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21-01-2017, 03:07 PM
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Ultimate Noob
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 7,013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cometcatcher
Dark skies may be giving way to lights but I see a greater uptake of narrow band imaging to go deeper and shoot through the LP.
Now if someone could just invent a way to shoot through clouds for optical astronomy...
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PixInsight will have an obscure plugin for that like HighPassMorphologicalErrosion in the next update
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21-01-2017, 03:11 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Junortoun Vic
Posts: 8,927
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Ben,
The good news is that's standard practice in the world of spectroscopy.
Light pollution effectively doesn't exist for us - another benefit .......
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27-01-2017, 10:02 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,998
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I'm gonna bump this thread by Glend as I think it is worthy of more than the excellent, but relatively few responses to date. Surely you have some thoughts on where amateur astronomy is going in 2017 and beyond?
So lets be controversial and say amateur astronomy is going nowhere, beyond the millionth observation/images of M42 that's it? The Argo Navis is dead, EQ8 didn't measure up, most commercial optics that we can buy are the equivalent of the bottom of a ground coke bottle, really why bother anways there is much more interesting stuff to watch on TV. Astro clubs are hardly of any value anymore and IIS general discussion is more interesting than all the other topics combined. Maybe the classifieds will be a happy hunting ground for those (few??) of us who are intending to make 2017 a great year for amateur astro. Surely with 10,000 members we can do better than less than 25 replies. What are you doing and where, as amateur astronomers are we going in 2017?
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27-01-2017, 10:20 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Killara, Sydney
Posts: 4,147
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The USAF "wall of fire" flying laser cannons (now retired) will be sold on eBay. An enterprising amateur will pick one up for $1 and adapt it to making holes in clouds as a means of beating the weather in Sydney. Also serves as an active adaptive optic.
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03-02-2017, 12:43 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Vic, NSW, Qld, Australia
Posts: 29
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Perhaps we can make a (r)evolution. As well as waiting for one.
In reply to Richard ……What you raised was so apt. Replying here, deemed still on-topic.
Visual and low-res processing have value in their own right and also the starting point for –o-scopy.
One possible path to take:
- Yes, stick a grating on. Start with bright stars. Some people say Woww, some people say disappointed. Explore and enjoy for yourself. Plenty of info and helpers. Read posts in fora, especially on IIS ‘…methane on Neptune’ and ‘I found a Wolf Rayet…’ on the spectroscopy sub-forum, for starters.
- Show and tell everyone around you. We owe it to ourselves and Outreach audience, to see and to know the basics. Apart from the striking beauty of it, have everyone conversant on:
“This is how astronomers know so much about objects far far out there….”
- Get the numbers up. Help your club facilitate. Attend/organise workshops. Connect with others (like us) and help with producing sharable resource materials.
By these three, you will already be contributing plenty.
Then…
- Team up. Synergise. Divide work. Compare results. Post, present, submit low-res work. By then, you’ll have found out how (additional texts for this exist). Or sell the thing. (=pass it on.)
- If you then want to go further: next level of equipment, note what money people spend on imaging equipment etc etc etc, explore a team facility –that is what astronomy societies are about. SASER and at least one group (AAQ) are active. Read NACAA 2016 papers!!
It would be really great if you can be a cell, a light spot on a map. Let us make more light spots in all of the SH.
And every astronaut, every space probe has had people explore, experiment, fail, progress, inspire baby-astronauts, pave roads, make moon boots, make numbers.
Yes, Please stick a grating on.
.
Last edited by Southskyscience; 03-02-2017 at 05:58 PM.
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04-02-2017, 10:17 AM
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Farting Nebulae
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Tamleugh, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,410
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Yes an inspiring thread!
Advances in optics seem to be much slower than other tech. So software and computer related hardware has no bounds.
As an early adopter of the ASI1600 Im very excited by CMOS astro cam developments. Significant new features at far more affordable prices.
Software? Already Sharpcap has made my setup so easy.
Haha pixinsight, yes therell be an uber deconv script and 'correct oversaturation' process....
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04-02-2017, 12:44 PM
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PI cult member
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Flaxton, Qld
Posts: 2,078
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I think it's great seeing the (r)evolution with cameras happening. Essentially they're getting more effective and cheaper over time which is good.
What I would like to see is a similar process happening with mounts. Getting better tech into cheaper mounts, especially for portability. Lighter weight, higher capacity load, more stability (real AP capable), smarter mounts with quick setup times.
While I can't see it happening because of the whole niche market aspect, I think if it was cracked, this would open up astronomy to more people - those that are time and/or money poor.
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04-02-2017, 04:31 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Queensland
Posts: 3,240
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Pretty images is just one aspect of work done by amateur astronomers, nontheless it was interesting to browse through the very first images posted on IIS: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/f...ne=-1&page=557
What stood out for me is that images posted a decade or so ago were significantly less colourful - not sure whether that is a good or bad thing.
