also who else loved nick caves script/movie 'the proposition' thats awesome could watch that over and over, sooo accurate - poor whites (specially of irish descent) werent treated much better than the indigenous people - he captures it well i think, that scene when aurthur burns says
From The Proposition (2005)
Samuel Stote: What's a misanthrope?
Two Bob: A misanthrope is a bugger who hates every other bugger.
Samuel Stote: Are we misanthropes?
Arthur Burns: Lord no! We're family.
lol should be part of the citizenship test to watch that
quote Suzy_A
"I particularly like the bit where it says about the Sons of England, Scotia, Erin's Isle should rouse to arms like sires of yore To guard our native strand; Shou'd foreign foe e'er sight our coast, Or dare a foot to land, and that Brittannia's sons in fair Australia's land Still keep a British soul!"
a concise summation of the "White Australia Policy" there...
...even the less obnoxious third verse is routinely a blindspot in "Nationalists" vision: ("For those who've come across the seas " ....(solong as they're Anlo-Celtic...or err..we need someone - a lil' more "olive"-shade-of -white to dig a collosal hydro-scheme )
&..only nightstalker acknowledged the first Australians
Somehow, I'm a little less than impressed with this thread.
....it's all a bit like chocolate Easter eggs... take off the tinsel and you get a thin layer of sugar-laden fat surrounding a void, ....the encapsulation of childish self-congratulation at being so "lucky", whilst ignoring the call of "the message".
Happy Easter to all! (gettin' in early- since I missed "Invasion-day")
(as did some of my anscestors, ..arriving on the "2nd fleet")
p'haps something to think about while you pack your 'Qan Sheng' into your 'Toyota' to go to 'Massacre Creek' for some dark skies
Cheers
Russ
Russ.
I felt really sad when I first read this post, then was very angry at the audacity and ignorance wantonly displayed here. This was not because of the real importance of fixing the rights or wrongs of the original Aboriginal people in Australia, it is not because they were displaced from their original lands, nor even the treatment or decimation their population - by disease or injustice - it was about attacking us celebrating this country that we all desire to live in peace and come together as a one unity peoples of this wonderful island continent.
In the 17th Century the view of the world was much different than it is today. People saw that distant lands as places needed for expansion and development, and so they occupied the lands like Australia and the South Pacific. Were it the English or even the French, rightly or wrongly, they set up Colonies. These people did not have the same sensitivities or sensibilities
as we do today, who viewed the world and it peoples as requiring adoption of "civilisation."
Now whether, as in Australian case, the settlement of the Europeans was an "invasion" is debatable because they didn't see it that way. History may determine an interpretation a different view, but this face you throw at us smacks of bigotry and hatred at best. What you call the "White Australia Policy" here is wrong, because there is no suggestion by anyone here that the Aboriginal people are not important nor should be discarded as any part of Australia. The underlying suggestion you make here is frankly quite repulsive.
You quote by Suzy_A
Quote:
"I particularly like the bit where it says about the Sons of England, Scotia, Erin's Isle should rouse to arms like sires of yore To guard our native strand; Shou'd foreign foe e'er sight our coast, Or dare a foot to land, and that Brittannia's sons in fair Australia's land Still keep a British soul!"
This refers more to the rivalry of the foreign powers overrunning Australia. After the British lost there colony during the American Revolution in 1776, there was a fear that there other colonies might have been under threat. This continued into the 19th Century.
For example, at the time of the French, were real rivals, and if it were no for the ill-fate voyage of Capt. La Pérouse, whose two ships (Boussole and L’Astrolabe) were lost in a cyclone around the beginning of April 1788, we would probably be speaking French.
Later between the 1860's and the 1880's, there were fears of a Russian invasion - both military and by settlers - occupying Australia for there own.
Really, the quote you refer has nothing to do with any racist slur at all, it refers to the need of patriotism among the British to keep Australia under there control and interest.
As Inge once said; "A nation is a society united by a delusion about its ancestry and by common hatred of its neighbours."
Frankly, the past is the past, and while it is important to respect history and attempt to right the wrong-doings and decisions of our ancestors, today and the future is the only way be can move ahead. So whether we celebrate Australia Day on 26th January, Easter or today, in the end it means bugger all, and certainly means no hint of any superiority of one Australian over the other.
To dare suggest this is related to the abhorrent adaptation of "White Australia Policy" is deeply offensive.
Andrew
NOTE: Perhaps we do need something new like the "Spirit of the Southern Cross", in which we adequately describe celebrating the diversity of the all the current Australian population - the Aboriginal included. It is the view of adopting the best of all cultures and definite us for who we have become - and will come.
