anything popular with a lasting interest and oldish, Antiques have their own group of collectors. As far as Im concerned if its rubbish its rubbish, not a classic, not sure how I would apply that to a Unitron with a dud lens? (maybe just fix it?) so for me its Australian made, quirky home made or quality Japanese.
With cars anything over 25 years old is considered a classic; personally I think pre 80's would apply for telescopes. This was the time when commercial manufacturers like celestron and meade were battling for a market share while smaller manufacturers were struggling to compete with quality products but battling to keep a competitive price.
I think my 1975 cave optical "astrola" 8"f6 eq pier mounted newtonian with tube rotation rings and 240v RA motor drive is a classic in this sense. An orange tube celestron would also fit this category, but my old 10" f4.5 meade star finder "cardboard tube" dob is a functional novelty at best.
With cars anything over 25 years old is considered a classic; personally I think pre 80's would apply for telescopes......................... ..............
I think a pile of rubbish is a pile of rubbish no matter how old and shouldn't be classed as "Classic"..... there was some utter rubbish produced from the later 70's and on.
I read on Cloudy Nights that Some older C8s had poor optics, those made from about 1987 - 1990 so Id say the earlier ones are "classics" the later ones "parts"
Would some of the newer Takahashi's be classed as classics already? maybe Obsession 'scopes?
I'd agree on the Celestrons though its hard to pin down exactly when the good eras were . From what I have seen lately the SCT's coming out of China and the larger ones USA made are pretty good. I bought an orange one in 1979 which was reasonable though a friend who had one from '75 with the much heavier sand cast fork with the holes had superior optics.
I've got a 1000 page history of Celestron on CD which is full of detailed information on the various periods of SCT's and how they were tested . There was a certain jump in consistency when they employed interferometers in the 90's , although all the classic old ones were figured with nothing but a ronchi grating and looking at an artificial star - which in the hands of an honest optician works perfectly well.
One of the worst periods for SCT quality was during Halleys Comet - Celestron could not remotely keep up with orders and put just about anything out the door - I worked for a retailer during that period and we had a star test collimator and I took it upon myself to test and collimate everything I could ....some of those black tube C8's from that era were certainly not diffraction limited or anything like near it.
The term 'Classic' is defined by age as for cars eg but there are good 'Classics' and bad of course. You choose ( like any car nut ) what you prefer to collect.
Personally I do like the long f big white refractors, they just seem to embody the 'Classic' theme. Not that I can afford them ....
(I also like cars of a particular make, next one should be a Mitsi EVO X, not classic but awesome regardless )
For me, the quality long focus refractors hit the mark. Some of these from even the 1950s can still be found in good condition, whereas reflectors from this period are often very heavy and dated by todays standards.
I have a 60mm Unitron from the early 1970s and still enjoy using it. However, I have long ago traded away the non-parafocal Unitron eyepieces, which all had small fields (under 40 degrees).
So IMHO, there are classic refractors from the past that are arguably well-worth acquiring, but when it comes to eyepieces, the best ones, the future classics have been made in more recent times.
I guess you need to define classic from the perspective of classic quality or classic looks.
I used to own a `classic' - a Unitron 4" F15 - an older one with counterweight bar and three massive cases. I parted with it for the same reason that Vixen / Celestron killed Unitron company because it would not move with the times and start producing apo refractors - shorter colour free refrractors that the market was ready for .
The telescope was unweildy , inconvenient to use- it took my 30 minutes to set up and was hard to move around the yard The tripod and fork mount were massive . The contrast was a little poor with the fairly faded Mag flouride coatings . The field of view was narrow and the images fairly dim for deep sky viewing . At powers needed for serious lunar and planetary viewing such as X200 the purple colour fringing was becoming objectionable to me . The 1" eyepieces had a narrow field and lacked any contrast .
I borrowed a newly released 80mm F9 Vixen Flourite refractor to compare side by side and the views of the Moon and Planets and deep sky objects blew me away - crisp , colour free and contrasty . It was so easy to use and much more stable on its much smaller tripod If I had been older and wealthier I would have kept the Unitron as a display scope which would have got my pulse going everytime I laid eyes on it , because owning such a scope was stuff of my boyhood dreams .
Anyway I bought the flourite - stuck the Unitron in the trading post and got $400 for it ( 30 years ago ) and never looked back . It was certainly a `classic' but only from the rose coloured views of my boyhood dreams - not from a later perspective of the evolution of amateur telescopes .
whereas reflectors from this period are often very heavy and dated by todays standards.
I'll have to stickup for the poor old reflector.
Yes they were very heavy (duty), most had fibreglass tubes not thin light gauge steel, were available with coma free long focal length mirrors, tube rotation rings, and came with a heavy portable pier mount not the light weight tripods that are standard today.
The only real improvement with newer scopes is in the motor drive electronics and even then the motors and gears are a lot more noisy than the old drives. (You can of course "upgrade" your new reflector with a carbon fibre tube, rotation rings and a heavy pier type mount as expensive accessories.)
Yes they were very heavy (duty), most had fibreglass tubes not thin light gauge steel, were available with coma free long focal length mirrors, tube rotation rings, and came with a heavy portable pier mount not the light weight tripods that are standard today.
Most of the Australian made ones that I saw in 1960s had heavy metal tubes. Yay to long focal length mirrors though.
The mounts supplied by the Amateur Astronomy Supply company (later transformed into Astro Optical) were made locally here in Cairns by Laurie Hall. He also made the mirror cells. I visited his workshop several times as a teenager in the late 60s, but the engineering went over my head.
As Laurie said to me one when I was enthusing about the latest deep-sky object that I saw: "There are 2 different types of people here. You like looking through telescopes, I like making them."
I did buy an Eight inch F7 reflector in 1970, used it frequently and kept it for about 20 years. It was heavy though (particular the mount), so I purchased a new, 60mm Unitron in 1974 to enable quick viewing sessions, and still find uses for it.
I visited his workshop several times as a teenager in the late 60s, but the engineering went over my head.
Hi Bob
That must have been fascinating . Laurie has had a website but it doesn't seem to have been added to for a number of years - I trust he is still around ? http://www.turbofast.com.au/astrotel/index.html
Yes the reflectors of Hall era , from Amateur Astronomers Supply Co. were also a boyhood dream along with the Unitron 4" refractors . An 8" F7 always seemed attainable. I bought my second grinding kit to make one but decided on an F8 as it would be for a Dobsonian .
Most of the Australian made ones that I saw in 1960s had heavy metal tubes. Yay to long focal length mirrors though.
My bad, I was generalising a bit there, and my practical experience with astronomy only starts in the early 80's. I have a few catalogues and brochures from the late 70's and early 80's that I was referencing(Meade, celestron, cave optical and astro optical). I also have a samson mount (a resto project for later) and an old astro optical 8"f6 dob.
I lasted visited Laurie about 2 years ago and he was in poor health, but still living at home with his wife. I believe he is still alive and would now be in his early Nineties.
I lasted visited Laurie about 2 years ago and he was in poor health, but still living at home with his wife. I believe he is still alive and would now be in his early Nineties.
great bloke and a great engineer, I was writing to him for a while some time back to pick his brain he also made mirror grinding/polishing machines and gemstone machine's.
great bloke and a great engineer, I was writing to him for a while some time back to pick his brain he also made mirror grinding/polishing machines and gemstone machine's.
He had a great input into the history of Australian amateur astronomy for 20 odd years . Think about it - up to the late 50's Esdales Scientific Supply was the main source of telescopes in the country. The amateur aspired to owning a 4" to 6" refractor but probably never did . In the 1960's a 6" refractor was something like $3000 - the cost of a luxury car . A japanese made 6" reflector on an inadequate mount also cost a fortune ( A friend of mine bought a Tasco 6" catadioptric in the 70's for $3000 ).
Then Eric Whitcombe comes along in the early 60's and gets stuck into making mirrors and Hall making mounts and by the late 60's Amataur Astromomers supply Co offered 6 to 12" Newtonians and even a 12.5" Cassegrain on a massive mount ...and all at pretty reasonable prices - and they actually sold thousands of them . Aussie amateurs were spoilt for choice . As far as I know Hall mounts were used up into the late 70's and then the Samson mount came in - I don't know if Laurie was involved with that but I know the chief engineer for those was Alex Sterne in Melbourne .
The introduction of the C8 in the mid seventies spelled the end of the rein of the Newtonian at the time . I remember in the late 70's everyone I knew in the ASNSW literally owned a C8 - they were such a revolution in portability . The dobsonian and of course the low cost chinese imports took the Newtonian back up the ladder for the average astronomer - they undercut the price of a C8 by a factor of 4 !
............................ I remember in the late 70's everyone I knew in the ASNSW literally owned a C8 - they were such a revolution in portability . ............!
where are they now? Id like to have a play with one of the early ones.
I think it is actually a 12.5", according to the seller an excellent mirror.
It is a full thickness mirror.
He is looking to get $600 for the scope.
He has had several offers falling short of his target.
Would make a beautiful restoration project for a classic enthusiast.
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