Crunch time - Which Scope?

[Decimus (Richard)]

Hi, friends. Thanks for all your advice under my earlier thread ('Which Scope?). I have now reduced my quest for a new telescope to the following models (I do not wish to buy a large reflector of any type – that could come later) and would appreciate any feedback or experience any of you have had with them. I have read about them all, consulted one or two optical testing sites (where some dubious Strehl ratio claims appear) and have “narrowed” the field to these (not in any order of priority):

1. LZOS-APM 152mm APO triplet LW II (F7.9) - 3.5” Starlight focuser
2. CFF 160mm APO Triplet (F6.5) – 3.5” Starlight focuser
3. Takahashi TOA 150 APO triplet (F7.33) – great scope, weak focuser
4. CFF 140mm APO triplet (F6.5) - 3.5” Starlight focuser
5. Takahashi TOA 130NFB
6. Takahashi FSQ 130 ED APO quintuplet

I would put the Officina Stellare HiPer APO 130mm at the top of this list but, alas, It is no longer in production

Hardly a narrow list, I know...

My purpose is visual observing with the best quality refractor I can buy. What are your thoughts / experiences with any of these? I am going to make a decision by next week as this is becoming increasingly difficult.

[ab1963 (Andrew)]

That is like saying I don't know whether to buy a Bentley or a Rolls Royce you know that they are both exceptional cars in all aspects it is just down to those little things that make it more appealing to you,no different than the choices you have here with these top flight scopes,don't think you can make a mistake really

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Hi,

Don't worry too much, and regard your list as a progression, rather than a one-time choice! I predict you will desire another scope almost perpetually. I know I do. I say this even though I can see the rough equivalence in your listed possibilites.

Part of the enjoyment of astro for me was saying to myself "OK, I'm over dobs now, I want a scope I don't have to collimate"...........or......."Aper ture, more aperture"......then.........."This scope is too bloody big and heavy".

I've only been doing this stuff for 8 years, and have my 5th scope, and I think that is a slow turnover rate. The same applies to mounts, I had dobs, an alt-az, a Synscan EQ5 (then hated it), and so on.

Now if this sounds excessive, all but one piece was second-hand from here on IIS. Except for that one extravagance, my nett outlay has been modest. You can find almost anything you want here with a little patience, although haggling can be a sensitive process.

So pin the tail on the donkey, and plunge in!

Cheers

[Dealy (Kev)]

Gee I wish it was me making that choice

Like Andrew said you can't go wrong. And like Geoff said you'll probably want something different soon anyway.

If you can handle the size and weight I think bigger is always better.

Enjoy.

[scopey (Les)]

Hello Richard
I have a TOA 130,opticaly fantastic. The 150 TOA would also be fantastic, you could always put a feathertouch on it. If I had to
choose it would be between the APM LZOS and the Tak FSQ 130, just in case you want to do photography.
scopey.

[simmo]

Hi Richard,

I personally think you would be disappointed with any purchase right now Richard. Pressuring yourself into making a purchase will in the end, after the new purchase glow has worn off, leave you with a scope that you are not 100% happy with.

I think you are heading in the right direction as you narrowed the field to refractors.

I would agree with Geoff that there is progression in astronomy and the do it all scope is a unicorn.

[Atmos (Colin)]

Certainly a list that I wish I could afford

If you are planning on just using it for visual purposes then any stock focuser on one of these instruments (Feathtouch or not) will be more than enough. Having a very rigid focuser is more of an issue with the heavy loads of astrophotography when you NEED to minimise all forms of flexure.

For visual use I would usually say "The biggest that you feel you are going to be happy to lug" because lets face it, optically any telescope on your list will be a dream to look through. The FSQ 130 will potentially have a better field with wide eye pieces due to being internally flattened (no discernible field curvature).

I do remember your original thread but cannot remember a lot of it so I guess size also comes down to the cool down times. Are you wanting to setup and be ready to view quickly or would you plan on pulling all nighters? Larger refractors take longer to cool so you may get better views out of a smaller one than a bigger if you only plan on observing for short periods of time.

If you want to do imaging further down the road I would probably go with the FSQ 130 over the others because it is more plug and play; no need to get extra flatteners and then deal with spacing issues and the like.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Pretty much what ab1963 said was my first reaction. But on second thought (after deep breaths till the envy subsided), I'd be cautious about the CFF's - oil spaced lenses and a small Eastern European company. Not that I know much about high-end scopes like these. I use a TOA 150mm at work (for astronomy teaching at a uni) and I know you can't go far wrong with a Tak. So my uninformed vote would be for #3 (because of fear of the unknown with #2 & 4, have not even a clue about #1 but I like the fact that #3 is a bit faster. And #5 & 6 are aperture challenged.)

[casstony]

I'd choose the lightest of the six options. A 20-25 pound refractor is reasonably portable, a 30+ pound refractor becomes annoying to handle, even though you can pick up a 30 pound weight and it doesn't seem particularly heavy.

