To modify or not - Toucam

Lee · #1 23-10-2007, 03:41 PM

Hi guys
I'm going to pick up a Toucam for guiding with PHD.... Can get normal or modified long exposure.
For guiding - how much better off am I with the modified version? Or will I find enough guide stars with unmodified?
Thanks heaps!

Terry B · #2 23-10-2007, 03:53 PM

My attempts to guide with an unmodded toucam were not very successful. My guide scope is rigidly attached to the main scope with rings so I can't aim it in other directions to find a guide star. This seriously reduced any chance of finding a guide star. I assume the modded cam has much greater sensitiviy and gives you more options for guide stars. I now use a QHY guider and can always find a guide star with a ~2 sec exposure no matter where I aim the scope.

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #3 23-10-2007, 03:59 PM

Lee, I have both, and have guided with both.

When I image with the DSI, I guide with the modded.
When I image with the Modded, I guide with the unmodded.

Yes there is a difference, but even with the unmodded I don't have any problems finding a guidestar, but I have very dark sky.

The modded does show a lot more to choose from. If you have the slightest bit of light pollution you will be better off modding it (plus you can image DSO's with it).

ozstockman (Mike) · #4 23-10-2007, 04:04 PM

Hi Lee,

From my experience with both I would strongly recommend modified one. I found it very difficult to find a bright star for autoguiding near many DSOs. Now it's much easier with modded ToUCam(I use ATiK version) as I can set exposure to >1/50 sec and there is always at least one star visible by GuideDog. See this thread

P.S. May be it's just me as Doug seems to be very happy with result :-)

cheers,

Michael

Geoff45 (Geoff) · #5 23-10-2007, 04:06 PM

I think it would be best to get the modded version. The less time you have to spend looking for guide stars the better. I haven't tried to push the limits, but the other night I had no trouble guiding with a modded toucam on a mag 9 star with PHD and a 70mm guidescope without fussing too much about the focus.
Geoff

ozstockman (Mike) · #6 23-10-2007, 04:15 PM

sorry, forgot to mention that I used C8 SCT f/10 as a guiding scope which has a limited FOV. May be the result would be much better even with unmodded webcam in case of using something like ED80 as a guiding scope.

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #7 23-10-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozstockman

sorry, forgot to mention that I used C8 SCT f/10 as a guiding scope which has a limited FOV. May be the result would be much better even with unmodded webcam in case of using something like ED80 as a guiding scope.

Good point! I use a 120mm f5 Achro refractor as a guidescope. Nice wide field full of stars.

h0ughy (David) · #8 23-10-2007, 04:29 PM

• PHD Supports the following cameras:

Atik 16 series (Windows)
Meade DSI series (Windows and OS X)
SAC4-2 (Windows)
Orion StarShoot DSCI (Windows)
USB SBIG (Windows and OS X, but see Help for details)
Fishcamp Starfish (Windows and OS X)
CCD-Labs Q-Guider (Windows)
MagZero MZ-5 (Windows)
Cameras from The Imaging Source (Windows and OS X)
Webcams (short and long-exposure - parallel port, serial port or LXUSB, Windows).

now given Bintel will be getting the new The Imaging Source DMK 21 USB Mono CCD Camera for $539

dear but probably worth it. A Q -Guider is about $230US but I am not sure as to their availability.Fishcamp Starfish camera is about a grand US, but it is cooled

gbeal · #9 23-10-2007, 04:49 PM

Just to be different, I'll buck the trend here.
If I am not using the SBIG (which has a dual chip so guiding built in) I use an unmodified ToUcam. The secret to using this though is the set of guidescope rings. For my ST80 (400mm f5) C&N refractor I use the Losmandy DR105 guidescope rings. Expensive, and heavy, but definitely a life saver for the unmodded ToUcam. K3 software, and the StarMate mate.

Bassnut (Fred) · #10 23-10-2007, 07:40 PM

I modified a tocam for guiding, tricky, you need to be a bit technical, but worth the effort. Also, Maxum DL DSLR has a "stacking" feature for non modded webbies that effectively increases the guide exposure times to several seconds, so modding is not the only way to increase guide exposure time.

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #11 23-10-2007, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbeal

If I am not using the SBIG I use an unmodified ToUcam. The secret to using this though is the set of guidescope rings. For my ST80 (400mm f5) C&N refractor I use the Losmandy DR105 guidescope rings. Expensive, and heavy, but definitely a life saver for the unmodded ToUcam.

Yep Losmandy rings work great as others have found out.

But I use an alternative. It is a design that Bert invented and is absolutely brilliant. He posted about it in here about 2 years ago and no-one took his idea seriously. Last camp those who saw it said it is fantastic, but I don't think any of them have adopted the idea yet.

Phil (acropolite) checked it out at my house and said he will take the idea home.

It is a magnetised holder for the Toucam which allows the camera to move around! Simple!

[1ponders] (Paul) · #12 23-10-2007, 08:38 PM

Like Gary I use an unmodded camera with Losmandy Guiderings. I use it by choice as it works a charm and I cant be bothered to learn to use another camera though I have a number (Check h0ughy's list its pretty comprehensive

) that would do the job.

Lee · #13 23-10-2007, 08:51 PM

Problem with guiderings - they need another dovetail, and a side by side also..... adds up fast!
I like the sound of the DMK-21 actually h0ughy.... would be good if I decide to dabble in some planetary imaging...

dugnsuz (Doug) · #14 24-10-2007, 10:32 AM

I've got the unmodded toucam - so far it's been not too much trouble to find guidestars, but I have been starting off with the brighter DSOs!
I found that fine slewing of the scope to find/centre stars in the PHD viewing screen doesn't affect the object's position in the camera's field of view too much.
My guidescope is rigidly fixed to the main imaging scope too on a pair of ADM guiderings.

For the modded toucam, I was told that you needed both USB and Parallel ports on the computer to use it - don't know if that's gospel, someone else can comment.
Overall though Lee, the addition of the toucam has been the cheapest yet most significant addition to my astrophotography arsenal!!
Initial experiments had me guiding on the tarantula Neb for 10 minutes before I got bored and wanted to see the resulting image - I could have let it go longer!!!
All the best
Doug

ballaratdragons (Ken) · #15 24-10-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dugnsuz

For the modded toucam, I was told that you needed both USB and Parallel ports on the computer to use it - don't know if that's gospel, someone else can comment.

Doug

Yes Doug, the Long Exposure mod requires a Parallel port. There is another method of connecting the Parallel connection thru a serialbus card, but I'd have to go find the info about it. I remember it is about $80 to do it that way.

Lee · #16 24-10-2007, 07:59 PM

Thanks for the info guys..... Eventually talked myself into a DMK21.... thanks h0ughy!

h0ughy (David) · #17 24-10-2007, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plasmodium

Thanks for the info guys..... Eventually talked myself into a DMK21.... thanks h0ughy!

LOl no worries, spend your money any day!!!

bonox · #18 26-10-2007, 09:50 AM

the other little point about short exposures is in capturing the seeing. Short ones may get you a star with a big enough scope or pointability, but it is still a point instant shot that the centroid calculation algorithms will chase a lot with anything but great seeing. If you should only be providing guide inputs at > second intervals, why not make the photo the same length and 'smooth' the guide requirements a little.

Wow, i've done a bit of guiding but have only taken two photos - how sad am I!