Our flag has centrally has the Southern Cross as its symbol. It knows no race or prejudice, but shines with pride equally on all of us. If that's all you ever recognise on Australia day, then that should be enough.
I was born here, I will probably die here, and I will probably be buried here. The essence of me is bound in this place. I had no choice in my origins, but was placed here by chance and fortune, and my actions implant my now imprinted spirit on this land. I also share an origin with others who have arrived in a similar way.
In history, if I ever amounted or contribute to something in this world, it will be attached with my own species, name and place of origin.
This is at the centre of what is meant by being Australian.
hear hear Andrew - yep that sayin 'dont ya know there is a war going on' applies so well to that era, that little **** napolean springs to mind also
on brighter note, I celebrated aussie day/w/e by buyin a second hand 'Donmo' tri-cone 'rustbucket' 100 yr old? galvinated iron/steel? from rainwater tank, rolled flat, with aussie woods, ie mulga fretboard!!! complete with target practice .22 bullet holes in back!! how cool is that! by Adelaide hills resonater maker Don Morrison - oh yeah resonators are american delta you say - well the dopyera brothers were from slovania! i got one of theres too
aussie enguinity at its best
oh yeah and its fricken awesome eat your heart out national!
I'm proud to say I'm a descendant of one of the 564 male convicts (William Marriner) sentenced to 7 years for theft and arrived on the Alexander. His partner in crime Thomas Gearing sentenced to life for the same crime died on the journey out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobj
Today, 26th January, Australians celebrate the birth of our nation from the most humble of beginnings.
The First Fleet consisted of six convict ships, three store ships, two men -o-war ships with a total of 756 convicts (564 male, 192 female), 550 officers/marines/ship crew and their families.
The six convict ships were:
The Alexander
The Charlotte
The Lady Penrhyn
The Friendship
The Prince of Wales
The Scarborough
Other ships of the Fleet were:
H.M.S. Sirius
H.M.S. Supply
The Fishburn
The Borrowdale
The Golden Grove
The planning of Britain's colonisation of New South Wales was not the best. British gaols were overcrowded with petty criminals and convicts were no longer able to be sent to America as a result of the American War of Independence. It was decided to establish a Penal Colony in the lands of New South Wales which was discovered by Captain James Cook in 1770. The supply of women's clothing was left behind in Britain, which naturally caused problems until the colony was up and running.
The voyage itself also had it's own troubles. Some of the convicts on Scarborough attempted a mutiny which failed, there was also a second attempt of mutiny later in the voyage which failed. Captain Arthur Phillip, who was in charge of the Fleet on its 15,000 mile voyage, reported that there was only 23 deaths on the journey. (Phillip, the first Governor of NSW from 1788 - 1792).
It was these convicts, guilty of petty crimes that were the result of trying to survive the conditions of England at the time (eg stealing a loaf of bread), that were the pioneers who - through hard work and perserverence, made the colony survive and expand to the stage of self sufficiency.
point one:
""
quote Suzy_A
"I particularly like the bit where it says about the Sons of England, Scotia, Erin's Isle should rouse to arms like sires of yore To guard our native strand; Shou'd foreign foe e'er sight our coast, Or dare a foot to land, and that Brittannia's sons in fair Australia's land Still keep a British soul!"
a concise summation of the "White Australia Policy" there... ""
"Advance Australia Fair" is not a product of the 1700's world-view, it is the nationalistic rhetoric of late 1800's .. eg "The Bulletin" banner "Australia for the Whiteman".... a time of particular hostility towards Chinese, and of course , the classification of Aborigines under the "Flora and Fauna Act".
Regrettably, in my view, that song reeks of it.
My second paragraph: "...even the less obnoxious third verse is routinely a blindspot in "Nationalists" vision: ("For those who've come across the seas " ....(solong as they're Anlo-Celtic...or err..we need someone - a lil' more "olive"-shade-of -white to dig a collosal hydro-scheme ) "
seems to've been passed unremarked. It refers to things in living memory for many of us anyway.
That is as far as any reference I made to the "White Australia Policy" went.
I chose to point out that the "National Anthem" has embedded in it those views of that time. Suzy_A highlighted those parts, no doubt because they induce a warm feeling of belonging for her, and fair enuff. I merely point out that they were written with an underlying agenda.
Point two: I noted that amid the gratulations being expressed only one contributor mentioned those here before-during-and-after "the arrival" being celebrated.
I could also have noted that the few who joined in with pride of becoming Citizens (by effort and by choice) garnered no welcome reply.
Why am I disappointed with the thread? ...because it clearly demonstrated the unconscious exclusionism the day actually represents.