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04-02-2017, 05:08 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,918
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Assume that we will continue to take pretty pictures, and that they will continue to evolve. Beyond that though, there may be many areas where more of us could extend our very nice imaging equipment and do some science - preferably as part of a pro-am collaboration. There are probably quite a few remaining niches for relatively small scopes - the following is an initial summary of what these might be. Recent technological advances - extremely low read noise sensors, very high frame rate sensors, more affordable larger scopes - will enable new approaches in some of these areas. Would be very grateful for any corrections/additions
Imaging.
1. Deep imaging of galactic star halos/bridges and dwarf galaxies associated with nearby big ones.
2. Deep imaging of farther off interesting southern regions not covered by the SDSS, panSTARRS or any other deep surveys
3. comet discovery, imaging, possibly photometry
4. SN discovery, possibly photometry
5. minor planet/asteroid studies – photometry, occlusion
6. variable star photometry
7. exo-planet discovery
- transit
- microlensing
8. colour imaging for illustration in science/outreach activity
9. narrowband widefield surveys of the southern sky (Ha, O3, S2, N2...)
10. planetary lucky imaging
spectroscopy
1. high speed solar spectroscopy
2. comet spectra
3. interesting nearby star spectroscopy
4. nearby SN characterisation
phenomenology
1. seeing statistics
2. background sky brightness
3. cloud cover statistics
Last edited by Shiraz; 04-02-2017 at 06:48 PM.
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05-02-2017, 01:29 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Gold Coast
Posts: 377
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Big "like" to the posts so far....wish there was a 'Like' button here.
I'm not sure of the advances that will actually contribute to astronomical science in the coming year, my crystal ball batteries are running low. However, I am sure that determined and well thought out programs of investigation, and measurement combined with an 'Amateur/Pro " approach will continue to pay dividends into the future.
Peter Marples explained above how we, as members of the BOSS team, as well as the ASASSN team at the Ohio University have managed to connect with the professional community and I hope he imparted an understanding of the immense pleasure and pride we have of contributing to their efforts.It is certainly the reason that i continue to look up with a telescope!
I am also certain that amateurs can contribute through spectral measurements, it only takes patience, interest, and a bit of gear to make that happen!!
And don't forget, it is most important that you have fun and enjoy it!!
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05-02-2017, 04:39 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Junortoun Vic
Posts: 8,927
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Evolution to me means change....
In the field of spectroscopy, all the areas mentioned by Ray are already covered by current technology. The real issue is getting more interest in the community to take the effort to get actively involved in the scientific aspects rather than the obvious "thrill seeking - gratification"
It needs to start at the ground roots - ""Why is this so?"" Where's Sumner-Miller when you need him!
Interested kids and novices have the potential to grow up to be significant contributors to all areas of astronomical science.
Even with today's equipment there's much much more we could/ should be doing......
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05-02-2017, 04:43 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 648
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Meteor research.
The increasing ease with which amateurs can access subject matter expert analysis, visually confirm and report, makes it accessible to anyone with a computer and a working set of eyeballs.
Surprisingly little is known about southern hemisphere showers, so it's something any amateur astronomer can now make an important contribution to.
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05-02-2017, 04:59 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 648
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Asteroid discovery.
Once the domain of institutions, this can now be done by amateur astronomers, without actually needing to own your own telescope.
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05-02-2017, 06:11 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Queensland
Posts: 3,240
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Maybe adding a Spectroscopy section in the Images on IIS allowing people to post their attempts at capturing spectra of stars and planets would help to increase interest in this filed? What say you?
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05-02-2017, 07:17 PM
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Mostly harmless...
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 5,735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawomir
Four things that I have noticed are: refractors are getting faster, mass produced mounts are getting better, astro-capable cameras are getting cheaper and software allows to extract more out of the data. All of the above result in a gradual improvement in the quality of amateur astro images.
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+1. What a fantastic time to be an amateur "pretty picture" taking astronomer. We're so spoiled.
Any how grateful we should be for IIS. I'm sure I wouldn't have learned 1/10 as much in recent years without all the info here, and the new friends and contacts met along the way.
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05-02-2017, 11:32 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlin66
Evolution to me means change....
In the field of spectroscopy, all the areas mentioned by Ray are already covered by current technology. The real issue is getting more interest in the community to take the effort to get actively involved in the scientific aspects rather than the obvious "thrill seeking - gratification"
It needs to start at the ground roots - ""Why is this so?"" Where's Sumner-Miller when you need him!
Interested kids and novices have the potential to grow up to be significant contributors to all areas of astronomical science.
Even with today's equipment there's much much more we could/ should be doing......
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yep, that's what I was trying to suggest Ken - the evolution will be that more of us will start to become involved in areas outside of pretty picture imaging (even though that will remain the major activity). The list was just an attempt to mark out those niches where it might make sense for us to have a go.
possibly one of the biggest problems might be establishing meaningful contacts with appropriate professional astronomers - the days where an unsolicited email will get past an organisational firewall may well be over and even the downloading of data/images etc from non-professional sources could well be banned in major astro organisations.
