA as well and my collimator is in the dreaded Class 3a. Trying to did up some more info from ASSA.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 21-04-2008, 09:08 PM
Outbackmanyep's Avatar
Outbackmanyep
Registered User

Outbackmanyep is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Walcha , NSW
Posts: 1,652
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
i cant see the legislation doing that much, ban guns and only criminals will have guns.

a licence is attainable although it could be a hassle, and for those wanting such can do this.

Of course it annoys me we need a licence/ permit to do just about anything these days,

Go fishing from a beach,
cut down a tree
own a dog,
put in a driveway,
build a dam,
own a gun,
run a chook raffle,
build a shed
have a fire
own a cat
use communication equipment (shortwave etc)
fill the dam you just built,
own a car that can be used on the road ( registration required)
Collect swords
use laser pointers
keep native birds (have done wildlife rescue)


theres talk of people who collect rainwater needing to pay a fee ( hasnt happened yet.

Next they willl charge us to breathe

good to have gripe every now and then, it still is a good place to live in compared to zimbabwe, and other such places though.

Not only is the laser ban ridiculous when you have high profile people out there not being charged for possession and use of illicit drugs and they don't even see a court room really leaves a lot to be desired!

Once again the Law and Govts have got it wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 21-04-2008, 10:05 PM
Rodstar's Avatar
Rodstar (Rod)
The Glenfallus

Rodstar is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Central Coast, NSW
Posts: 2,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward View Post
Sorry Rod....you are mistaken....this has been covered elsewhere on ISS....the science was indeed lacking.
That does not accord with what I have read. For example:

http://www.ophthalmologyweb.com/News...13&headerid=23

I am assuming that legislators are primarily concerned about direct damage at close range from a laser pointer. As a father of three kids under 10, I would not want a laser pointer lying around for the kids to play with.....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 21-04-2008, 10:08 PM
AstralTraveller's Avatar
AstralTraveller (David)
Registered User

AstralTraveller is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 3,820
This discussion is split between two threads. I've posted some thoughts on
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d=1#post318130

Any comments?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 21-04-2008, 10:16 PM
Omaroo's Avatar
Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)
Let there be night...

Omaroo is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Hobart, TAS
Posts: 7,639
Quote:
Originally Posted by fringe_dweller View Post
yeah one thing we arent allowed to do is invade foriegn countries willy nilly on false pretences and then nearly send your country broke paying for it they should ban that maybe?
I wasn't referring to American visitors, they were Finnish. What's your point?

Last edited by Omaroo; 21-04-2008 at 10:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 21-04-2008, 10:17 PM
astroron's Avatar
astroron (Ron)
Supernova Searcher

astroron is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cambroon Queensland Australia
Posts: 9,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodstar View Post
That does not accord with what I have read. For example:

http://www.ophthalmologyweb.com/News...13&headerid=23

I am assuming that legislators are primarily concerned about direct damage at close range from a laser pointer. As a father of three kids under 10, I would not want a laser pointer lying around for the kids to play with.....

They are not worried about close range! they are worried about aircraft, I have not seen one article mentioning close range or children.
As I have said in one of my previous posts it is just a bloody big beat up to get Iemma and his government of the hook with his dodgy politicians
Ron
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 21-04-2008, 10:18 PM
AstralTraveller's Avatar
AstralTraveller (David)
Registered User

AstralTraveller is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 3,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodstar View Post
That does not accord with what I have read. For example:

http://www.ophthalmologyweb.com/News...13&headerid=23

I am assuming that legislators are primarily concerned about direct damage at close range from a laser pointer. As a father of three kids under 10, I would not want a laser pointer lying around for the kids to play with.....
The regulators were concerned about direct damage. The current controversy is about idiots pointing them at planes and the potential consequences.

Concerning safety, I can see your point of view. I certainly wouldn't have one lying around. However lets keep the findings in that article in perspective. A Class IIIa laser caused damage in 60s and with a Class IIIb "Functional damage could occur within seconds." Could you imaging trying to keep your eye on one of those lasers for even a second? Your reflexes wouldn't allow it. As the doctor said: "This is a potential hazard to people's eyes, but rarely is it going to be a practical hazard because the aversion reflex we have naturally will cause a person to blink or turn away from a laser light."
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 21-04-2008, 10:30 PM
dugnsuz's Avatar
dugnsuz (Doug)
Registered User

dugnsuz is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hahndorf, South Australia
Posts: 4,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodstar View Post
That does not accord with what I have read. For example:

http://www.ophthalmologyweb.com/News...13&headerid=23

I am assuming that legislators are primarily concerned about direct damage at close range from a laser pointer. As a father of three kids under 10, I would not want a laser pointer lying around for the kids to play with.....
Hi Rod, i know your question is for PW but this quote bangs a hole in any argument...

