Max wins F1 Championship - Page 2

ngcles · #21 18-12-2021, 10:44 AM

Hi All,

Out of all this one thing is absolutely certain:

Nicholas Latifi will not receive a Christmas card from Lewis Hamilton this year!

I wasn't personally much invested in either driver but I think on the day, Lewis was dudded.

That said, it has been a year filled with controversy and conspicuously poor sportsmanship on the part of both Lewis Hamilton & Max Verstappen. Both are win at all costs types.

So it took seven years for the trailing pack to finally be able to match it with Mercedes at the last gasp at the very end of the season with the current regulations. Next year, the slate is wiped clean and they're all starting from scratch in terms of car development. I wonder how long it will take before somebody comes up with a car that can again compete with a Mercedes? Three? Five? Seven years??

Best,

L.

astroron (Ron) · #22 18-12-2021, 12:08 PM

The new head of the FIA is Mohammed ben Sulayem.
The FIA is Motor sports governing body.
He has just announced that Lewis Hamilton and Toto Wolff
May be punished for not attending the
presentation ceremony.
That would be a great start to his presidency, not.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59705074
Cheers

Rainmaker (Matt) · #23 18-12-2021, 05:32 PM

Pretty poor effort by LH and his faithful companion Toto in boycotting the presentation gala……. Maybe they should take up sulky racing……

ChrisD (Chris) · #24 18-12-2021, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

The new head of the FIA is Mohammed ben Sulayem.
The FIA is Motor sports governing body.
He has just announced that Lewis Hamilton and Toto Wolff
May be punished for not attending the
presentation ceremony.
That would be a great start to his presidency, not.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/59705074
Cheers

[Mohammed Ben Sulayem] Asked to clarify whether he was saying Hamilton would be penalised for not attending the gala, he said: "Forgiveness is always there. But rules are rules."

astroron (Ron) · #25 19-12-2021, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisD

[Mohammed Ben Sulayem] Asked to clarify whether he was saying Hamilton would be penalised for not attending the gala, he said: "Forgiveness is always there. But rules are rules."

Yes Chris, I thought that was rather ironic.
Rules seem to apply to one side of the fence
so to speak.
F1 needs Mercedes more than Mercedes.
I would advise them to travel carefully.
Cheers

Rainmaker (Matt) · #26 19-12-2021, 11:59 AM

If Mercedes had pitted Lewis for some fresh soft rubber and then Max had stayed out for track position, do you guys suppose that they (TW & LH) would have then said Max deserves the win rather than using Lewis's fresh rubber to pass Max......

Mercedes and Lewis gambled on the safety car staying out to nullify any further racing, a gamble that didn't go their way. Having met both Lewis and Max I have no particular issue against either but I was pleased to see the race not end under safety car......

astroron (Ron) · #27 19-12-2021, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

If Mercedes had pitted Lewis for some fresh soft rubber and then Max had stayed out for track position, do you guys suppose that they (TW & LH) would have then said Max deserves the win rather than using Lewis's fresh rubber to pass Max......

Mercedes and Lewis gambled on the safety car staying out to nullify any further racing, a gamble that didn't go their way. Having met both Lewis and Max I have no particular issue against either but I was pleased to see the race not end under safety car......

From what at least 90% of the pundits and other commentators said
and I agree also.
Lewis and Mercedes where shafted.
It was a carefully managed scenario by the FAI, Liberty media the owners
that there wouldn't be a race finish under a safety car.
The whole fiasco just fell into place with Latifi's convenient crash.
AKA Piquet's 2008 Singapore GP crash that allowed Alonso to win the race.
Put it this way,if I was shafted like Lewis and Mercedes,I wouldn't go to the presentation either.
Cheers

BTW if Lewis had pitted he would have come well behind Max,and judging by the actions
of Masi in the eventual finish,god knows what Masi would have done.
One thing is for sure,they would have not allowed Lewis to finish before Max.

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #28 20-12-2021, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainmaker

If Mercedes had pitted Lewis for some fresh soft rubber and then Max had stayed out for track position, do you guys suppose that they (TW & LH) would have then said Max deserves the win rather than using Lewis's fresh rubber to pass Max......

Mercedes and Lewis gambled on the safety car staying out to nullify any further racing, a gamble that didn't go their way. Having met both Lewis and Max I have no particular issue against either but I was pleased to see the race not end under safety car......

That's not correct Matt. Mercedes had nothing to gain and everything to lose with whatever decision they made and whatever scenario unfolded, unless the prevailing rules were followed, which of course they weren't. As I said in an earlier post "Michael Masi will be in the stands selling hot dogs next year".

Without question this was one of the most apalling decisions I have seen made in over 50 years of watching professional and amateur sport. Almost as bad as the decision in the first Jeff Fenech V Azumah Nelson fight. That's the only time I have ever seen someone get the "living sh_t" punched out of themselves for 10 and arguably 11 of 12 rounds and end up with a draw.

Cheers
John B

JA · #29 20-12-2021, 03:30 PM

Apparently (and people can search for a reference) the F1 teams agreed at the start of the season that it was desirable to finish races under green flag (racing) conditions. This presumably is to avoid the appalling look of a precession behind the safety car all the way to the chequered flag. Mercedes didn't factor that in to their team's strategy and left Hamilton out there to maintain track position some 5 laps before the end of the race, whilst RedBull pitted Verstappen for tyres as the Latifi crash was cleaned up. In fact as I recall the radio discussions during those closing stages, Hamilton I seem to recall asked his team if he could/should pit for tyres and they advised against it, stating that he should maintain track position. I'll see if I can find that conversation/video snippet, if indeed my memory serves me correctly (???).

