What telescope are you imaging through Mike?
I'm curious because reducing pixel size through longer focal length telescopes isn't supposed to be a good thing but, I DON'T know, just heard through longer focal length larger pixels are the best.
Brand new CCD camera?
I thought they were extremely rare now (as in no longer produced) and was directed to a story online by my son where the last of a certain CCD auctioned at a very princely sum after going through a STUPID process of trying to replace a CCD from an old camera with a new CCD and nearly fainted when I got the price.
The process of simply swapping out the camera without making any changes sounds like a great outcome for you!
In perhaps an ideal World, for high resolution imaging, yes, I would get a longer FL scope (eg. 16/17" RC/CDK) and use a larger pixel Camera, (which I do have, a FLI PL16803) to achieve the finer image scale buuuuut that would have been a far more expensive route and then the slower scope too of course..buuut bigger aperture, so many factors. In the end though, image scale is image scale and I expect I will see a modest improvement in fine details captured regardless
I'm not doubting the fact you are going to get amazing images I just get confused after loading my brain up with full well and everything else astro-cam related a few years back when I wanted to buy a new 294mm from Bintel they didn't have in stock. They didn't even contact me when they came in (I wasn't just buying the camera) and I ended up putting my win ($3,800 Oz lotto) into a used D810 for myself, a new Samsung S8 tablet for my son for his birthday and a new Lenovo two in one (tablet/laptop) for my son for Christmas (I'd rather spend money on my son) and had some nasty words with Bintel. They never got back to me and I've since long forgotten everything I read about cameras or ever getting a somewhat semi mid spec camera. I did pick up a Player One Neptune colour camera near new on here cheap, that and my D810 will suffice.
I've long forgotten everything I learnt except larger pixels are better for my longer focal length refractor (Achromat 152mm 1200mm Skywatcher with minimal CA), that never happened when I was younger, I formerly had an eidetic memory, now I can't even remember what that means. Haha.
Isn't it strange how quickly people will push CCD's aside as if they are no longer relevant, forgetting how MANY of the best images ever produced (to date) were produced with CCD's, prior to AI based sharpening and noise reduction techniques..
I'd love to put a KAF16803 or 16200 camera into my big APO... I reckon that would be the absolute best setup... There isn't a CMOS sensor to my knowledge that would provide the same specs as the 16803, and I would guarantee that with darks, the 16803 would be as clean as any of the current CMOS cameras.
when I was younger, I formerly had an eidetic memory, now I can't even remember what that means. Haha.
We tend to lose eidetic abilities once we hit adult hood
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexN
Isn't it strange how quickly people will push CCD's aside as if they are no longer relevant, forgetting how MANY of the best images ever produced (to date) were produced with CCD's, prior to AI based sharpening and noise reduction techniques..
I'd love to put a KAF16803 or 16200 camera into my big APO... I reckon that would be the absolute best setup... There isn't a CMOS sensor to my knowledge that would provide the same specs as the 16803, and I would guarantee that with darks, the 16803 would be as clean as any of the current CMOS cameras.
I must fire up the PL16803 again soon, it hasn't collected any photons since 15 May 2021 and the last completed image with it, was way back in Feb 2021
I must fire up the PL16803 again soon, it hasn't collected any photons since 15 May 2021 and the last completed image with it, was way back in Feb 2021
Mike
Rubbish image, rubbish old CCD tech... you should toss it in the bin (my hands) and just be done with it...
Also.... WOW
Id forgotten just how extreme the FSQ106 + 16803 field is! 4°x4° - what a show! haha
With the second anniversary of first light occurring just recently, on 2 Oct this year and after a total of 45 nights of imaging, producing 21 images in total, I had enough data to make a comprehensive assessment of the longer term seeing quality at Eagleview.
It was a bit of a task but once I started, hey, I just kept going. It was an essentially manual method and it took quite a few hours to complete
To hopefully arrive at a statistically meaningful value, I went over every Luminance and H-alpha data set, checking the FWHM of many stars on many individual raw sub frames, from each of the 45 nights and selected the best 10 sub frames from each night (within an hour or so of the meridian in most cases) thus generally representing 30 to 60min of integration time over each night. Then, using MaximDL software, I measured the average FWHM of six non flat topped stars in each of the 10 sub frames and found the average of each set of 10 sub frames from each night. I used an x-axis resolution of 0.1 arc sec and I rounded down below 0.05 and up for 0.05 and above and the result is plotted below.
Due to limitations associated with the pixel sampling, there is likely a limit to the accuracy of this method for measuring FWHM below about 1.6" so it is unlikely to be a perfect assessment, however things that can be drawn from the result are:
1) Measured FWHM seeing-distribution across the two years, is between 1.4" and 2.3" with the most common FWHM value being 1.7" which is on par with Siding Spring Observatory (typical raw sub frame attached)
2) 87% of nights see a FWHM of 2" or better, for at least part of each evening but often for hours at a time.
3) A FWHM of 1.7" or lower, is measured on over 50% of nights and 1.5" or less on 13% of nights.
4) A big caveat - the scope used to make these measurements suffers from a small amount of astigmatism, so actual FWHM measurements, if done using the same method but with an aberration free optical train, would be somewhat better.
This was a fun exercise and it was good to actually graphically quantify the seeing at least to some meaningful degree
Cheers
Mike
Last edited by strongmanmike; 22-10-2024 at 04:02 PM.