Mayo Clinic ophthalmologists have found commercially available Class 3A green laser pointers can cause visible harm to the eye's retina with exposures as short as 60 seconds.

If someone is shining a laser at me - my eye's shut in less than 60 seconds!
Class 3A being 1-5mW, now Andrews Comms sells 10,30 and 50mW lasers.
So proportionally I wouldn't want them shone in my eye for anything up to 6 seconds - but once again, that's never going to happen unless I'm held down and tortured Clockwork Orange-style - and that only lies within the remit of the government trying to ban the lasers in the first place!
Your kids are safe - trust me
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 21-04-2008, 10:47 PM
Peter Ward's Avatar
Peter Ward
Galaxy hitchhiking guide

Peter Ward is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugnsuz View Post
Hi Rod, i know your question is for PW but this quote bangs a hole in any argument...

Mayo Clinic ophthalmologists have found commercially available Class 3A green laser pointers can cause visible harm to the eye's retina with exposures as short as 60 seconds.

that's never going to happen unless I'm held down and tortured Clockwork Orange-style - and that only lies within the remit of the government trying to ban the lasers in the first place!
Your kids are safe - trust me
Ditto.

Also the flux of *any* battery operated laser directed to a height
at which aircraft fly, even on approach, is trivial. Typically, less than 2/100th of a milliwatt.

As for having a Class 3 laser lying around for kids to play with....give me a break...you'd let them play with razor blades too?

Parental responsibility comes to mind....
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 21-04-2008, 11:09 PM
tornado33
Registered User

tornado33 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,116
Gee wouldnt I have had authorities in a spin if I did what I thought about trying once, where I saw a 7 watt IR laser diode on Ebay, then add a BIBO crystal and I could have had a blue laser of sevral FULL WATTS power! Gee it would make a great astronomy pointer
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 21-04-2008, 11:09 PM
ngcles's Avatar
ngcles
The Observologist

ngcles is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Billimari, NSW Central West
Posts: 1,664
Doing it legally

Hi All,

It would appear on the face of the reports in todays media (once the Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 and the regulations thereto have been suitably amended and proclaimed) that Class III or IV Laser pointers will be declared Prohibited Weapons.

Rather than commenting further on the rights and wrongs of that decision, I thought I'd look at the implications it has on amateur astronomers and how one might comply with the legislation (if you choose to do so). I am forced to do so because for me it is a "tool-of-trade" as I work at Sydney Observatory as a night guide. It should be noted that this only applies after the Schedule to the Act has been amended, proclaimed and commenced.

You should carefully note that the material below is not intended as "legal advice" but it is provided for the purposes of information and education. You should obtain proper independent legal advice.

The Weapons Prohibition Act 1998 by virtue of Schedule 1 to the Act declares certain items and implements to be Prohibited Weapons. Some common examples of these items includes flick-knives, crossbows, knuckle-dusters etc. It would appear these will soon include Class III and Class IV Hand-held Laser Pointers.

For completeness, Schedule 1 to the Act is found here:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...8231/sch1.html


Under Section 7 of the Act, Possession or use (without a permit) of a Prohibited Weapon is punishable on summary conviction with a maximum penalty of 100 penalty units or 2 years imprisonment or both. It is also punishable on indictment (extremely, extremely rare) by 14 years imprisonment.

Section 7 is here:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...998231/s7.html

The Commissioner for Police is authorised to issue a permit for possession and use of a prohibited weapon under Part 2 of the Act. The Commissioner must be satisfied under Section 11 of the Act that the person has a "genuine reason" for needing the permit to possess and use. Examples provided in the Section include scientific purposes: The applicant must demonstrate that the prohibited weapon for which the permit is sought is required for legitimate scientific purposes. At this stage the further enlargement under the Regulations would not seem to cover the activities of Amateur Astronomers. However, the Commissioner's discretion is not limited to the examples in Section 11 and may use his discretion so long as the reason is "genuine".

Section 11 is reproduced here::

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...98231/s11.html


Section 10 sets out that persons who have been convicted of certain offences are disqualified from holding a permit:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...98231/s10.html


Which is further expanded upon by the regulations below (later).


