That's a good point, one advantage of using headphones is that you can eliminate the shortcomings of the listening room. It's also a great way to get into the detail of the music. And yes, it's difficult to equalise a room, but you can reduce reflections between the speaker and listening position, and there are excellent bass traps that can tame at least some of the resonant frequencies. These two measures alone can make a big difference
My only comment is before spending up big is to test your own hearing. I have reasonable audio equipment but have not been using it as much as in the past.
I know my hearing is reduced compared to when I was young. I recently did a simple test with my kids using a frequency generator easily found on multiple websites. I could not hear anything above 10000hz whilst my 20+ yr kids could hear up to 18000hz. This was very disappointing. Testing very low sound was harder to do as the little speakers on my computer couldn't play them so neither I or the kids could hear them.
My point is spending up to hear the theoretical extra 2% of fidelity when your own hearing is compromised is probably not worth the effort.
That's a good point, one advantage of using headphones is that you can eliminate the shortcomings of the listening room. It's also a great way to get into the detail of the music. And yes, it's difficult to equalise a room, but you can reduce reflections between the speaker and listening position, and there are excellent bass traps that can tame at least some of the resonant frequencies. These two measures alone can make a big difference
I know how they equalise a room at say a pub for a band to play.
They use a 32 band graphic equalizer and they can see it come up as red
on a channel that is resonating with the building.
They simply turn that channel down till it's in the green area.
That way they have control over 32 frequency bands in the audio range.
I don't know anyone who can do that at home?
I can highly recommend the Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Integrated amplifier, from the early 2000s. That's the Nu-Vista M3 integrated....there is a newer version out, the Nu-vista 800, currently priced around $18K, so that's a bit beyond your budget, although it's an excellent amp.
So the Nu-Vista M3 has a nu-vista valve pre-amp section linked to a solid state power amp...pumping out about 275 watts RMS., giving a very tube like sound with a good phono section thrown in.
Just be aware that it is a two box integrated....the amplifier proper (in one box) and an outboard power supply in a second box. A bit strange that an integrated amp should have two boxes, but that's the way they were built.
Cheers, all being equal it should all arrive this week... looking forward to first hearing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by xelasnave
Congratulations Carlton from what I can see you will have a very nice system. Where will you put it..do you have a special room?
Alex
Thanks Alex, I believe it should be good, yes... not necessarily bigger & better than what I have but, different.. & that was the aim of going down the valve amplification path...
It's setup in the spare room, alongside my bass rig... not a particularly large room hence, no desire for stupid amounts of power output...
My current setup is pictured below... the new amp will replace the one on the left which is in need of a thorough service & possibly some capacitor replacement... I will then put it away for my son so he has a nice starting point to a quality hifi setup when he moves out...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrophe
I can highly recommend the Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista Integrated amplifier, from the early 2000s. That's the Nu-Vista M3 integrated....there is a newer version out, the Nu-vista 800, currently priced around $18K, so that's a bit beyond your budget, although it's an excellent amp.
So the Nu-Vista M3 has a nu-vista valve pre-amp section linked to a solid state power amp...pumping out about 275 watts RMS., giving a very tube like sound with a good phono section thrown in.
Just be aware that it is a two box integrated....the amplifier proper (in one box) and an outboard power supply in a second box. A bit strange that an integrated amp should have two boxes, but that's the way they were built.
I'd love to move from my Musical Fidelity A3 SS to a Musical Fidelity valve amp... I looked at their valve amps longingly when I purchased the A3 over twenty years ago... couldn't afford it then, can't now either...
The PrimaLuna's seem to have acquired a good reputation having been around now since 2003. Dutch/German design but, like most things these days, manufactured in China which.. keeps the cost to the purchaser down...
I'll update the thread once I've set it all up & had a good listen & then again, once the valves are nicely burnt in...
My next challenge is to replace my ageing Jensens with something that is easily driven by a modest valve amp...
There are a number of Australian made speakers I'm having a bit of a look at.. particularly these:
Those speakers look interesting Carlton. Efficient transmission line speakers can go really well with valve amps. The folded horn Impulse H6's and Audio Innovations valve gear I had years ago sounded really nice. Looking forward to reading your impressions of your new amp. I remember the nu vista series! It was out of my league at the time and probably still is. Musical Fidelity have always made nice gear.
Cheers, all being equal it should all arrive this week... looking forward to first hearing...
Thanks Alex, I believe it should be good, yes... not necessarily bigger & better than what I have but, different.. & that was the aim of going down the valve amplification path...
It's setup in the spare room, alongside my bass rig... not a particularly large room hence, no desire for stupid amounts of power output...
