SKY and SPACE What a Joke!

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by casstony

While I don't disagree with you Alex, I'm a little cautious about putting pressure on S&S for fear that they may give up and go home. I have to frequently reside in those time capsules known as 'Doctor's waiting rooms' and it's S&S that gets me through.

Well I thank you for the opportunity for me to agree that it is a fine magazine:thumbs up:...

I doubt if he will pack up because of valid critism...one in that position rarely does...

I simply hope that he sees that he has a great product and that not to address "small" issues will be his undoing.

Humans generaly think they are very important and if they are not attended to fast it is an afront to their importance.... they take it personally is what I say and one must bear that in mind.

But to cut thru all I have said and to offer something nice...I say this..

the mag is top class... I love it when I read it... I support it by buying it when I see it to the exclusion of others...

if I have a mag dollar to spend they get it first.... I think it is world class and simply unfortunate this silly little aspect takes away from their opportunity of growth (I expect).

Sorry to be so cranky but I have not slept well for a couple of days...all nighters at the scope and a trip to Sydney with a flat on the freeway and the spare under the junk in the back...thats my excuse.... see I can use them to

alex

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by Satchmo

The Sky and Space bashing on IIS gets really tiresome.

I don't think that's a fair statement. It's something I have read often on other messageboards when someone has a gripe about the so-called S&S bashing on IIS.

Funnily enough, it's often grouped with words like "censorship" and "free speech". Which is a total contradiction. This thread is "free speech". People are free to voice their opinions about Sky & Space, or Australian Sky & Telescope - both good and bad. And they often do.

I'm sure if you read back there's been just as many "supporting" threads for S&S, as so-called "bashing" threads.

The publishers and editors of Sky & Space have to expect negative sentiment when they are continually late. The publishers and editors of Australian Sky & Telescope have to expect negative sentiment about US content in an AU magazine. It comes with the territory.

[rogerg (Roger)]

Got my copy yesterday in the letter box. Looks good, noticed several IIS members mentioned in there, and contributing significant content

I've learned to live with the delays, I prefer that to no mag at all. However I am disappointed they appear to be spending considerable effort (and money?) on a new star party that most of us can't attend, I find that crazy and quite a turn-off to buying the magazine. They're a nation wide magazine but are putting so much in to an event that's in one state, I don't get it.

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by iceman

I don't think that's a fair statement. It's something I have read often on other messageboards when someone has a gripe about the so-called S&S bashing on IIS.

It was just my impression that IIS community was a bit more pro AS&T : I may well be wrong .
Its easy to have ones thinking become coloured . I'll will try and keep a more open mind on all this.

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

I feel I must agree with a number of people here when they say that S&S is an excellent magazine...it is. As for 100%, I guess this is actually impossible for a magazine on such a subject. If you quote an article from NASA, or write an article on something from them, is this Australian content? It gets a bit grey in this case, but I guess they mean someone sitting in an office in Australia typed the text for all of the articles. The 100% content bit isn't really a clincher for me anyway.

I would rather get the mag late, than pay for it and not get it! (aka US S&T)

[merlin8r]

I would rather get the mag late, than pay for it and not get it! (aka US S&T)

But that was the exact problem that I has with Sky and Space. My wife bought me a subscription as a surprise, but I only received 4 copies in the subscription period. I did call, and was told it's the publishers fault that a copy didn't arrive. Needless to say, the publisher had a different opinion. And in my humble opinion, subscribers should always receive their copy before it is available in shops. I'm not bashing S&S, nor am I pro/con any magazine. The more we have the better. It was just the lack of communication that let me down.Clear skies,Shane

[DougAdams]

Originally Posted by mlcolbert

erik, have you tried Technical Book and Magazine in Swanston Street?

Technical Books is no more. They moved into Lonsdale or Latrobe Street (not sure which), but then closed down about a year later.

[Rodstar (Rod)]

When I reflect on what it is that bugs me about S&S, I think it is that promises are endlessly made which are not fulfilled. For as long as I am aware, S&S has been saying in its editorial much the same thing along the general lines of...

"Sorry we're late this time. We have introduced some great improvements...we look forward to delivering a more timely magazine from next edition."

These promises have been repeatedly made, but not followed up with action.

A few months ago, as a test, I actually sent a succession of emails to S&S to enquire as to when their magazine would be coming out (the magazine was already by that stage quite late). I sent about 4 or 5 emails, which were very polite, seeking that basic information. My emails were completely ignored.

In light of this conduct, when S&S endlessly try to take the moral highground on the issue of content - that they are 100% Australian - I am bothered.

If that is the best that 100% Aussie made can do, then I would rather get McAstronomy from the US.

All of my dealings with AS&T have been first class. I have never found any promise to be made that has not been fulfilled.

When S&S get their house in order and put the magazine out on time, then I will begin to listen to their moral claims on content. Until then, their mantra is just a clanging noise, and my regard for their publication will be lessened.

I like many others do actually enjoy a lot of the content of S&S, but I have gone from being a paid up subscriber to an occasional newstand purchaser because of my disappointment regarding my experience of their business practices.

[MortonH]

I think that expecting a reply to an e-mail from a company that's struggling is optimistic. And would we prefer them to delay the mag even longer just so they can sort through e-mails and apologise for the delay?