"Australia" Day is a misnomer.
it's really British Colonisation Day.
I offered the Easter egg metaphor as a clue to my intention.. that looking a lil' deeper might reveal the lack of substance behind the name.
Like Easter there's more to it than tinsel and comestibles.
It's not "black armband" history. It's unblinkered history.
All the fun and feeling good is important, but a lil' sober reflection to balance helps us avoid the pitfalls. A lesson one can learn from observing the extreme example provided by Germany... a rational people seduced by a Nationalist "Spirit".
One of the great virtues Australians can celebrate about this nation is the freedom of speech ...I've used it here .. my way of celebrating it and defending it. Silence is assent.
Thanks for your responses, particularly AJames. I hope this reply makes clear that I was not attacking anyone, nor denigrating the celebration of our nation... I was observing that as happens with such things, a lil gravitas to balance the leavening prevents it all just becoming fairy-floss.
One of the great virtues Australians can celebrate about this nation is the freedom of speech ...I've used it here .. my way of celebrating it and defending it. Silence is assent.
Unlike the United States Constitution (first ammendment), the Australian constitution does not guarantee any right to free speech in this country
I also find it amusing that the Australian constitution is an act of the British parliament.
The version of "Advance Australia Fair" adopted as our National Anthem in 1984 was heavily modified to remove a lot of the stuff large parts of the Australian population would find irrelevant or offensive to them. I could be wrong, but I don't think the reference to the Southern Cross appeared until the early 20th century.
It's also the fact that the Act of British Parliament that declared/established the Commonwealth of Australia took effect Jan 1, 1901.. the first day of the C20th ...not Jan 26 not 1788.
Cheers
Russ
ok, this thread wasnt some sinister prelude to the invasion of poland, the australia I know is mostly about hedonism, not navel gazing, its all about 1% of the population - soo the logical conclusion is all lets pack our bags and leave - hope omni and suzy will set the example for all? and be first to go back to their country of origin
or alternatively we can go on skulking about living like guilty parties and pretend oz is some giant mining camp, and stay in our atco's? which is it?
It's also the fact that the Act of British Parliament that declared/established the Commonwealth of Australia took effect Jan 1, 1901.. the first day of the C20th ...not Jan 26 not 1788.
Australia Day has been celebrated since the early 19th century. Long before the Commonwealth of Australia was established. I guess people didn't see the establishment of the Commonwealth of Australia as that important.
Heck, the Commonwealth was established as an act of the British parliament, we have the British flag taking up 1/4 of our own and I remember when I started primary school (in 1979) for the first few years we sang "God Save the Queen" at assembly (few knew the words, we just used to mumble).
It's a shame that people don't trust our politicians (with good reason) and consequently don't trust them to mess around with this stuff to form a republic. The foundation of a republic would be something to celebrate . For historical reasons we are stuck with being an independent British colony
Australia Day has been celebrated since the early 19th century. Long before the Commonwealth of Australia was established. I guess people didn't see the establishment of the Commonwealth of Australia as that important.
Heck, the Commonwealth was established as an act of the British parliament, we have the British flag taking up 1/4 of our own and I remember when I started primary school (in 1979) for the first few years we sang "God Save the Queen" at assembly (few knew the words, we just used to mumble).
It's a shame that people don't trust our politicians (with good reason) and consequently don't trust them to mess around with this stuff to form a republic. The foundation of a republic would be something to celebrate . For historical reasons we are stuck with being an independent British colony
Doug, ANZAC day is the de facto 'independence day' at this stage - most celebrate that as the 'birth of a nation'
and really, scratch a LOT of aussies ancestry, and to use an old politically incorrect term,would have a 'touch of the tarbrush' my missus is 1/16th Maori, i grew up in a family with a step father who was 1/4 south sea islander/chinese, and have half brothers and sisters from him - and this wouldnt be unusual i would imagine for a lot of people, they just kept it quiet back then. were not as pure white as some think maybe - and that would jealous europeans?
It saddens me to see that we just can't start a thread to wish each other a happy "whatever" day without it turning into a Political Correctness lesson of sorts.
It's the same with the usual "Remembrance Day" thread and other such threads.
It saddens me to see that we just can't start a thread to wish each other a happy "whatever" day without it turning into a Political Correctness lesson of sorts.
It's the same with the usual "Remembrance Day" thread and other such threads.
Shame really.
Totally agree, Andrew.
If only I'd known the thread was going to take such unexpected twists and turns...
Hi Matt & Andrew, I think the clouds have to go away and we all then go out and do some imaging and de-stress. I've noticed that a lot threads have started out lately in one direction and ended up on a completely different tangent.
