I will say it again . This tread is about a private company spending its own money over the next couple of years on a significant power system based on solarPV, a big battery and pumped hydro. They will do so because that approach represents the best and cheapest technology for future power generation.
Hi Ray,
Thanks for the story.
Who would have thought a billionaire would know anything about making lots of money?
Particularly one that would seek out failed businesses, acquire them and turn them around and make a profit?
Or that they would be willing again to put some of that money where their mouth is?
I will say it again . This tread is about a private company spending its own money over the next couple of years on a significant power system based on solarPV, a big battery and pumped hydro. They will do so because that approach represents the best and cheapest technology for future power generation.
This is not a decision by the LNP, the SA government, or the Greenies, although they should all welcome it.
Hi Ray...
I think most of here understand the point to the extent that it would be redundant for us to labour it any further...
On somewhat of a tangent, iirc) as far back as 2015, private utility scale solar ventures were winning contracts in Saudia Arabia by virtue of cost alone.
The Saudi's may be many things but stupid isn't one of them. They are fully conscious that every kWh produced by solar is a kWh of crude oil they can put on a ship instead.
The lens through which this debate has been conducted has everything to do with preferred belief and nothing to do with reality. Belief statements such as those being put forward by the protagonists cannot be either proven or shown in error as they are belief statements.
Good science, on the other hand, is never hamstrung by belief, science, good science is always unfettered by belief. Your arguments seek to link Science with preferred belief.
Ray, you may want all our electricity generated by Green preferencing New Age Pixies but as of this moment in time, if you want electrical power and you want a lot of it 24/7 and you want that power cheap, burn coal. Australia's latte drinking set is dependant upon those Coal laden ships that leave the Port of Newcastle every 1/2 hour.
At this juncture your breathlessly waiting to pounce and denounce the gross and politically incorrect position of proposing that Coal is burnt to generate power. Coal is dirty, Gas is a viable and affordable alternative that will keep the lights on even when the Pixies run out of puff and the windmills stop turning.
It's impossible for everyone to be employed in a Public Service job. We actually need to generate some income. Certainly, we can do as we are currently doing and mortgage our Children's, Children's prosperity against ever-expanding National and Individual debt but even that desperate ploy has an end date.
As of this moment, the harsh reality is.... We have the most expensive electricity in the developed world. This make manufacturing more difficult, it makes business more difficult and has delivered chilblains upon my Mother Inlaws toes.
South Australia, that great economic powerhouse of our Nation may decide to use AA batteries for everything conceivable purpose, that does not make using AA batteries a good idea. When you run a deficit the Piper must at some time be paid, the realities can be hidden by sleight of hand borrowing from the National Grid, but at some time, most likely a hot day this Summer, it will turn to crap.
Good science, the science that changes the world, leads us literally out of the darkness isn't dependent upon argument, it stands on its own two feet and is a beacon for all. All this talk of batteries has the decided whiff of Hyperloops and Monorails and as for benevolent Capitalists, the Easter Bunny will be delivering presents this Christmas.
today is a fine windy day in SA and we are currently running on ~80% renewables with some gas as a standby. The graph shows the huge price advantage of renewables - this is cheap power and something to look forward to more often in future. It also shows one of the downfalls of renewables in that overproduction penalises the producers, since there is currently nowhere to store the excess (literally) for a rainy day.
The pumped hydro system (and to a lesser extent the battery) noted in the first post will go part way towards solving such problems in 2020 and beyond - it won't smooth out supply/demand in less beneficial conditions this summer, but it is another step in the right direction. We have just spent a long time under the illusion that a market mechanism was a substitute for policy - industry now seems to be finding ways to bypass the resulting logjam and get us back on the most cost effective track - thankfully.
Enthusiasm is a good thing, enthusiasm for renewables is fine along as you don't have anything time critical to do or industry to run. When the Vic grid gets stressed and SA is deigned access to the Vic grid, SA will again fall into darkness. The longer SA is deigned access to the Vic/National Grid the more serious will the situation become until it inevitably develops full-blown emergency Statewide emergency and innocent lives are lost but wait, that's already happened has it not? Or was all that talk of SA power outages Fake News?
SA is dependant upon the good graces of the National Grid. In saying that SA uses 80% renewables is very much like the Germans saying that they will no longer use Nuclear Power. When the Germans' closed their Nuclear Plants they began drawing more & more of their total electrical power from French Nuclear Power plants. The German's are no more non-nuclear than the French. Does it make the Pixies' feel good that the German Nuclear plants have been turned off? Of course, the Pixies are happy.
Renewables are about perception, the perception that something other than what actually happening is happening.
At some point in time renewables may become reliable and cost-effective, until then we must walk a tightrope, balancing Carbon emissions against a "greater good". The more honest we are, the less we spin the story the sooner we will get to the point where renewables are a stand-alone, cost-effective solution to power generation. Until such time that renewables are cost effective my dear Mother Inlaw's chilblains will continue.
Renewables are about perception, the perception that something other than what actually happening is happening.
Which brings us neatly back to the thrust of this thread. What is actually happening is that a private company has just announced a major investment, of their own funds, in solar PV, a battery and pumped hydro in South Australia. Industry is stepping up to the plate to support the transition to a renewable future and they are doing so for financial reasons - nothing at all to do with enthusiasm, just realism.
The power companies and the banks have indicated no interest in new coal generators - the perception that there is a viable long term alternative to renewables simply does not reflect what is actually happening. There is a lot of hard work to do to make the new technologies work at their best as they gradually take over from the ageing coal generators. There will obviously be some hard lessons along the way, but let's at least put our efforts into something with a future.
Ray, I have no issue with your last post. My concern is and remains, we don't delude ourselves into the irrational belief we have found the solution to our necessary energy transition.
For God's sake..... SA has the answer to power? .... SA can become the Blueprint for the entire World? I am not the deluded one, the Emperor needs some clothes and fast.
The minute SA is cut off from the National grid SA will slide headlong into a desperate Blackout, you know, the minute SA cutoff from the lifeblood of the grid.
Gentlemen, enjoy a reality check, enjoy a cool drink, relax whilst the National Grid keeps the dreams and aspirations of SA Power Pixies alive though clearly a little confused & bewildered.
Gday David
When the first steam engines came about, people said it would never work.
When the first biplane took off people said it would never work
When the first monoplanes were designed, people said they would never work.
Wne the first "motorised" buggies were invented, people said they would never work.
When the first desktop computers came about, people said they would never work.
The transition to renewable energy will follow the same path.
It wont take long ( as long as there is a dollar to be made ).
And in other FOX news... a recent study (funded by coca cola amatil) has found that in any given 12 month period it is cheaper to drink coke twice a day than to clean your teeth and visit a dentist once a year... there is some debate about that.... But we'll just call that a conspiracy theory.
. This tread is about a private company spending its own money over the next couple of years on a significant power system based on solarPV, a big battery and pumped hydro. They will do so because that approach represents the best and cheapest technology for future power generation.
