A particle question

[xelasnave]

Can anyone tell me where a particle fits in the electromagnetic spectrum?
I am interested in learning more about the nuetrino but find particle physics difficult to understand or rather get an overall concept of the concept. I am a layman but would welcome any site as a reference even if the material is complex I am prepared to wade thru it.
Any help or links would be greatly appreciated.
alex

[avandonk]

Here is a start Alex. All particles have a wavelength due to their momentum. For an explanation see here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Broglie_hypothesis

Bert

[xelasnave]

Thank you Bert.
alex

[AGarvin]

Try this site Alex:

http://www.particleadventure.org/

Andrew.

[xelasnave]

Still wading thru but a lot of it I have covered before .
So from that I gather that a nuetrino is part of the electromagentic spectrum or is that a leap in logic that should not be made . The fact of base ball thrown through the air having a wave lenght has confused me as that makes a base ball part of the electromagnetic spectrum also whereas that concept I think I have missed something
alex.

[AGarvin]

The neutrino is not part of the EM spectrum, or EM itself. Only the photon is.

What you need to research Alex is quantum mechanics as the concept of matter having a wavelength and wave/particle duality is a quantum thing, but you have to appreciate what is meant by wavelength. In the quantum sense, it's the spread of the wavefunction.

Try this site:

http://physics.about.com/od/quantump...um_Physics.htm

Andrew.

[xelasnave]

Thank you Andrew I have to go out but look forward to reading up on that when I return. I will chat while waiting to be picked up and give it my all later. Thanks very much for taking the time to post the link and point me in the direction. I find it a little difficult but my interest carries me along.
alex

[avandonk]

Alex the simple take home message is 'If you think you understand Quantum Mechanics you almost certainly don't!'

The Neutrino is an enigma as it may have a small but not negligible mass. I don't know what the latest limits to it's mass are but it has enormous ramifications as many millions pass through all of us constantly.

The really scary thing that the two slit interference experiment has been done with Bucky Balls (C60). The only way that an interference pattern can be produced when there is only one C60 molecule in the equipment at any time is if the C60 molecule goes through BOTH slits!

We then get into interpretations 'the wave function follows all possible paths and only collapses to 'reality' when observed' Which leads to reality only existing when there is an observer.

It has been a long time (37years) since I studied this area so I am a bit rusty.

Bert

[erick (Eric)]

Originally Posted by avandonk

...We then get into interpretations 'the wave function follows all possible paths and only collapses to 'reality' when observed' Which leads to reality only existing when there is an observer...

Sorry, a bit off topic, but I always think of this Far Side cartoon whenever I get into observation/measurement and Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle related matters.

I promise - I'll go away now.

[avandonk]

I like it! Cows are smarter than you think!

Bert

[wasyoungonce (Brendan)]

Theorised particles called Quarks have mass and charge, different combination of which give properties we identify as neutrons, protons etc.

From what i remember there are 6 quarks and each is called a "flavour" and they are: Up, down;charm; strange Top; and Bottom.

As said each has differing mass and charge and there can only be stable combinations of quarks to make stable particles like Neutrons, Protons.

I remember the famous cloud chamber photo showing a spiraling trace of a particle, the original identification of Quarks. The Particle spirals as it has a charge and the force acting on it will be at 90degrees to it's motion, aka a spiral. The direction of spiral tell you what charge the Quark is.

Maybe the Wiki can tell you more than i could:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark

The "Youngs" double slit experiment is evidence of wave/particle duality of light, not the existence of Quarks.

De-broglie wave length refers to all matter having "a wave length" and in this respect that electrons orbit a nuclei as a standing wave or harmonic of a standing wave. This is the only way a electron orbit could stay stable without collapsing.