My current setup is pictured below... the new amp will replace the one on the left which is in need of a thorough service & possibly some capacitor replacement... I will then put it away for my son so he has a nice starting point to a quality hifi setup when he moves out...
I'd love to move from my Musical Fidelity A3 SS to a Musical Fidelity valve amp... I looked at their valve amps longingly when I purchased the A3 over twenty years ago... couldn't afford it then, can't now either...
The PrimaLuna's seem to have acquired a good reputation having been around now since 2003. Dutch/German design but, like most things these days, manufactured in China which.. keeps the cost to the purchaser down...
I'll update the thread once I've set it all up & had a good listen & then again, once the valves are nicely burnt in...
My next challenge is to replace my ageing Jensens with something that is easily driven by a modest valve amp...
There are a number of Australian made speakers I'm having a bit of a look at.. particularly these:
A compact speaker with an amazing punch....and totally musical.
Another consideration for your Prima Luna valve amp...and depending on the type of music you listen to....would be a well-sorted pair of Quad 57 Electrostatic speakers. If you listen to vocal, jazz, classical, they are unbeatable. A bit left of centre these days...they were released by Quad in 1957...they consistently top the lists of the world's all time best speakers, and even after 60 years, they are superb at what they do best....MUSIC. A good (refurbished) pair of Quad 57s from the mid 1970s would cost about $3K or so:
A compact speaker with an amazing punch....and totally musical.
Another consideration for your Prima Luna valve amp...and depending on the type of music you listen to....would be a well-sorted pair of Quad 57 Electrostatic speakers. If you listen to vocal, jazz, classical, they are unbeatable. A bit left of centre these days...they were released by Quad in 1957...they consistently top the lists of the world's all time best speakers, and even after 60 years, they are superb at what they do best....MUSIC. A good (refurbished) pair of Quad 57s from the mid 1970s would cost about $3K or so:
Thanks John,
I'll take a look at those BR1's... my current speakers rate at 92db sensitivity (allegedly) so, we'll see how well the new amp drives them first....
Googled the Quad 57's... my god.. they'd take up half my spare room.. They certainly look a little different... I've never listened to Electrostats... must remedy that one day...
...
Googled the Quad 57's... my god.. they'd take up half my spare room.. They certainly look a little different... I've never listened to Electrostats... must remedy that one day...
Definitely try and have a listen one day, they are remarkable, especially The Quad ESL which reveals an incredible amount of inner detail in the music with no boxy loudspeaker colouration. They have their limitations of Sound Pressure Level and extreme low bass, but these can be overcome by stacking 2 or more pairs for greater output and bass as well as adding a good subwoofer with an electronic crossover to high pass the Quads from anywhere in the 40-80Hz, to suit your taste.
I have a Double stacked set currently in storage until the day I finally finish our renovations and listening room that I will modify further into a modern monolith type look. The QUAD ESL was sometimes custom-stacked by it's owners, except for one uber expensive commercial version in the 1970s: The Mark Levinson HQD. Here are some pics of various stacked QUADS for interest..... https://mniec.wordpress.com/2013/02/...akers-gallery/
The look is very 1970s or earlier, but the sound is .... I'll quote the "Audio Critic Magazine":
"With the two panels six to seven feet apart (centre to centre) and angled slightly inward, and with a single auditioner sitting perfectly centred about six to eight feet back from the speakers, NOTHING - repeat, NOTHING! we know of equals the transparency and definition of the Quads. NOTHING. The speakers seem to disappear; only the music is left. All other speakers are slightly coloured by comparison...."
I'll take a look at those BR1's... my current speakers rate at 92db sensitivity (allegedly) so, we'll see how well the new amp drives them first....
Googled the Quad 57's... my god.. they'd take up half my spare room.. They certainly look a little different... I've never listened to Electrostats... must remedy that one day...
Cheers
Quote:
Originally Posted by JA
Definitely try and have a listen one day, they are remarkable, especially The Quad ESL which reveals an incredible amount of inner detail in the music with no boxy loudspeaker colouration. They have their limitations of Sound Pressure Level and extreme low bass, but these can be overcome by stacking 2 or more pairs for greater output and bass as well as adding a good subwoofer with an electronic crossover to high pass the Quads from anywhere in the 40-80Hz, to suit your taste.