Assuming a permit is issued, the permit holder is required by Section 26 to ensure the safe keeping of the weapon.

Section 26 is reproduced here:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...98231/s26.html

And this is enlarged upon in Regulation 11. The applicant for a permit must be able to show both the ability for safekeeping and knowledge of the safety requirements:

11 Applicant’s understanding of storage and safety requirements

(1) The Commissioner must not issue a permit unless the Commissioner is satisfied of the following matters:
(a) that the applicant is aware of, and understands, any applicable requirements of the Act and this Regulation in relation to the storage and safe keeping of prohibited weapons,
(b) that the applicant will, if issued with a permit, be able to comply with those requirements.
(2) For the purposes of subclause (1) (b), the Commissioner may order an inspection by a police officer (in accordance with such arrangements as are agreed on by the applicant and the Commissioner) of the proposed storage site for a prohibited weapon. The fee payable for such an inspection is specified in clause 35 (1) (c).

By virtue of Regulation 37, A person must notify the Commissioner of the loss, theft or destruction of a weapon:

37 Notification of lost, stolen or destroyed prohibited weapons

A person to whom a permit has been issued must, within 24 hours after becoming aware that any prohibited weapon to which the permit relates has been lost, stolen or destroyed, notify the Commissioner in writing of that loss, theft or destruction.

Maximum penalty: 50 penalty units.


A number of persons are declared as ineligible for the issue of a permit, or a permit may be revoked if the Commissioner of Police has made a "Weapons Prohibition Order" against the person or if the person is the subject of an "Apprehended Violence Order" (including interim orders). Further there are other strictures placed on the Commissioner not to issue a permit under the Regulation 5 as below. The convictions for the following offences will disqualify a person from holding a permit :

For the purposes of section 10 (3) (a) of the Act, the following offences are prescribed offences:

Part 2 General provisions relating to permits

5 Offences that disqualify applicants

For the purposes of section 10 (3) (a) of the Act, the following offences are prescribed offences:
(a) Offences relating to firearms or weapons
An offence relating to the possession or use of a firearm, or any other weapon, committed under:
(i) the law of any Australian jurisdiction, or
(ii) the law of any overseas jurisdiction (being an offence that, had it been committed in Australia, would be an offence under the law of an Australian jurisdiction).
(b) Offences relating to prohibited plants or drugs
An offence in respect of a prohibited plant or drug committed under:
(i) the law of any Australian jurisdiction, or
(ii) the law of any overseas jurisdiction (being an offence that, had it been committed in Australia, would be an offence under the law of an Australian jurisdiction).
(c) Offences involving violence
An offence committed under the law of any Australian or overseas jurisdiction:
(i) involving the infliction (or attempted infliction) of actual bodily harm to another person, and
(ii) in respect of which, either the convicted person has been sentenced to penal servitude or imprisonment for 28 days or more, or a penalty of $200 or more has been imposed on the person.
(d) Offences involving organised criminal groups and recruitment
An offence committed under section 93IK or 351A of the Crimes Act 1900.

The method by which one obtains a permit is outlined by the Weapons Prohibition Regulations 1999. The general requirements for the application are set out in Regulation 6:

Application for permit
(1) In making an application for a permit (including a duplicate permit), the applicant must do either of the following:
(a) send the application to the following address:
NSW Firearms Registry
Locked Bag 2000
Peakhurst 2210
(b) lodge the application in such other manner as may be approved.
(2) An application for a permit must provide the following information:
(a) the type, and number, of prohibited weapons proposed to be authorised under the permit,
(b) the purpose or purposes for which each such weapon is required,
(c) the arrangements for the storage and safe keeping of each such weapon (including particulars of the premises at which each such weapon is to be stored or kept).
(3) An application for a permit that confers authority on persons (in addition to the permit holder) who are specified in the permit must provide the following information in respect of each additional person proposed to be specified in the permit:
(a) full name,
(b) residential address,
(c) date of birth,
(d) employee authority number (if applicable).