That's ridiculous. You have as many nights at 1.4" as you do at 2.2", and 2.2" would be about my average night! hahahaha
Why is there no emoji for 'leaps from a building'
I haven't bothered performing the same thorough exercise on all my old data from the 8 years at my pervious Wallaroo observatory but the few data sets I have analysed from that period, suggest a similar result to you, maybe even a tad worse, so consistently about a half arc sec or better improvement overall, not insignificant and definitely noticeable, even on the screen as subs come down.
You don't truly understand you need glasses, until you get them
Had some visitors from Norway up to Eagleview over the weekend and the sky turned it on for them with perfect mild, windless, dark Moonless conditions. They had recently visited St Pedro d Atacama in Chile and visited a commercial telescope tourist facility but after watching the Milky Way slowly rise in the South East, over a few hours, with the lights off, they said they felt Eagleview skies were better it was a great night...eating and drinking outside under a beautiful dark sky is hard to beat ...even my non-astro wife took some astrophotos with her phone Our Norwegian friends were keen to see the legendary square poo of our Wombats too and they even got to enjoy some of that
For me what I do under the stars is more than just looking through telescopes or capturing endless digital records of celestial bodies, at all costs, I believe it's about the whole experience of being out under the stars and sharing it with others when ever we can ...so, it was sunny days and beautifully clear, calm and quite mild (ish) night time conditions up at Eagleview over the weekend...err:..apart from the nearly BLUUDY Full Moon On the major up side however, to make up for the night time sky brightness, we had some friends up to stay over night, for a Sri Lankan curries (chicken and fish) and the national delicacy known as egg hoppers, extravaganza. All made by hand and form scratch, on site, including using the slow combustion stove, lots of fun...aaaand bluudy delicious! all while surrounded by a wonderful Aussie rural landscape, lit by sun during the afternoon and a (annoying ) silvery Moon after that.
The bright Moon not withstanding, we still managed some naked eye astronomy from the rear deck, which our visitors thoroughly enjoyed, the outlook was still magnificent and in many ways good that you trip over and run into less out on the sky deck
Also attached... just how astronomers feel about the Full Moon...
Mike
Last edited by strongmanmike; 12-05-2025 at 11:08 AM.
This time a full on astro weekend, alone in the mountains (Except for Humphrey the Wombat) food offerings to the Gods provided two days of great astro conditions, a little breezy at times but ok inside the dome and seeing was quite good, plenty of data collected too. Cut wood, did washing (using Australia's highest Hills Hoist..dries in a jiffy ) ah domestics on high, Nirvana
I like the wombat Mike.
It looks so peaceful up there, I'm betting it gets very windy but inside an obs' you're protected.
Keep in mind much like my local winter, now is the time to put the butter in the fridge so it doesn't freeze.
We had a clear Friday, Saturday and early Sunday evening skies but my yard is way too boggy to play out there in anything other than a hovercraft (I wanted to make a hovercraft push mower at one time but recognised the obvious challenges).
It hasn't stopped raining today.
I like the wombat Mike.
It looks so peaceful up there, I'm betting it gets very windy but inside an obs' you're protected.
Keep in mind much like my local winter, now is the time to put the butter in the fridge so it doesn't freeze.
We had a clear Friday, Saturday and early Sunday evening skies but my yard is way too boggy to play out there in anything other than a hovercraft (I wanted to make a hovercraft push mower at one time but recognised the obvious challenges).
It hasn't stopped raining today.
On clear sunny days it is a magical location, heck, most days it is a magical place to be and no, after 4 years now, I can't really say its significantly more windy than Canberra really I've only lost a handful of nights to wind over four years. It's definitely cooler than Canberra generally, due to the altitude, I watch the car thermometer drop 4 or 5 degC driving from Michelago (700m) at the base of the mountain, to the top (1450m). Although it snows more regularly, strangely night time winter temps don't feel all that lower than Canberra's either?, might be due to the generally lower humidity..?
I could use a hover craft mower up there though..?
Mike good to see you getting out for some 1 on 1 time .Look forward as always to the finished results.Humphrey looks like he’s around for the long haul maybe he can smell your cooking.Back in the 60s my Dad lived with an Italian who fed the resident Bandicoot spaghetti.
Cheers Derek
Mike good to see you getting out for some 1 on 1 time .Look forward as always to the finished results.Humphrey looks like he’s around for the long haul maybe he can smell your cooking.Back in the 60s my Dad lived with an Italian who fed the resident Bandicoot spaghetti.
Cheers Derek
He he Viva Italia, Viva Spaghetti! I have 7 nights worth of data, accumulated over the last couple of new Moon periods, waiting patiently... I'm hoping to add to it on Thursday night too and then get into processing it all
and then the slower scope too of course..buuut bigger aperture, so many factors. In the end though, image scale is image scale and I expect I will see a modest improvement in fine details captured regardless 
and the last 
(I was a good boy)... 
On the major up side however, to make up for the night time sky brightness, we had some friends up to stay over night, for a Sri Lankan curries (chicken and fish) and the national delicacy known as egg hoppers, extravaganza. All made by hand and form scratch, on site, including using the slow combustion stove, lots of fun...aaaand bluudy delicious! all while surrounded by a wonderful Aussie rural landscape, lit by sun during the afternoon and a (annoying 
) silvery Moon after that.
