Border Stargaze 2008 - 28-31 August - Page 3

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #41 13-04-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mill

Hi Petra.

If that is true then it will be of no use for imagers to be there unless they have spare batteries and an converter to provide 240 volt for all the accessories.
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That would suit me fine.

The first IISAC at Lostock I had my night vision beautifully destroyed 3 nights running, all night long, by a thoughtless imager whose computer screen resembled the entry to Luna Park. The sad thing was the longer I stayed up, the longer he stayed up.

The Border Stargaze is heavily promoted as a public outreach event both to local schools and the community. Clearly that outreach focus will be on visual astronomy, not imaging.

Modern astrophotography has progressed to a level where it is no longer an ASTRONOMY discipline but is a COMPUTER SCIENCE DISCIPLINE. Astrophotographers use computer technology to locate the target, capture all the raw image data and then to process the image data. The fact that award winning images are being taken by astrophotographers who have essentially been involved in ASTRONOMY for 5 minutes, in the whole scheme of things, clearly demonstrates a predominance of computer knowledge as a prerequisite to taking good images, not necessarily any knowledge of astronomy.

Maybe award winning astro images should be published in PC WORLD, as opposed to SKY AND TELESCOPE. With GPS technology you don't even have to know how to identify 2 alignment stars

Serious imagers taking long exposure images with high grade equipment, who actually make a CONTRIBUTION TO SCIENCE as opposed to taking a mass of PRETTY PICTURES FOR INTERNET PUBLICATION, are exempted from the above rant, as are the thoughtfull imagers who respect the night vision preservation needs of the visual observers

Cheers,
John B

mill (Martin) · #42 13-04-2008, 12:58 PM

Now that is an f****g nice remark John.
Looks like you dont care much about imaging and just dismiss imaging as astronomical.
You just stay with your visual observations and shouldn't make remarks like this, just because you dont like imaging.
You would be better off sending NASA an email and tell them to stop imaging because that is against your wish and brings the astronomy in disrespute.
Just stop making stupid remarks like this and stay in your own corner.
Next time just try to be constuctive or shut your mouth for ever.

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #43 13-04-2008, 02:24 PM

NASA don't turn up at Public Outreach events, set up in the middle of the main observing field and ruin everyones' night vision.

There is a time and place for everything. The middle of the main observing field at a public star party isn't the place to set up imaging equipment, particularly when the event is being promoted as a public outreach event.

If the organisers can set aside a SEPARATE area for imagers, shielded from the main observing field, I have no problems with that at all. Fortunately most imagers are thoughtfull (at least 95%) and properly shield their screens and turn the brightness right down. Unfortunately, there are a few that don't give a rats about anyone else on the field and light the joint up like the Electric Horseman riding in to Luna Park.

I only have a problem with imagers that don't respect the rights of visual observers, at a public star party. There is room for everyone, just respect the rights of others. Unfortunately one person didnt do this at IISAC 2006 which you might say left a very sour taste in my mouth in regard to imagers. I don't like making the effort to go to such events only to be blinded all night long by a laptop screen and have my 3 nights under beautifull dark skies ruined.

Cheers,
John B

JohnG (John) · #44 13-04-2008, 02:35 PM

If it is the same as last year, there is an area set aside for imagers, the rules on laptops etc are not quite as strict as for the main observing field.

Cheers

mill (Martin) · #45 13-04-2008, 02:45 PM

First of all, there is an separate area for imagers with an less strickt light policy.
But there is no power on that field, unless you have a big batterie and converter, and can power everything from that. (what i dont have).
Secondly, we are allowed on the main field as long as we cover the laptop and have an shroud over it (i have all that and it will all be in a tent).
But still no power.
This was an question for the organizers of this event and not for you to rant about imagers.
PS: ever thought about going to that person and ask him to do something about his screen instead of just complaining?
Imagers love an dark unpolluted sky too you know.
And about the public outreach, a lot of people also like to see what comes up on the screen after having looked trough an scope, so they can see what it looks like in colour and then know what they have been looking at.
So for me it is like this: No power and it is of no use to me and dont see any reason to go. (imagers getting pushed in a corner).
Any other event i went too had power on the field for both visual observers and imagers.

mill (Martin) · #46 13-04-2008, 02:48 PM

Hi JohnG.

Do you remember if there was any power on that seperate field?
Cheers Martin.

JohnG (John) · #47 13-04-2008, 02:54 PM

Hi Martin

There was last year, but, I don't think there is for this year, there was a problem with electrical overload and part of the complex was blacked out.

I would bring portable power if I was you to be on the safe side.

See ya there.

Cheers

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #48 13-04-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnG

If it is the same as last year, there is an area set aside for imagers, the rules on laptops etc are not quite as strict as for the main observing field.

Cheers

If that is the case then that suits me fine. As I said before, there is room for everyone, it just has to be done thoughtfully and respecting the needs of both visual observers and imagers.