I don't feel anyone was robbed or there was some sort of dark conspiracy, it's just the way it is. The race is about many things, but 3 in particular: The Machine, The Driver and The Strategy. One team had all 3.

Having said that I feel that in hindsight it may have been preferable to have red flagged the race at lap 53 and then restarted for a final 4-5 laps.

Best
JA

ChrisD (Chris) · #30 20-12-2021, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JA

Apparently (and people can search for a reference) the F1 teams agreed at the start of the season that it was desirable to finish races under green flag (racing) conditions. This presumably is to avoid the appalling look of a precession behind the safety car all the way to the chequered flag. Mercedes didn't factor that in to their team's strategy and left Hamilton out there to maintain track position some 5 laps before the end of the race, whilst RedBull pitted Verstappen for tyres as the Latifi crash was cleaned up. In fact as I recall the radio discussions during those closing stages, Hamilton I seem to recall asked his team if he could/should pit for tyres and they advised against it, stating that he should maintain track position. I'll see if I can find that conversation/video snippet, if indeed my memory serves me correctly (???).

I don't feel anyone was robbed or there was some sort of dark conspiracy, it's just the way it is. The race is about many things, but 3 in particular: The Machine, The Driver and The Strategy. One team had all 3.

Having said that I feel that in hindsight it may have been preferable to have red flagged the race at lap 53 and then restarted for a final 4-5 laps.

Best
JA

I don't think it was a conspiracy, in-fact, has anyone on this thread suggested that it was?

You're right, there was an expressed preference by the teams to complete the race under green flag conditions, but that doesn't override the rules. In AFL or NRL no-one is happy with a draw at full time, but you wouldn't like the ref. ignoring the rules of the game so you get a winner.

As for red flagging the race, the rules state:
If Competitors or officials are placed in immediate physical danger by cars running on the track,
and the clerk of the course deems circumstances are such that the track cannot be negotiated
safely, even behind the safety car, the race will be suspended.

Clearly, the red flag is only to be used if it is unsafe for cars to circulate even under the safety car. You cant use the red flag just to give the fans a good finish.

Chris

JA · #31 20-12-2021, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisD

I don't think it was a conspiracy, in-fact, has anyone on this thread suggested that it was?

You're right, there was an expressed preference by the teams to complete the race under green flag conditions, but that doesn't override the rules. In AFL or NRL no-one is happy with a draw at full time, but you wouldn't like the ref. ignoring the rules of the game so you get a winner.

As for red flagging the race, the rules state:
If Competitors or officials are placed in immediate physical danger by cars running on the track,
and the clerk of the course deems circumstances are such that the track cannot be negotiated
safely, even behind the safety car, the race will be suspended.

Clearly, the red flag is only to be used if it is unsafe for cars to circulate even under the safety car. You cant use the red flag just to give the fans a good finish.

Chris

The Race Director and officials can decide if things are unsafe or not and experienced enough that they don't need it codified by rules to be sure - they can use their discretion. If there is debris on the track which can cause punctures AND nearly half the width of the track is obscured by a car sideways on the track, then that's not so ideal, as an understatement. That car has to be maneuvered or craned off the track. They are all dangerous obstacles even in an inert state, as in the terrible case of the death of Jules Bianchi may years ago on colliding with the recovery crane which was still on side of the track clearing a previous accident. Different circumstances, but it all stemmed from responding to/cleaning up after another car. My suggestion centered around safety. Despite that it would also have allowed 4-5 laps of racing, tyre change for those that needed it and I feel a less controversial result, given the fact that the drivers would have had more time and opportunities to attack and counterattack rather than just 1 lap.

Of course opinions differ.

Best
JA

ausastronomer (John Bambury) · #32 19-02-2022, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Without question this was one of the most apalling decisions I have seen made in over 50 years of watching professional and amateur sport.

Quote:

As I said in an earlier post "Michael Masi will be in the stands selling hot dogs next year".

Quote:

I don't want to be buying shares in Michael Masi.

Guess who's applying for a job selling hot dogs in the grandstand for the upcoming formula 1 season ?

I guess that was to be expected when your own importance and making a spectacle of the event, is more important than "the rules", fair play and the reputation and public image of the people that invented the car!

Cheers
John B

Andy01 (Andy) · #33 19-02-2022, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Guess who's applying for a job selling hot dogs in the grandstand for the upcoming formula 1 season ?

I guess that was to be expected when your own importance and making a spectacle of the event, is more important than "the rules", fair play and the reputation and public image of the people that invented the car!

Cheers
John B

Whilst you are entirely entitled to your own opinion, might I suggest reading this excellent article which presents a more balanced perspective.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2022/02/18...mula-1-demise/

astroron (Ron) · #34 19-02-2022, 10:17 PM

This the final paragraph from that article.
It is a load of poppycock.

Michael was and remains a world class race director. The challenges thrown in front of him were simply insurmountable, and it is unfortunate that it is he who paid the price in that lesson being learned.

All as Michael Masi had to do was follow
the rules that he as director was paid to
administer.
Not make up his own rules
When advised of his error by Toto Wolff
gruffly replied "it's called racing Toto".
FI and Liberty media had stipulated that
they didn't want the race to finish under
the "Safety Car" which Masi duly provided even
though it was the wrong thing to do.
His actions brought the sport of F1 racing
into disrepute.
BTW this article keeps mentioning mistakes,
they were not mistakes they were a deliberate acts
Cheers