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06-02-2017, 12:27 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Macquarie
Posts: 7,121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiraz
yep, that's what I was trying to suggest Ken - the evolution will be that more of us will start to become involved in areas outside of pretty picture imaging (even though that will remain the major activity). The list was just an attempt to mark out those niches where it might make sense for us to have a go.
possibly one of the biggest problems might be establishing meaningful contacts with appropriate professional astronomers - the days where an unsolicited email will get past an organisational firewall may well be over and even the downloading of data/images etc from non-professional sources could well be banned in major astro organisations.
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Ray, why can't IIS be that vehicle for meaningful contact. All that is needed is a subforum for the pros and IIS members to discuss projects and set up teams, etc. Even teams could have their own niche project space ( under login protection perhaps). Seems to me that given the discussion of collaboration in this thread, it could be a logical venue.
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06-02-2017, 12:58 AM
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Trivial High Priest
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 392
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The cost of high end optical accessories - in particular lenses has been falling. Also digital camera quality is always improving and dropping in price.
(also some of the telescope mounts you can buy now are just incredible for the price.)
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06-02-2017, 08:45 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Junortoun Vic
Posts: 8,927
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Glen/ Ray et al,
We, like the BOSS guys have already established contacts with the professionals and through our efforts have also established our credibility with quality submissions of spectra to their nominated campaigns.
All the professionals (and their research students) are highly supportive of our work and go out of their way to help us understand the significance of the spectral features we record for them.
Our group SASER (Southern Astronomical Spectroscopy Email Ring)
http://saser.wholemeal.co.nz/
supports all interested amateurs in serious spectroscopy.
Likewise I have a Yahoo group with almost 1000 members, Astronomical Spectroscopy for Amateurs
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...ctroscopy/info
which is an ideal platform for sharing both technical and observational information.
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07-02-2017, 07:10 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bright, Vic, Australia
Posts: 2,187
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I fell through the mirror the other night and here’s what I saw. The Hubble & the James Webb in the Smithsonian, curiosities from a bygone age that were rescued from space and are now amusing hordes of visitors. Vast volumes of data are now obtained by very low-cost satellites and with an extraordinary resolution & depth, unimaginable today (OK, I imagined it…  ). Spectra, photometry, you name it – and around the clock. No huge databases awaiting analysis, data streamed to Earth in unprecedented, staggering quantities and put through a fully-automated pipeline for near-real time results, dial-up whatever you want for instant home delivery! But you’ll never ever discover a comet or a supernova or a nova or an asteroid or a Jupiter-strike again.
The only areas where amateurs still contribute meaningfully are bright star photometry and meteor observing. This is only because bright stars continue to oversaturate the armada of space-based cameras and because, frankly, meteor showers don’t attract a lot of scientific interest. Consequently the IMO still survives but the AAVSO has perished, the few amateur observations now being uploaded directly to CBAT, which continues to cling doggedly to its long-outdated name. Astronomy science is pretty much an armchair exercise for amateurs these days, but what an exercise with all the mind-boggling new discoveries being made.
Astro-imaging has fallen from its fad status of the early 2000’s, killed by a glut of new-generation cheap cameras and software that enabled any mug to produce Hubble-quality images with no effort or knowledge at all. These images threatened to sink internet astronomy forums with their sheer volume but in the end no-one was impressed and few people bothered anymore. Sad.
Fortunately the simple fascination and thrill of actually eye-balling the wonders of the universe is something that technology couldn’t kill and visual observers abound. But it’s a hobby-at-a-distance for anyone living within cooee of Earth’s cities where barely a star is visible in the garish yellow night sky of the suburbs. The dark sky movements of the early 2000s were never quite able to reverse the growing light pollution. Astronomy tourism is a multi-billion dollar industry – dark sky parks abound (some darker than others!) and outreach is now principally carried out professionally. Saturn is still Saturn though and the oohs and aahs of people seeing it for the first time is the same now as it was in 2017, and was in 1950 and before.
I found the mirror again and stumbled back out. There I saw another mirror marked Trump + Climate Change but that was far too scary to even contemplate entering.  But what my little journey taught me was that I am so lucky to be living in this time. In my lifetime I’ve seen the first satellite into space, the first person into space, the first people on the Moon, the exploration of the solar system. In astronomy. I’ve seen major breakthroughs in our understanding of the Universe, the discovery of exoplanets and I’ve vicariously seen the surface of Pluto and distant comets. I’ve seen the transit of Venus, Halley’s Comet, a few Great Comets, a couple of Total Solar Eclipses, etc, all in an age that allows cheap and fast travel and has given us affordable telescopes and cameras that previous generations could only dream of. All with the Internet for learning and sharing, wow!!!!
Cheers -
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