Looks like I helped stirred the pot a bit by putting up the full 'Advance Australia Fair'!
I'm usually very proud to be an Australian - note that I said 'usually'. I'm not when Ozzie Yobbos start shouting out 'Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie, Oih oih oih!' and then beat each other to death with cricket bats (being careful not to spill their beer.)
It's amazing that when I'm overseas, my accent often changes a bit as I'm often so embarrassed by the Ozzie Ozzie mob.
Anyway, I digress a bit. Or maybe a lot. The reason that I put up the full AAF is that few people know what it actually says in it's entirety and I think that many people find it offensive, or at least not exactly what they expected.
Anyway, I hope that everyone did have a great ... what did we decide to call it - Australia Day? Invasion Day? Citizens' Day? Piss-up and Fireworks Day?
p.s. as for Easter Eggs being sugar flavoured fat, what's wrong with that? My two favourite foods are sugar-flavoured fat (chocolate, chocolate ice cream, chocolate cake etc) and salt-flavoured fat (chips, pizza, avocado and vegemite sandwiches, cheese, etc)
Must admit I was quite dissapointed by the Australia Day celebrations here in Coota. We went down to the oval about 10:30am to find everyone packing up and going home. The rest of the day was like another Sunday. Would have thought there would have been more enthusiasm for the "National Day".
I shouldn't be surprised really, back in 1988 if it wasn't for a certain Scots non-citizen the Bicentenial Bonfire in Geraldton WA would have been a sausage sizzle by the girl guides.
Firstly, it saddens me greatly to have too totally condemn some of the biassed views that has been expressed here. I honestly feel so utterly frustrated and disgusted - especially on the day that should be expressing unity of every Australian - in which we all should be rightfully proud. I was going to write a hostile response, but instead, I wish to make a open general statement on the difficulties some are having in responding to reactionaries within threads like these. (and hopefully some grace and understanding by the moderators)
Some expressed views by others are very clearly just plain and simple forms of bigotry, enacting out by some self-appointed demogogue - meaning one who is seeks support by appealing to popular desires and prejudices rather than by using rational argument.
The classic responses of any bigoted person, is that it is better to be bigoted against a totally imaginary or historical group of people than against real people living at the moment.
It is amazing to me that those who are the most bigoted among us always hide behind their rights of "free speech", using the concept to protect their own intimidating or contentious views.
Indeed, it is actually a kind of censorship, because the sole aim is to entice negative responses by others - often in an attempt for a reactionary or view that will cause divisive issues. It directly works on the fears of speaking out so they are exposure to the wraith of authority (in this case, the moderators.) Here those who oppose bigotry find they are both confused and disempowered.
In the end, we all lose, because no one has the desire to express the issues in fear of walking the tight-rope and facing possible retribution or sancitions against them - blackmail by stealth.
It is as Carl Pwccaman said;
"The question is how to assess instances of domination and how to respond. Responding to a dominator/instigator can itself be portrayed as dominating, instead of as a response to an implied or direct threat. Without sympathy for the one who is threatened, and without withdrawing sympathy from express bigots..and the like, judgment will be skewed against us.
There is no equality, here. Bigots...will skew judgment if we are trying to be relativistic to the extent that we validate their position as just as valid as others."
The problem in counteracting these reactionary tendencies or views, is how to stand-up to those who are making the threads environment for the bigot against the scapegoat(s), while in turn trying to keep some preservation of expression, true freedom of speech, against arguments or ideas - even though they might be unpopular.
(NOTE: This is the core problem among blog sites throughout the world.)
There is no clear cut answer here, except that responding to bigotry is both understandable and sometimes necessary - where it is necessary to draw some line in the sand.
The danger is tolerating bigotry. (extending to bullies and various other intimidators).
Clearly, the only means of counteracted such tactics is by the solidarity of our peers.
It felt good to go through the ceremony, and all the lead-up to the big day.
The process was enjoyable. It really forced me to think about what I was doing and why? In a lot of ways I think it forced me to spend more time thinking about Australia and what it means to me than a lot of Australian-born 'Aussies' spend doing the same. And I don't mean to offend anyone by saying that.
I'm glad I made the decision. I'm glad I made a choice and a commitment. I am proud to be counted among Australians.
here's to an incredible future 
Australia : Redneck Wonderland
native 
This was not because of the real importance of fixing the rights or wrongs of the original Aboriginal people in Australia, it is not because they were displaced from their original lands, nor even the treatment or decimation their population - by disease or injustice 
eat your heart out national!
Contracting Bigotry