As to fees for the permit, Regulation 35 sets out:

35 Fees payable for permit

(1) The following fees are payable for the matters to which they relate:
(a) application fee for an initial or subsequent permit—$127,
(b) application fee for a duplicate permit:
(i) $40—if a photograph is required in accordance with the Act, or
(ii) $25—if no such photograph is required,
(c) fee for inspection of premises under clause 11 (2), and clauses 29 and 34 (but only if carried out by a police officer)—$100,
(d) administration fee for specifying in the permit persons (apart from the permit holder) who are authorised under the permit—$25.
(2) The Commissioner may refuse to exercise any function in respect of which a fee is specified under this clause until the relevant fee has been paid.
36 Exemption, waiver or refund of fees

The Commissioner may, for such reason as the Commissioner considers sufficient, exempt a person from the requirement to pay a fee in relation to a permit, or waive or wholly or partly refund a fee that would otherwise be payable or has been paid.
Under Section 15 of the Act, a permit lasts for 5 years.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/n...98231/s15.html



You should carefully note that the above is not intended as "legal advice" and it is provided for the purposes of information and education. You should obtain proper independent legal advice.

Hope this is of some use ...

Notwithstanding the above, and in relation to some of the other comments above, it seems you need a permit to do just about anything in this land except be a parent -- this is the one thing that crys out to the subject of regulation!

Best,

Les D
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 21-04-2008, 11:37 PM
Ric's Avatar
Ric
Support your local RFS

Ric is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wamboin NSW
Posts: 12,405
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward View Post
There is the rub. As individuals we can't change it. But how any of us have actually written to our local member and said , enough is enough?

Don't care?

And so we get the politicians we deserve....

Hi Peter, I fully agree with you on this knee jerk reaction by a puppet premier who is badly advised.

I have written to Bob Debus and the NSW minister for Police and all I have recieved was an email asking for my postal address so they can send me some information. I have also spoken face to face with my local minister who said he would look into it.

A finally I have written to the NSW branch of the Labor Party to inform them that as a result of this stupidty I will not be renewing my membership with them and that I also may not be voting for them come the next state election.

I believe that there is a lot we can do and make our presence known.

Cheers
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 21-04-2008, 11:46 PM
Ian Robinson
Registered User

Ian Robinson is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gateshead
Posts: 2,205
Bye .... where are you going to go ?

I can't think of a better country to live in .

At least we don't have Bush Jr and his gang of thugs in charge and we've finally off loaded Honest Johnny.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 22-04-2008, 12:03 AM
fringe_dweller's Avatar
fringe_dweller
on the highway to Hell

fringe_dweller is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 2,623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaroo View Post
I wasn't referring to American visitors, they were Finnish. What's your point?
well you were very provocatively and misleadingly political in your reply

how did you know i was referring to the US? oh i see, finland has a more liberal society then here does it, at least i am starting to understand who the reference country is now, would of been better if you had named this yardstick country by which you are measuring auistralia up against in the first place, on an australian site, would of been nice. so a member of the european union has more unfettered freedoms and less governence than we do you say

i was just following the natural flow of the mysterious title 'time to emigrate' emigrate to where exactly? and where do wealthy australians aspire to emigrate to most often? theres really only one or two that is in actual debateable upscaling class, that would be an improvement, and only one first world country renown for its view on individual freedoms
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 22-04-2008, 12:17 AM
Cerberus
Registered User

Cerberus is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 32
yet more proof of the shortsighted government reacting to knee jerk reaction of a few yahoos only to impose a blanket ban on all handheld lasers-this country seems to be getting closer to a fascist rule!

if anyone here still thinks a handheld laser can bring down a plane, take a look at DansData and his take on lasers here;
http://www.dansdata.com/nexus.htm

towards the end is this important bit;

"Anyway, I started out by entering the details for one of Wicked's monster 300mW Spyders . They're specced as having less than 1.5 milliradian beam divergence, so I entered a pessimistic (from an eye damage viewpoint) 1 mRad for that, and a 1mm initial beam diameter - which is probably a bit on the high side, but is nearly irrelevant to the NOHD calculation.For a standard rule-of-thumb exposure time of 0.15 seconds, that gave a NOHD of a decidedly non-trivial 163 metres. Increasing the beam divergence to 1.5mRad dropped that to 108 metres - but that's still a long way"

So thanks to a little thing called beam divergence even with a monster laser with 300mw output and a super steady hand the damage range is 163metres! if you were to believe the media crap fuelled by the politicians every kid with a laser pointer is a terrorist with a weapon of mass destruction!

still this is not supposed to be given to kids, i would have preferred to have seen a restriction of sales to minors under 18, but no, they have gone the 'sledgehammer to crack the walnut approach'. Think about it, alcohol and tobacco kill more people then lasers ever will, but do they ban them outright? no, why? too much excise/taxes to milk out of them, if they slapped a tax on laser pointers, heck, maybe they wouldn't have banned them!
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 22-04-2008, 12:49 AM
Ian Robinson
Registered User

Ian Robinson is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Gateshead
Posts: 2,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward View Post
Hello Fred,

I have been "laser flashed" on approach into both Hong Kong and Sydney. It was a total non-event....the comment we made was, as I recall, "some ******** down there has a laser"....a far cry from "oh my god I can't see!!"