I don't intend carting a trailerload full of gear on a 7 hour drive, chewing up several hundred $$$$ in accomodation and meals, plus a couple of hundred $$$$ worth of fuel, only to be blinded all weekend long by some thoughtless clown running 6kw of illumination to his laptop screen, setup right beside me.

Cheers,
John B

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #49 13-04-2008, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mill

PS: ever thought about going to that person and ask him to do something about his screen instead of just complaining?

I shouldn't have too. He should be more thoughtfull, aware of what he is doing and aware of the needs of others on the field.

Cheers,
John B

JohnG (John) · #50 13-04-2008, 03:00 PM

Chillout guys.......we all got blinded last year when someone drove across the observing field with their lights on high beam, no big deal.

Cheers

iceman (Mike) · #51 13-04-2008, 03:02 PM

John, you could always have politely said something to the person, or asked one of the organisers or volunteers to say something.

Complaining about it 2.5 years later and bunching all astrophotographers in the one basket in an ill-considered rant just isn't cricket.

Petra's thread isn't the place for it either.

mill (Martin) · #52 13-04-2008, 03:25 PM

I don't intend carting a trailerload full of gear on a 7 hour drive, chewing up several hundred $$$$ in accomodation and meals, plus a couple of hundred $$$$ worth of fuel, only to be blinded all weekend long by some thoughtless clown running 6kw of illumination to his laptop screen.

Why do you even go then?
You already know there will be imagers who can pollute your precious sky.
and have laptops that throw out 6kw of illumination (You love to make it worse than it is it seems).

mill (Martin) · #53 13-04-2008, 03:34 PM

Ah well John you can be happy now because i won't be going and already asked for an refund.

dannat (Daniel) · #54 13-04-2008, 03:48 PM

If someone has the brightness up too high - just shine the laser pointer on them till they get the message- either they will get the message you are annoyed about the brightness or that you want to shoot them - either way its a Win.

On to more important things - HOw many have taken notice of the general thread and will be bringing ginger beer??

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #55 13-04-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman

John, you could always have politely said something to the person, or asked one of the organisers or volunteers to say something.

Complaining about it 2.5 years later and bunching all astrophotographers in the one basket in an ill-considered rant just isn't cricket.

Petra's thread isn't the place for it either.

I said something to you on the 2nd morning Mike and you obviously said something to the person concerned because they moved all of their gear to the other side of the house for the 2nd nights observing.

Only to blind me from the opposite direction on the 2nd night

IISAC 2007 was fine because the visual observers were sent to the bottom field, away from the imagers, laptops, lights and all the amenities, so the imagers could be close by the power available at the house.

As you and many others on the forum who have observed with me well know Mike, I try to be as helpfull and courteous to everyone on the observing field as I possibly can. I have always tried to be like that. I just take exception to a few of the thoughtless imagers that have scant regard for the other people on the SHARED observing field. As I said previously 95% of imagers don't fall in to that category and it is only a small minority who cause problems.

Cheers,
John B

spacezebra (Petra) · #56 13-04-2008, 06:05 PM

Hi all

The aim of the event is twofold. We are combining our public outreach activities with the normal format of a Star Party.

ASAW embraces both aspects enthusiastically and welcomes astrophotographers. The Retreat has numerous outlets for power and areas where astrophotographers can setup - however like many other Star Parties we have limitations to areas where power is accessible. The main observing field has no 240V power available.

The main areas that we will recommend for those that require 240V are the tennis court (yes the lights will be off) and vacant "powered sites".

The area that Phil Hart will be conducting his practical astrophotography work shop is on the Tennis Court. This will ensure that we strike a balance for all our guests.

If there are any concerns or questions regarding the event - please do not hesitate to contact either myself or the Project Manager (David Chandler).

To also qualify the location of the Retreat it is 30 km North of Albury and 30kms South of Holbrook.

Cheers Petra

spacezebra (Petra) · #57 20-04-2008, 08:11 PM

Hi all

We are experiencing a massive amount of traffic on the ASAW - BSG web site and will be down for at least 12 hours - please do not hesitate to contact me directly if you have any questions or concerns.

Cheers Petra

seeker372011 (Narayan) · #58 20-04-2008, 09:41 PM

cant get on the site, sent you an email
Narayan

leon · #59 20-04-2008, 10:08 PM

Having read the concerns of some, i find it a bit sad that we, imagers and visual observers cant enjoy the event in harmony and share any of the fields together.

Why should some be isolated to a place where one cant even socialise, have a yarn, and enjoy the evenings together.

There is room for everyone if we all respect the other.

Looks like a very long extension lead is in order

Leon

Rob_K · #60 20-04-2008, 11:19 PM

The Border Stargaze is a wonderful event, and I don't think we should be side-tracked by what-ifs. Visual observers and imagers will both have a great time, and I know each will respect the others on the observing field. The ASAW have rules laid down to cover all this in any case. And we shouldn't forget the general public - there was enormous interest last year, and this year should be even better!

I'll be going (just visual) and am really looking forward to it. Petra and the rest of the organising committee do a fantastic job, and anyone that can possibly get there should do it!

Cheers -