I have a Double stacked set currently in storage until the day I finally finish our renovations and listening room that I will modify further into a modern monolith type look. The QUAD ESL was sometimes custom-stacked by it's owners, except for one uber expensive commercial version in the 1970s: The Mark Levinson HQD. Here are some pics of various stacked QUADS for interest..... https://mniec.wordpress.com/2013/02/...akers-gallery/
The look is very 1970s or earlier, but the sound is .... I'll quote the "Audio Critic Magazine":
"With the two panels six to seven feet apart (centre to centre) and angled slightly inward, and with a single auditioner sitting perfectly centred about six to eight feet back from the speakers, NOTHING - repeat, NOTHING! we know of equals the transparency and definition of the Quads. NOTHING. The speakers seem to disappear; only the music is left. All other speakers are slightly coloured by comparison...."
Best
JA
Guys, I had a pair of Quad 57s for 40 years. When I moved into a retirement unit, I had no room for them, so reluctantly I had to part with them. It was like getting a divorce, with about the same degree of trauma.
I then moved onto the Wyndham Audio BR1s and while they are not the 57s, they are perhaps the next best thing and made right here in Oz.....as good and anything made overseas and often even better at the same price point.
I still miss the 57s...there's just nothing that compares to them and considering they were designed in the mid 1950s, that is really saying something. Peter Walker (the designer) was an audio genius and his creations are now the stuff of legends. Oh how I miss my 57s. Cheers.
Last edited by Astrophe; 04-01-2021 at 03:29 PM.
Reason: typo
Well, for those interested my PrimaLuna valve amp was delivered yesterday & setup in my spare room.
It has no trouble driving my Jensen QX2 35s... there is a choice of 4 or 8Ohm taps so, after a bit of googling, I decided to use the 4Ohm tap into my 'nominal' 6Ohm speakers...
The sound out of the box is sweet; I won't say there is a massive difference between what my A3 produces & what the PL gives me but, there are some subtle differences that, IMHO are really nice.
High highs are less harsh, not so shrill at their peak.. vocals, particularly female are warmer and more relaxed.
Plenty of bass, nice & tight with plenty of warmth & sustain, no loss in that department & the mids are just beautiful, a touch more clarity in the mids & just a warmer more mellow, even tone. This is running the stock EL34 power tubes which, although not yet 'burned in' still sound quite sweet out of the box. I'll be interested to see how the tonal character changes over time...
It has plenty of volume for the room I use it in & seems quite capable of producing 'neighbour annoying' volumes without any sign of clipping...
One thing I have noticed, these tube amps run hot, very... I had read about this but, you don't realise how warm/hot they get from just reading about it...
The idea of 'tube rolling' is already in my mind... considering a matched set of Genalex KT88's for comparison with the stock EL34s
Unfortunately, the second part of the package hasn't yet arrived so, with no phono stage at present, i can't comment on how my vinyl sounds... I'll update that aspect when it arrives...
My Musical Fidelity A3 is certainly no slouch in terms of a high quality SS amplifier but, valves just seem to add a subtle warmth to the music & a touch more clarity in certain registers...
In short, could not be happier with my purchase at this early stage... it's certainly added a tonal quality to my listening that is indeed very enjoyable without colouring the artists recording intent...
Excellent Carlton, it's always pleasing to buy new equipment and find that you are happy with it. Alas, it's not always the case. Most of us who have been around audio for some little time, have had a number of experiences with new purchases that don't always live up to what is claimed for them....or the new gear sounds completely different from the way it sounded in the dealers showroom. Be interested in your impressions of the phono stage when it arrives.
hi carlton i am a bit late to this party, though i have been following it since the beginning
at first i was going to add my 2 cents worth in on the amplifier, but you had your mind set on the valves which is fine
i find the valves a bit "slow" and less engaging, however i have not heard any modern ones
i run an accuphase power and pre which i would not part with and i am very happy with my system as a whole, but two areas i will spend money on soonish is to do more research into speaker cables and, like you am very interested in a separate phono stage though the built in phone mc setting on my accuphase seems extremely good
for something different i would certainly audition a valve phono stage, but i am open to either
one important thing when considering the turntable is to think seriously about having an external motor and belt to turn the platter
this has been the major difference for me in quietness of my prescious records
up until about 5 years ago i had my rega 3 since 1982 and with moderate to higher volumes the motor underneath turning the spindle used to rumble and of course then the cartridge picked it up and magnified it and so clarity was lost at even moderate volumes no matter how isolated from vibration the deck was
i have never heard a quieter turntable than the one i have now ( the project evolution 10.1) with it's outboard motor, whisper quiet even on higher volumes except of course for the wonderful pops of records
next, do not under estimate mass in a platter, the best dampening of them all (except for the magnificent suspension from a thorens!)
