Barlow or new eyepiece?

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

So I've come up with another question (they seem to be endless!) What do people recommend; getting a Barlow or investing in new eyepieces? I already have a 25mm and a 10mm eyepiece, but I honestly have no idea where to go from there. I'm hoping for something to get better planetary views that my 130p can handle.
thanks in advance

[OzStarGazer]

Hi again.

I had written this in the other thread:

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

In general people seem to think that it is better to have more eyepieces than using a Barlow. I find the Barlow to work OK (and I have a cheap one), for a beginner at least (although I agree that more eyepieces would be better).
PS: I have only used the Barlow for the moon.
PPS: The "long" 3x Barlow won't work well with our scope. I made the mistake of buying one and then had to buy a short one (incredibly cheap, but it still does an OK job on clear nights). (Luckily I also have another scope I can use the long one with.)

I will add here that it also depends on what you want to do. For astrophotography (afocal mode) an eyepiece is definitely better, but if you just want to "see" more details a Barlow will do at the beginning of the journey. Even cheap Barlows magnify, although the quality of the images could be better. BUT of course not only details are magnified, but also possible turbulences...

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

I do remember reading that I'm not interested in astrophotography, just viewing is enough for me. It would be nice to have something that can give me better views of the planets. Probably the max I would go with a barlow is 2x to keep as much image quality as possible. Would the scope be able to handle a 2x barlow with a 10mm eyepiece, do you think?

[OzStarGazer]

Originally Posted by BilliGoatsGruff

I do remember reading that I'm not interested in astrophotography, just viewing is enough for me. It would be nice to have something that can give me better views of the planets. Probably the max I would go with a barlow is 2x to keep as much image quality as possible. Would the scope be able to handle a 2x barlow with a 10mm eyepiece, do you think?

Only when the weather conditions are good... I did use a 2x Barlow a couple of times with the 10mm EP, particularly in my early days (which were just over a year ago... ). I now have a 6mm EP, so I usually use it on good days. But the Barlow should be OK too on good days (well, nights).

I find this resource very useful by the way:
http://www.stargazing.net/naa/scopemath.htm

You can enter the specs of your scope and it gives you all values as well as recommendations towards the end of the page. It says that the "optimum" magnification for our scope is 33 to 65, corresponding to 20 to 10mm eyepieces, but this would be the optimum magnification on any day. On very good days you can go a bit higher. (With the Barlow and the 10mm eyepiece the magnification would be 130. The 260 maximum magnification SW mentions only happens when the weather conditions are ideal, which only happens once or twice a year they say, so it is better to forget about it.)

[OzStarGazer]

This is the one I bought by the way:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brand-New...item1c4fe86b72
It was 10 dollars cheaper 16 months ago! You can probably find something cheaper now if you are on a tight budget. It is not a professional one of course, but it is OK for beginners.

[OneSmallStep (Australia)]

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

I find this resource very useful by the way:
http://www.stargazing.net/naa/scopemath.htm

Thanks for sharing, that's an excellent resource to get an idea of how it all works and the limitations.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Hi Billi,

What telescope do you own and are your 10mm and 25mm eyepieces you have the generic plossls that came with the scope?

Cheers
John B

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Hi Billi,

What telescope do you own and are your 10mm and 25mm eyepieces you have the generic plossls that came with the scope?

Cheers
John B

Hi John I have the SkyWatcher Heritage 130p. It's definitely a great beginners scope! The 10mm and 25mm eps were included with it.

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

Only when the weather conditions are good... I did use a 2x Barlow a couple of times with the 10mm EP, particularly in my early days (which were just over a year ago... ). I now have a 6mm EP, so I usually use it on good days. But the Barlow should be OK too on good days (well, nights).

Sooo... would a 6mm ep be better than the barlow, in your opinion? I know it's all down to personal opinion, but I can only get one so I'm being careful

[OzStarGazer]

Originally Posted by BilliGoatsGruff

Sooo... would a 6mm ep be better than the barlow, in your opinion? I know it's all down to personal opinion, but I can only get one so I'm being careful

Well, I like to take pics of the moon , and I find it easier with just 1 EP (when I am taking pics in afocal mode, which means with just the camera in front of the EP). The image quality is also better because my 6mm EP is for planetary viewing.
If you buy a Barlow you could also use it with the 25mm EP of course, which would then be like 12.5mm, as well as with future EPs.
Maybe others can tell you what they think too... I first bought the Barlow and then the 6mm EP, but not because I was totally unhappy with the Barlow. I am obsessed with the moon and wanted to get as close to it as possible in the best possible way and take pics of it, as I said, but the Barlow was OK too. Well, at least not bad for quick magnification. I just felt I needed more.

