Snow flakes and human thought

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Gargoyle_Steve

Yes Alex - my trying to "understand what you said" is a matter of my following your thought processes, so yes the problem is at my end of the phone line if you like!


I thought you may enjoy my input - my having 2 bob each way as it were - and adding a little fuel to the fire of debate.

May there be many more such thought provoking chats - in fact I have a topic in mind, I've been keeping it "on hold" for a couple of days for when we need something new.

I indeed enjoy your input Steve I am more interested in what others have to say as I already know what I think...well I think I do.. and it was my attempt to accept the fault rather than pass it to you.. I cant wait for your new subject.
alex

[xelasnave]

Ron I guess what I am saying is we need to brush those sweeping statements aside.. thanks for your addition to this most serious matter.
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Ron I guess what I am saying is we need to brush those sweeping statements aside.. thanks for your addition to this most serious matter.
alex

You are agreeing with me, because that is what I said, using different words of course we seem to be rather clever fellows you and me, do you think others share that sentiment?

[bloodhound31]

Thats all I have to say......................

Baz

[xelasnave]

The clouds are rolling in so I have packed it all up.. Ron I am sure folk see you as a very clever fellow and indeed a very decent chap and I would agree with them in that regard but in truth they can only see me the way I present..strange and different and I doubt if clever springs readily into their thinking... chatty and verbose does not equate with clever it equates with boring and tiresome. I realise that and dont think ill of them or myself as a result. You see finally I really dont care I dont take things personally why should I its got nothing to do with me.
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

You see finally I really dont care I dont take things personally why should I its got nothing to do with me.
alex

Good morning Alex, it's another day in my reality, and I would just like to say that if I am the only entity in existence (and that I created you with the enormous power of my mind) then I also command you to care about how I perceive that you perceive yourself.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by tailwag

Good morning Alex, it's another day in my reality, and I would just like to say that if I am the only entity in existence (and that I created you with the enormous power of my mind) then I also command you to care about how I perceive that you perceive yourself.

Hi Ron
I thought you were talking about how others may perceieve me which is not necessarily how I percieve myself...that is a different kettle of fish .
Some percieve me as knowing stuff they do not or that my experience in some things is worth paying for so as to benefit from my input .

Mate if there is one thing I enjoy is a very high opinion of my self worth and an almost arogant self confidence in most things I do. When I do something I go for it and give it everything I have got. I play to win always .
My point was simply that others views are often along the lines of ÿou can judge a book by its cover"... another sweeping statement I feel as the cover really tells one very little and more often is designed by the boys in marketing .
I recognise that being open and brash and prepared to stand up and say you think much of the science we accept is flawed will produce a predictable opinion from others ... I dont take their view as a personal affront .. those are their views on the little information they have to go upon... their opinions may be such as I predict or they may not.. but it does no concern me as I have no control upon others views and would respect their opinion ever if it was not complimentary..that is what I mean by I dont take anything personally .
I appreciate your concern that I may hold the view of myself that I can happily entertain others may hold of me and thank you for taking the time to express your concern .
Thank you that is indeed a very decent way to care about others so I now not only see you as clever and decent but as a caring human .. you can be proud of that I feel it is an uncommon quality and one that all should admire .
thanks again
alex

[ving (David)]

er... my cats breath smells like catfood....

you guys... my brain hurst so much reading this.
I doubt there are 2 snow flakes the same but if they were lab created then i guess it is posible... not that i know this as a certainty...

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by ving

er... my cats breath smells like catfood....

you guys... my brain hurst so much reading this.
I doubt there are 2 snow flakes the same but if they were lab created then i guess it is posible... not that i know this as a certainty...

Ving I was hopeful that you would add a comment as I understand from my investigations you are the man when it comes to seeing double and I think you are indeed on the right track as one could imagine that if exactly the same conditions of creation exist in a controlled environment such as a dedicated "ïce lab" the proposition could be determined I expect with a reasonably small sample of snow flakes. Still the incoming news re fractals suggest there is room for an opposing view more along the line of Bert's arguement.. We really in the interest of unbiased observation need both of you on the review committee. Of course if two idnetical ones are found will they be rejected as simply exceptions to the rule
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

I put it to you that two snowflakes may have been identical between 13 billion years ago and 5 billion years ago, whilst the laws of physics (then) existed. However in the last 5 billion years through till today, under different laws of physics, it is not possible.

Because the laws of physics are dynamic, they have an essence of their own and it changes over time, this is why we have failed to come up with a model for the creation of a galaxy. You would think that a fairly simple thing, but you will never find one, using Newtonian physics.

That's because when galaxies were being formed the rules were different. This is so simple, I just can't believe everyone hasn't come to the same conclusion yet.

Rather than waste time thinking of a set of rules (laws) that work for everything, it is more likely that the laws themselves changed. Therefore today's impossible was yesterdays reality.

Like you Alex, I want Ving to comment, because no one commands a better vocabulary than him and I have never laughed more in my entire life than when I read Ving's last post

[xelasnave]

Because the laws of physics are dynamic, they have an essence of their own and it changes over time, this is why we have failed to come up with a model for the creation of a galaxy. You would think that a fairly simple thing, but you will never find one, using Newtonian physics.

Ron I can build anything or at least tell every one in the crew where I want things put and if they do their job and follow instructions will build anything even a galaxy.. at least I will try but in truth I dont think anyone even speculates upon how they are built theyu just appear at the time the sums suggest most convienient..
Current physics does not seek to build galaxies, current physics does not seek to explain the force of gravity ..current physics to be cruel takes notes of what is observes and set out sums to record what has taken place not how or why.
Current physics is not to be undersestimated in its application however it fails to explain the force that runs the place..gravity..gravity in its full implication explains everything. It is unfortunate that humans seek to explain things in terms of four forces and seek to explain only three leaving the most important force as almost non existent inserting in its place geometry that merely shows its influence not the animal itself. But that is what they work with for that is the best idea the best mind could suggest. But that was never enough.
Gravity holds the key so rather than tie the öther"forces to gravity the "other forces should be tied to gravity" and no explaination accepted that does not first provide how gravity plays the main part in that forces opperation.
Current theory expects to find things as the theory suggests yet no attempt has been to include gravity other than to explain it as a force of attraction a force never established by experiment but merely a belief seized from human experience. Attraction does not exist so dont look for dark matter you will never find it..it is not there.. it only has to be there to fit the human concept of attraction.. no attraction no dark matter.
And yes I can build a gallaxy or at least explain how they grow and evolve by leaving aside the concept that gravity attracts, and they somehow congregate around dark matter..its not there so that idea will not work..it (attraction and its love child dark matter does exist) and whilst humans include such a concept in their equations without any support from observation they will find no satisfactory answer..They will forever draw an incorrect conclusion in their attempts to solve gallaxy construction and such will remain a mystery along with most of the workings of the Universe.
There is no force of attraction everything exerts its influence by domination provided by particles that flow from it..but never back.. If in doubt ask yourself how can the force of attraction communicate? one body sends a message to another of its prescence waits for a return acknowledgement and there by start a relationship..I am here where are you..no never! each thing simply is and has no necessity to know where anyother thing in the Universe is in relation to itself.
I could be wrong but I could be the first one for whom the mystery has openned ... space time says nothing and string theory says more about nothing... neither offer anything more than a playground of sums.
The laws of the Universe are different to the laws of physics it is unfortunate that humans can not see the difference..the laws of the Universe have ruled it for all time and they simple boil down to everything presents its prescence to the Universe and pushes its particles out to annouce that is where it is..nothing more.
Tell me where you can go to escape one single star for all will reach you in time no matter where you go and whilst you seek to hide remeber that every star (object also seeks you out) and in that the pressure I call gravity is created without need for any object to be concerned about the existence of another.

alex
and yes I am irritated I could not go to the star party..does it show?
alex

[xelasnave]

Sorry to be brief I have a friend around here for a chat.
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Sorry to be brief I have a friend around here for a chat.
alex

LOL hehehehe leave comedy to the comedians Alex

[xelasnave]

But Ron I was not trying to be funny. I was in fact annoyed to have to entertain someone who had been drinking who if they had not could have driven me to the star party. Still is undelines the point some jokes are nice others are cruel I guess.
ANd Ving's joke was funny Simpson's humour is not lost on me.
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Ahhhh (here comes another sweeping statement)....it's hard to see the forest from the trees with respect to your last post, I thought (notice I purposefully avoided the word assume) that you were joking, but now I know you weren't.....hmnnnn it's often difficult to interpret the written word without the aid of facial twitches and hand waving and other telltale clues we use when speaking.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by tailwag

Ahhhh (here comes another sweeping statement)....it's hard to see the forest from the trees with respect to your last post, I thought (notice I purposefully avoided the word assume) that you were joking, but now I know you weren't.....hmnnnn it's often difficult to interpret the written word without the aid of facial twitches and hand waving and other telltale clues we use when speaking.

Ron thats why I use the smilies as the way I sound is always grumpy yet I am always happy . My humour is also such that your suggestion to leave such to the professionals is indeed a most valid point to make .
You are more than clever decent and caring you are certainly wise..no joke
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Ron thats why I use the smilies
alex

Smilies are good, so is Don

[xelasnave]

Who is Don Ron? is Don Ron?
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Who is Don Ron? is Don Ron?
alex

Hahahaha no Don is not Ron, Don is Good, is a popular television commercial for a smallgoods company, the catchphrase is, "Don - is good", you have to say it with a deep voice

[xelasnave]

IC IC you have fallen for one of those sweeping statements I feel..Upon what authority do you rely See I am being funny every body look I am making the joke with Ron .
alex