i also have the wonderful ortofon kontrapunkt A moving coil
DON'T SCRIMP ON YOUR SPEAKERS, this could let all of your hard earned a big waste in my books
in the 80's a good pair of speakers made an average system sound better, now though i start with the pointy (literally) end of things with a good cartridge and styli
look out for a decent second hand pair of brits i reckon
i have had my celestion ditton 66's since 1982 also and i love them to bits, very efficient on low volumes with amazing clarity
pat
hi carlton i am a bit late to this party, though i have been following it since the beginning
at first i was going to add my 2 cents worth in on the amplifier, but you had your mind set on the valves which is fine
i find the valves a bit "slow" and less engaging, however i have not heard any modern ones
i run an accuphase power and pre which i would not part with and i am very happy with my system as a whole, but two areas i will spend money on soonish is to do more research into speaker cables and, like you am very interested in a separate phono stage though the built in phone mc setting on my accuphase seems extremely good
for something different i would certainly audition a valve phono stage, but i am open to either
one important thing when considering the turntable is to think seriously about having an external motor and belt to turn the platter
this has been the major difference for me in quietness of my prescious records
up until about 5 years ago i had my rega 3 since 1982 and with moderate to higher volumes the motor underneath turning the spindle used to rumble and of course then the cartridge picked it up and magnified it and so clarity was lost at even moderate volumes no matter how isolated from vibration the deck was
i have never heard a quieter turntable than the one i have now ( the project evolution 10.1) with it's outboard motor, whisper quiet even on higher volumes except of course for the wonderful pops of records
next, do not under estimate mass in a platter, the best dampening of them all (except for the magnificent suspension from a thorens!)
i also have the wonderful ortofon kontrapunkt A moving coil
DON'T SCRIMP ON YOUR SPEAKERS, this could let all of your hard earned a big waste in my books
in the 80's a good pair of speakers made an average system sound better, now though i start with the pointy (literally) end of things with a good cartridge and styli
look out for a decent second hand pair of brits i reckon
i have had my celestion ditton 66's since 1982 also and i love them to bits, very efficient on low volumes with amazing clarity
pat
Cheers Pat, you are correct, I was very keen to head down the tube path.. I can't comment on more vintage era valve gear but, this Primaluna seems extremely good for the money. No idea what I might be missing in say a McIntosh or similar but, my wallet suggests I probably never will..
I googled the Pro-ject 10 Evolution, my.. what a beast.. thankyou for your advice on turntables.. I will keep an eye out on the Stereo Net forum & see what turns up...
Now that I'm satisfied that the new amp can drive my existing speakers in a satisfactory manner, I have more time to consider my future options & save some coin to possibly set my sights a little higher.. there are some bargains that turn up on Stereo Net, much like here for astro gear so, I'll be keeping a close eye on what comes up..
However, like I mention below.. nowhere to audition up here... I have to work on reviews, opinions and advice & then, take a punt...
Quote:
Originally Posted by blindman
Once you hear electrostats, there is no way back to boxes (eventually Sonus Faber or Serblin - but for these you have to get a loan from the bank).
Just do not buy Rega Turntable. I had one. Not that bad, but there are much better for similar money (try through Forum).
Good luck
Cheers, anything specific you might suggest to keep an eye out for in terms of turntables? I've joined Stereo Net.. plenty of nice (and sometimes expensive) gear appears to change hands on that forum...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrophe
Excellent Carlton, it's always pleasing to buy new equipment and find that you are happy with it. Alas, it's not always the case. Most of us who have been around audio for some little time, have had a number of experiences with new purchases that don't always live up to what is claimed for them....or the new gear sounds completely different from the way it sounded in the dealers showroom. Be interested in your impressions of the phono stage when it arrives.
Thanks John, indeed... it's even a bit more of a gamble for me as there is simply nowhere I can practically go to audition gear. We used to have 3 genuine hifi stores up here, now we have none.
Carlton, I lived up in Cairns in the late 1970s. I bought quite a bit of gear through Targa Hi Fi. I guess they're not around anymore. Back then, they used to stock some really good gear. I recall buying a Fons turntable with an SME arm and Shure V15 type 1V cartridge from them. Fons was a Scottish brand and no longer in existence. A shame really, because they made excellent TTs. I must have spent quite a bit of money at Targa Hi Fi....Fons/SME/Shure were all fairly expensive back then. Cheers.
Excellent news that you are happy with the amp Carlton, sounds like you may need a trip to Brisbane at some point to audition some gear! There are a couple of decent hi fi shops left here. It has been interesting reading what gear other people have and have had over the years. After a long journey including an Audio Innovations valve set up / Pink Triangle Export TT in the 80's I ended up with a Quad 99 CDP / 99 Pre / 909 Power and 2805 Electrostatics which I am very happy with, although it is very difficult resisting the temptation to audition new things! Really enjoying everybody's contributions to this thread.