I agree that it's not the best customer service, but if you already ackowledge that this mag is operating against stiff competition with limited resources, then perhaps we need to make some allowances.

As for e-mails, they are the worst way to try and deal with a complaint. How many e-mails do we all receive every day at work and home? I know I struggle to read them all, let alone respond to all of them.

I see this happen with my staff every day: they send off an e-mail asking for something and then they put it out of their mind, assuming that the recipient will (a) receive their e-mail, (b) read their e-mail, and (c) action their request within a reasonable timescale. In many cases, a two-minute phone call would have got the desired response.

Maybe it's particularly disappointing because the astronomical vendors in this country respond to e-mails the next day, and we've become accustomed to this level of service...

But I also agree with the general consensus that I never know when the next issue will hit the shelves, and I'd rather read a local mag, especially one that has so many contributions from IIS members.

Morton

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by Rodstar

In light of this conduct, when S&S endlessly try to take the moral highground on the issue of content - that they are 100% Australian - I am bothered.

Fair comment. I guess it just depends what your needs are in regards to delivery times and local content .
If they could use foreign content at will like AS&T they would have the magazine out much more often on time I've no doubt, so I'm prepared to 'cut them some slack'. The task S&S have at hand is probably an unenviable one and a difficult one with such a small pool of potential authors.

Anyway, I enjoy both mags but I think the claim of wholly Australian written content by S&S( and yes the hair splitters can challenge that )is a perfectly fair and significant one to me and for all intents and purposes they acheive it. The amount of Australian based content in AS&T doesn't even come close but I know this is not important to some people.

I hope S&S can sort out delivery times but one wonders after 20 years, so I'll just enjoy it when it comes out. I just hope they can both forge a permanent existance: like 'Astronomy' and 'Sky and Telescope' diversity and competition in Astro publishing has to be good.

[astroron (Ron)]

Pressure has been put on them for nearly twenty years and it has not made a blind bit of difference, they still carn't put it out on time.

[DougAdams]

Twenty years?!

I didn't renew my subscription as I only ever seemed to receive a couple of issues a year. I know, it probably wasn't as bad as that. Also, the quality of the magazine seemed uneven. I also recall one chap seemed to write half the articles (perhaps that's why it's always behind schedule!).

[rumples riot]

I feel sorry for the crew at S&S.

This time I agree with you Mark, despite what has been said this happens (bashing) more often than not.

Been buying their mag since the time when there was only Astronomy Now and S&S. Always good and always late. I don't see that as a problem really.

[Lee]

Originally Posted by MortonH

I think that expecting a reply to an e-mail from a company that's struggling is optimistic.

If you aren't going to answer emails, don't have an email address. Doesn't take long to have a standard reply sent off to all who enquire - these are the people who are paying their way.....

[centauri]

Let me just say this

I AM NOT out to just bash this mag, if it was any other product I would have done the same.
In fact I enjoy this mag which is why it is disappointing. I am pro Aussie stuff and support aussie business where possible.

That said, I recieved a reply email today which covered all the questions of all the previous emails. And the result is that they are sending one out el prompto, thankyou Mario.

To those who think emails are not a valid form of communication in business today, WHAT THE ?

Anyway thankyou to all who responded it has made interesting reading and I think we should maybe just leave it at that!

[xelasnave]

I have not said it but what really ticks me off is the way they hide behind we are Aussie trip doing it tuff...this is crap...

my experience with Dirt Bike Mag tells me that..its is a lame excuse...

knowing what to expect who in their right mind would subscribe???

I like the surprise of finding it at the newsagent not the surprise of wondering when it will be in the letter box... but with the growing group of astronomers more will vote with their feet... if you have a mag subscriptions are good business so why destroy this aspect with little regard to the consequence... it is business suicide...

when he goes down it will be everyone elses fault I expect. If he was commited to being best this would not be being aired here right now.

I hope things will change I would like them to be a quality Ausie Mag distributed world wide..and lests face it Aussie means good astronomy, we are the envy of all in the game world wide, that is promotable...what an opportunity going to waste... how many subscribtions will not go forward world wide becasue of the displeasure aired here.

You are stupid not to improve your game, particualrly when all say it is a problem that must be addressed.
alex

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

I did subscibe to the late lamented Southern Sky and also to Sky and Space just after the two combined. Late or non delivery of issues caused me to not renew my subscription and ever since have just picked it up if it is available at a newsagents.
I am a bit unforgiving when it comes to not fulfilling contracts. In my job I used to spend large amounts of company money on materials, businesses got 2 chances for fulfilling orders on time, after the second let down, I looked elsewhere.

[iceman (Mike)]

Originally Posted by Satchmo

I think the claim of wholly Australian written content by S&S( and yes the hair splitters can challenge that )

I don't know that it's hair splitting to say that Tony Gondola is not Australian and doesn't live in Australia?

[Orion]

I really don't understand what all the fuss is about.

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by iceman

I don't know that it's hair splitting to say that Tony Gondola is not Australian and doesn't live in Australia?

Yes , I 'd call that hair-splitting when the other 15 or so authors in the magazine are all australian residents.
One foreign written article hardly brings down anyones perception of a magazine who is acheiving an exposure of most predominently Australian talent.

Mike , you are an AS&T contributer and AS&T are sponsors of your website. Your comment hardly projects an air of neutrality from IIS maneagement ?