[issdaol (Phil)]

Originally Posted by Decimus

Hi, friends. Thanks for all your advice under my earlier thread ('Which Scope?). I have now reduced my quest for a new telescope to the following models (I do not wish to buy a large reflector of any type – that could come later) and would appreciate any feedback or experience any of you have had with them. I have read about them all, consulted one or two optical testing sites (where some dubious Strehl ratio claims appear) and have “narrowed” the field to these (not in any order of priority):

1. LZOS-APM 152mm APO triplet LW II (F7.9) - 3.5” Starlight focuser
2. CFF 160mm APO Triplet (F6.5) – 3.5” Starlight focuser
3. Takahashi TOA 150 APO triplet (F7.33) – great scope, weak focuser
4. CFF 140mm APO triplet (F6.5) - 3.5” Starlight focuser
5. Takahashi TOA 130NFB
6. Takahashi FSQ 130 ED APO quintuplet

I would put the Officina Stellare HiPer APO 130mm at the top of this list but, alas, It is no longer in production

Hardly a narrow list, I know...

My purpose is visual observing with the best quality refractor I can buy. What are your thoughts / experiences with any of these? I am going to make a decision by next week as this is becoming increasingly difficult.

Seeing you mention Visual I would go with 150 upwards and from personal experience the TOA150 is fantastic.

Only issue you will have is portability but if it is to be permanently mounted you will be fine as long as you have a good mount and tripod/pier.

Also you are much closer to dealers/support for Tak to ship to Japan should you ever need to.

On another point any reason why a TEC160 or TEC180 is not in the list ???

[issdaol (Phil)]

Just saw your earlier thread with a slightly different list of scopes and also noted your emphasis on portability.......

Taking that into account I would have to say the TOA130 would be the best option...... although Im not sure why you ruled out the Mewlon250CRS earlier ??? as that would be a nice option for visual too.

If you choose to go with a 150mm +scope you will definitely need a very stable tripod and mount....even for visual.

For some reason people seem to think that good mounts are only needed for astro-photography but I can assure you that a tripod and mount that is not stable when you are focussing or tracking will be extremely annoying !!


Also if you go for a 150mm+ scope will you really be confident handling it alone to setup each time......??? they are typically very front heavy and relatively long tube and will need to be in a good set of rings and a dovetail so you will be lifting the OTA+ Rings+Dovetail.

Will be a very expensive mistake to drop it !!!

[The Mekon (John Briggs)]

Originally Posted by issdaol

Seeing you mention Visual I would go with 150 upwards and from personal experience the TOA150 is fantastic.

Yes, TOA 150 would be my choice for your stated purpose. Why you are concerned about the focuser for visual, I don't know. I'm sure the Tak focuser will not have any problems.

I am a bit like you, I can also afford any scope on your list, but my best decision after many years observing with an Astro-Physics 130EDT, was to get a good reflector. In my case an 18" SDM with a Sutching mirror.
So Richard you see , if you maintain your passion for observing,you will come to the dark side and buy a reflector in the long run!

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by The Mekon

but my best decision after many years observing with an Astro-Physics 130EDT, was to get a good reflector. In my case an 18" SDM with a Sutching mirror.
So Richard you see , if you maintain your passion for observing,you will come to the dark side and buy a reflector in the long run!

What has changed in the past 3 years John?

I remember when you first got the 18" SDM from Phil, you continually argued with me that it didn't outperform your 130mm AP refractor and in fact you indicated you were somewhat dissappointed in its performance. I continually told you that I had used that scope on many occasions before you bought it and if it wasn't easily outperforming a 5" refractor you didn't have it set up correctly.

I guess you must have actually got it set up properly

Cheers
John B

[The Mekon (John Briggs)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

What has changed in the past 3 years John?

Cheers
John B

John, if every time I used my 18" was like last night, then I still may feel the same! Awful conditions last night where I am. Clear, but all stars like big blobs. Either it was the local seeing or my mirror could not cool down. Anyway I do feel different now, what has changed?
1. Bought a Paracorr!
2. Made a 7" off-axis mask for double stars. scope performs like an APO!
3. 17.3mm Delos seems to be the sweet eyepiece for me. When I posted previous opinions only had choice of 13mm nagler and 27mm Pan.
4. Observed a lot and had many great nights with the scope - nothing sees deep into the LMC & SMC like a big well made reflector.

Sorry Richard for going off topic - hope you enjoy your choice of refractor, but as I said, observe long enough and you will need that big reflector.

[Decimus (Richard)]

Thanks guys for the advice and interesting observations - there appear to be a lot of Tak supporters out there, not to mention afficionados of large-aperture reflectors. I am sticking with either option 1 or 2; the F7.9 APM-LZOS 152mm triple apo may well be the scope I buy - expensive but well made with premium Russian glass and a great focuser.
Cheers,
Richard

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

APO - A Putin Orthoscopic

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by Decimus

premium Russian glass

You mean strong Russian glass? Bил нoт pexк вэн ю cмeш oн poк.
Japanese glass not good enough?

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Decimus

there appear to be a lot of Tak supporters out there
Cheers,
Richard

Funny that !!! there's a very good reason for it. Hint It isn't cause they're cheap.

The TOA 150 is an exceptional visual telescope for a 6" scope. However, I am aware of one sample that arrived out of collimation and having the issue sorted by Texas Nautical in the US was like pulling teeth. Once it was sorted it performed superbly. The AP 160 which arrived at the same time as the TOA 150 is as good as it gets, but you would wait years for one.

Cheers
John B