[xelasnave]

Thanks very much for all your help, I did a little reading today and try to remember Bert's words as I feel I losing a grasp on what I read.
I have read that they travel at C and it has been determined they have a mass .. news I read some months ago that I thought rather exciting.
I have my gravity rain ideas (gravity is a pushing force generated by particle pressure and that attraction is a human myth) and such a particle is what I need to make the idea work. So I figured if it was related to the electro magnetic spectrum I would have TOE almost complete . Given that there are many of them they seem like a great candidate for what I propose... notice I refer to it as an idea not a theory but that is about the limit of my science understanding .
If not explaining gravity could the pressure from neutrinos provide an explanation for dark energy which I think has been observed to be a pushing force? It is my belief if attraction was taken out of the picture and we worked only with a pushing force new doors could be opened.
I know they look for them in labs far underground in tanks with cleaning fluid and I had the impression they were few and far between ..however that seems not to be the case, I also thought they had a very short life expectancy but find that is not so.. so space full of these going everywhere at C would do the trick if the numbers stacked up.
So if I could find a connection between them and the electro magnetic spectrum the link between the forces could be established..maybe.
Anyways just a thought I will read everything in the links posted so I can learn what I don’t know.
The proposition of observing things in two places at once is indeed curious I will think about why that could be so ... it seems so curious.
I think the uncertainty principle gets our thought to an exception rather than the rule frame of mind as in the cow cartoon, what is probably really relevant is what are they doing most of the time, that can only come from a guess as the observations seem to demonstrate the situation as the car passes the cows... that sums up all I think I know about cows no bull .
So the Sun radiates photons which make up the electro magnetic spectrum but neutrinos are separate . If a base ball shows the same wave relationship exists do you think that could suggest that there could be more than a photon involved in the make up of the electromagnetic spectrum.. I only seek an opinion as to possibility given these things are tricky and harder to see than cows? Any thoughts?
Another cartoon could help explain things at my level .
Thanks again
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Thanks very much for all your help.
alex

Oh, I'm sorry I spent the day researching a practical question, then as I was going to post it, I realised you had said particle question

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Originally Posted by tailwag

Oh, I'm sorry I spent the day researching a practical question, then as I was going to post it, I realised you had said particle question

Actually, the real story that is totally interesting is this one; "Physicists have for the first time stopped and extinguished a light pulse in one part of space and then revived it in a completely separate location."

The full story is at: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0207171935.htm

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by AGarvin

Bert has pretty much hit it on the head. If you think you understand QM you probably don't. Having said that, you can get a good understanding of it, conceptually at least, so long as (and here's the caveat) you realise and accept that a lot of the "how it does it" and "why it does it" we don't have answers for.

Andrew.

Eintein had a perfect answer for this exact dilemma:

Whether the chicken crossed the road or the road moved beneath the chicken depends on your frame of reference.
- Albert Einstein

[AGarvin]

Sorry folks, I've gone and deleted my post part quoted by Ken . It was rather long winded and I was attempting to make it more readable.

DOH!

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Quick, just keep clicking on the 'Back' button until you get back that far and save/re-post it.

It works, I've done it.

[xelasnave]

Tailwag..I dont know how I missed the light stopping and starting thing I spend a lot of time at sciencedaily. I heard about something like that years ago maybe it was then only an idea. Extrodinary.. I did not realise they could get such a low temp. must have a decent fridge .
My mind is racing but not round and around going too fast to do that... will reach escape velocity soon.. what can it mean.
Light is fasinating, as well as magnatism and electricity we er they know so much but seemingly so little .
AND Tailwag I changed my picture reading your post re who is for real. The last photo was real but my mohawk hair cut was just going out .. the ears were not real but a photo effect. The beard is real its a genuine photo to bring things up to date.
Thanks for putting me onto that matter my dreams should be interesting tonight I recon ... the old brain has some filing and sorting to do and I still have things to read. It is so wonderful to be able to get so much information I love it the net is a wonderful thing .
alex

[DobDobDob (Ron)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

.. the ears were not real but a photo effect.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, I can't begin to tell you how many times I started to write to you and then stopped. I wanted so desperately to mention your ears, but being a thorough gentleman, simply couldn't broach the subject. You have made my night...I was of course hoping they were real...

[AGarvin]

Quick, just keep clicking on the 'Back' button until you get back that far and save/re-post it.

To late.

What a nob, can you believe I'm a professional programmer (don't answer that, I never said I was a good one).

I'm also blonde BTW.

I have a headache.