I find people who don't dip their car's high beam far more of a hazard.

But the fact that legislation exists to detain me, my family &
destroy my house while searching for "evidence" is very scary stuff....
I've been "flashed" while driving , at speed and at night on the Newcastle to Sydney Expressway .... believe me when I say it was far from a non-event and could have had desasterous and leithal consequences if there had been a big tree , or a light post , or a culvert when I hit the anchors and immediately pulled to the road's margin , I would not have seen it , I could not see well enough resume my journey home for nearly 20 minutes.

This was nothing near as trivial as getting highbeams from an approaching vehicle.

The stupid wits who "flashed" me could easily have killed my entire family and me had I lucked out and hit something solid or rolled the vehicle, I was travelling at 120km per hour and the car has a lot of energy at the speed. Bet the imbeccilic wit/s who "flashed" me thought it was hilarious. It wasn't an accidential straying in the path of the beam , this was a deliberately and maliceously aimed beam, and I was the random target.

Last edited by iceman; 22-04-2008 at 06:59 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 22-04-2008, 03:08 AM
DSO's Avatar
DSO
100% visual astronomy

DSO is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: England's South Coast
Posts: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaroo View Post
I agree with Peter to a degree. Our country, with its wall-to-wall "leaders" of singular political persuasion have deemed our country to be full of mindless twits who need to be over-governed for our own good.

I had a bunch of foreign visitors here a while ago who's parting comment was "is there anything you're actually allowed to do in this country?"

Hmm... they're probably right.
Hi all. The guy who wants to emigrate from Aus won't want to come to the UK then. It's no better here and the weather's awful as well!
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 22-04-2008, 04:26 AM
skwinty's Avatar
skwinty (Steve)
E pur si muove

skwinty is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 494
I would also like to know where an Australian would consider emigrating to?
Perhaps the grass is greener on the other side because there's more manure there!.
Having said that if I was to emigrate I would choose Australia. Unfortunately Australia doesn't have a use for aging Nuclear Engineers.
Reason for this decision would be the fact that your have a law enforcement agency that seems to work.
My reasons for saying that are as follows.
1.How many people die in car accidents annually?
2.How many people are murdered annually?
3.How many women are raped annually?
4.How many people are robbed with intent to do grievous bodily harm annually?
5.How many people are hijacked for their cars annually?
6.The Australian dollar is sound and stable in comparison to other currencies.

Sure Australia has petty crime like everywhere else, but in my opinion you guys really have it good in Australia. Sure there are problems with dingbats who cant control their peurile impulses to shine their lasers at inappropriate targets but with a concerted effort and petitioning you can get around this problem. Even if you have to register and it costs a bit of money.
Remember, when the food is finished you cant eat the money!
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 22-04-2008, 06:26 AM
Argonavis's Avatar
Argonavis (William)
E pur si muove

Argonavis is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 745
I am surprised that Peter Ward does not consider these devices a problem. If you are on final approach and you are dazzled by a high powered laser pointer then the consequences are potentially disasterous.

"the acting president of the Australian and International Pilots Association, Mike Glynn, welcomed the ban, saying the problem had become serious over the past two years. "It's not an overreaction - there's real potential to cause a problem."..."


It is a typical situation - laser pointers are legal to own and use. The current laws are ineffective to prosecute the small number of idiots who start misusing them, who then create a problem for legitimate users. A small number of idiots spoil it for everyone.

The problem of misuse can only get worse. The government is doing the right thing in attempting to do something about it. No-one else here appears to have a suggestion on how this misuse can be stopped. It is clear that the difficulty of catching someone in the act would necessitate wide powers of search and seizure.

I could also envisage the scenario of a number of terrorists using a battery of them to bring down an aircraft on final appraoch.

The proposal appears a sensible exercise of sovereign rights. If you want to emigrate over that, well I don't know where you would go - desert island somewhere? As our cities become more crowded and society becomes more complex increasing regulation is inevitable.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 01:02 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Astrophotography Prize
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement