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  #21  
Old 23-02-2007, 05:11 PM
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I know this is about the end of film. So bear with me. I used to work in Kodak's research labs and digital leaves film for dead as long as it not a point and shoot.

An entry level Canon DSLR leaves film for dead in dynamic range etc etc.
My Canon 5DH has 14.3 stops of dynamic range. Film has a quantum efficiency of about 2% any digital colour camera is better than 40%.

As for vinyl you are absolutely correct as the human ear is exquisitely tuned to harmonics and find non harmonics (odd frequencies) discordant. Unless the the digital system from recording to final playback samples the sound at some high frequency that does not introduce these false harmonics even the untrained ear will pick this up.

Sorry if I am a pain!

Bert
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  #22  
Old 24-02-2007, 03:16 AM
Jonathan
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Originally Posted by xelasnave View Post
Hey Johnathan thanks for the link .
I should not have said best camera in the world as I refer only to my world..the one that I know about so far.
Here is a link but if you goggle there is a lot out there on them.
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=270
Thanks again alex
Thanks Alex. I thought you might have been talking Hasselblad! When they (or someone else) can make one for under $5k I'll be there
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  #23  
Old 24-02-2007, 06:29 AM
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WellI bought A new slr body in 2003 and by 2004 the company had ceased production .

An example of how complete its demise is looking .A friends brother is a well known photographer who does get a lot of work in vogue ect . Vogue still demands film stock btw but not many others do .He recently heard of a pro developing lab for sale and rang to enquire about its price , the seller offered it to him for $500 if he picked it up by next week.
When he arrived the seller showed him an even larger machine$130 K worth that was getting cut up for scrap the following week
simply because he couldn't sell it .. or keep his buisness afloat
without changeing over .
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  #24  
Old 24-02-2007, 01:18 PM
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I can't help but agree with the comment on exposure latitude of film. I once had one film (one of two) overdeveloped by the processers. Even though the negatives looked unusable, the final print quality from the botched film was as good as that from the correctly processed roll. That said, I don't miss film, it's much nicer to be able to slightly alter an image to achieve a better result and the ability to simply shoot dozens of images means that there is less chance of missing that once in a lifetime shot. The ability to print without messy chemicals and dedicated darkroom is also a bonus. As far as the resolution of landscape camera's is concerned it's largely irrelevant as modern software allows stitching of composite images to record larger (gigapixel even) images, try that with film.
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  #25  
Old 24-02-2007, 01:55 PM
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The decline of 35mm film isn't soley the responsibilty of digital. Back in the mid 90's the film companies and the camera companies colluded into forcing the masses into using the dreadful APS system. The irony is they knew full well that digital was coming, but decided to start rolling back the production of 35mm film. Many of the companies are now paying the price for their forcefullness.

Clear skies,
Shane
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  #26  
Old 24-02-2007, 04:08 PM
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your not imagining this latest rapid development (pardon the pun) Roger - I too can smell the stink of defeat in the air at pro labs lately (there dont even seem to be pros doing the developing anymore! - work experience kids and/or someones mum filling in - like its tuck shop duty !!! yikes - one thing I bitterly resent and dislike in this historical transition, is the price of old second hand high quality lenses you can get for a song, for old 35mm film cameras versus the cost of buying the equivalent quality primes for my canon for 'widefield' photography - (which is really all i am interested in - ie big bright comets - outside of a little moon/planet stuff) - where is the cheap second hand market for these lenses?! not even close to started - maybe in 10 years they will do the same!?! - so its back to a rich boys/credit card/second mortgage game again,to have a full selection of lenses that is - ahh the short lived proletariat heyday!
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  #27  
Old 24-02-2007, 09:54 PM
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Ken you can actually buy a record player from Dick Smith, that you can plug into your computer and download the tracks, just like you do from CD's.

Cheers Leon
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  #28  
Old 25-02-2007, 12:38 AM
Jonathan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolite View Post
I can't help but agree with the comment on exposure latitude of film. I once had one film (one of two) overdeveloped by the processers. Even though the negatives looked unusable, the final print quality from the botched film was as good as that from the correctly processed roll. That said, I don't miss film, it's much nicer to be able to slightly alter an image to achieve a better result and the ability to simply shoot dozens of images means that there is less chance of missing that once in a lifetime shot. The ability to print without messy chemicals and dedicated darkroom is also a bonus. As far as the resolution of landscape camera's is concerned it's largely irrelevant as modern software allows stitching of composite images to record larger (gigapixel even) images, try that with film.
G'day Phil,
You're right about the exposure latitude of negtative film (different story for slide film unfortunately!). I once forgot to change some settings after shooting some fast action in low light at Bathurst and then went on to shoot in very bright daylight conditions without realising until it was too late! Much to my suprise the negatives came out superbly without any loss of detail even though they were over exposed by 5 or more stops. I wish my digital cameras could do that

When it comes to using film these days I think you (and possibly many others) have got the wrong idea about how things are done. Some people still do their own enlargements but there's a far better and easier way.....
Once the film has been exposed in the camera you obviously get it developed (or DIY), but after that there's no use for the messy chemicals you're talking about, and there's no need for a dark room either, it's far more simple than that. You simply put the film into a scanner at home whether it's a dedicated film scanner or a good flat bed, or if you're after the absolute best quality you give it to the lab to do a drum scan. Either way you end up with a high resolution digital file that can be manipulated on a computer the same as a file out of a digital camera. After that you get it printed the same as you normally would with any other digital picture. So stitching images together from film is the same as digital. It's good for long panoramic shots but it still leaves you with the problem of perspective distortion, that is several photo's taken with a telephoto lens will look very different (and often very odd) compared to one image taken with a normal or wide angle lens over the same field of view. Nothing beats large format film for landscapes. When you want hundreds of megapixels worth of image to play with there's no substitute...... yet!!!

I've got to say that digital rules when it comes to holding the button down for a long burst to make sure you get that one magic shot! I remember doing that many times with film only to have the damn thing hit the end of the roll! One thing that is annoying though is that 35mm SLR's have been able to take 8+ frames per second for a many years, but most digital SLR's are 5fps or less, the classic example is the Canon 5D that has superb image quality but it's only rated for 3 fps which I wouldn't even consider taking to a sports event. A 35mm SLR for one tenth of the price can do that. It seems you have to spend well in excess of $5k to get a fast DSLR like a Canon 1D or Nikon D2H or D2X instead of about $1.5k for a fast 35mm SLR. That said, I'm happy with 5fps out of both my main digital and film cameras anyway
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  #29  
Old 25-02-2007, 01:13 AM
Jonathan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merlin8r View Post
The decline of 35mm film isn't soley the responsibilty of digital. Back in the mid 90's the film companies and the camera companies colluded into forcing the masses into using the dreadful APS system. The irony is they knew full well that digital was coming, but decided to start rolling back the production of 35mm film. Many of the companies are now paying the price for their forcefullness.

Clear skies,
Shane
That's a good point Shane. Another problem is that amateurs seem to always want to use the same gear as pro's regardless of what they're trying to achieve. So when pro's started going digital several years ago so did many amateurs but they neglected to realise the difference in image quality. The pro's were more worried about getting their photo's in for the next mornings paper than getting the best quality image. Most of us want our images to be a bit better quality than what you see in a newspaper.

Another problem in Australia was Kodaks dominance in the film market, or Fuji's lack of interest in Australia. I use a fair bit of film and I wouldn't use Kodak unless I was paid to, it's completely inferior to Fuji for what I do (that's my opinion only!!). If Fuji slide film was as easy to buy and get processed as Kodak was I think there would be more people using it, such as it is in the USA.
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  #30  
Old 01-03-2007, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ballaratdragons View Post
They are on thier way back Alex.

Kmart and some other stores now sell new record players, and one company in New Zealand started releasing new music on vinyl only 2 years ago.

There are several places in USA and UK that still release artists on vinyl too.

People requested record players and records, so they are making them both again.
There is a store in Tokyo, on Akihabara station, specialized in "good old" stuff.
Turntables (Nakamichi is just one among them, of course), valve amplifiers, huge speaker systems (I wonder how they fit them in their average, tiny homes) etc. And the business is still blooming....
We are not dead yet
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