[OzStarGazer]

There is an old thread about your scope and a Barlow:
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ghlight=barlow

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

I find this resource very useful by the way:
http://www.stargazing.net/naa/scopemath.htm

This was definitely interesting!

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

This is the one I bought by the way:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Brand-New...item1c4fe86b72
It was 10 dollars cheaper 16 months ago! You can probably find something cheaper now if you are on a tight budget. It is not a professional one of course, but it is OK for beginners.

Bintel has one for the same price:
http://www.bintel.com.au/Eyepieces-a...oductview.aspx
of course there's the cost of postage with that one, so it bumps the price up.

I guess the real question is; does a Barlow affect image quality? Perhaps I should have asked that first.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

I have only used my Celestron Ultima 2x 1 1/4 inch Barlow that I have had for many years and find it one of the best, sadly not made anymore but the TelVue 2x is of equivalent quality, at a price of course , and still available.
On the quality question all the cheap 2 and3x Barlow,s I have ever looked thru did not by a long shot equal an eyepiece that gives the same magnification , its like a vail over the view where as the good quality ( expense. ) Barlow,s don't.
On that when I want higher powers using my 2inch eyepiece, my TV 2 inch Powermate is the best. , tho really expensive. .

So my opinion is if you cant afford a TelVue or equivalent don't bother as you will be disappointed in the long run. , grab a nice TMB 6mm , this will be better.

My. 5c.

Brian.

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

Originally Posted by brian nordstrom

So my opinion is if you cant afford a TelVue or equivalent don't bother as you will be disappointed in the long run. , grab a nice TMB 6mm , this will be better.

My. 5c.

Brian.

Thanks Brian. I did consider getting a 6mm of some sort. What's the eye relief like on them though?

[OzStarGazer]

Originally Posted by brian nordstrom

grab a nice TMB 6mm , this will be better.

Billi, if you are interested that's the one I have too. I bought it on AliExpress, where they are pretty cheap. They are clones, but basically they are all clones these days because the original manufacturer doesn't make them any more if I remember correctly? It arrived pretty quick from China, in about a week or just over a week.
PS: The description says that the eye relief is 16mm.

[BilliGoatsGruff (Billi)]

The 6mm from Aliexpress works out to be roughly $45. I wish our dollar was worth more than America, then we could all get awesome stuff for dirt cheap

[OzStarGazer]

There was a time when our dollar was indeed a bit more than the USD (not much, but still better than 1:1). Beautiful times! I should have bought more back then.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Hi Billi,

I am going to come at this from a different angle to where everyone else pointed you (Brian did at least suggest not to waste your money on a poor quality barlow). The scope you have is a very good entry level scope and should last at least 1 year and possibly 2 or 3 years. These have a parabolic primary mirror and assuming fault free optics should be capable of running to a bit over 200X on the moon and planets, which you would achieve with a 3mm eyepiece. Seeing conditions on a large number of nights might prevent you going this high.

What I have learned over many years is that people often upsize, downsize or change telescopes but they will generally keep good quality eyepieces for a very long time and use the same eyepieces, in different scopes, as they change scopes. Consequently, I think you should head away from the budget end of the market as those eyepieces and barlows will only ever be that. At some time in the not too distant future, as your observing skills improve, you will realise that the eyepieces that came with the scope are pretty ordinary and you will look to upgrade them. Buying more cheap eyepieces and accessories IMO is only burning money as you will at some time in the future give them to someone because no one will buy them when you want to upgrade. I think you should start to assemble some better quality eyepieces now, which you will keep for many years. If you don''t keep them for years you can at least sell them and get your money back on them. Whilst not everyone can afford to go and buy a new set of Pentax XW's, Ethoses or Deloses, there are some excellent high quality eyepieces which can be bought very reasonably on the second hand market. I think this is where you should start looking. Be patient, they may not come up this week or next week, but they do come up and you can start to build a good set of high quality eyepieces over a period of time. Most importantly you will be able to sell these for about what you paid for them.

I think you need to get something in the 5mm to 8mm range as your next eyepiece to give you a bit more power on Solar System targets. I would look for something like a 2nd hand 5mm, 6mm or 8mm Televue Radian, or a 5mm or 8mm Vixen LVW, or a Pentax XF 8.5mm. You can often buy these for somewhere between $130 and $200. If you upgrade your scope in the future; and as your observing skills improve, you will realise that these eyepieces at least allow the scope to deliver its best performance and it is not handicapped by mediocre quality eyepieces.

Whilst $150 to $200 may sound like too much money at the moment, you would always be able to get most of your money back in the future if you ever want to sell them. if you keep buying $50 eyepieces you will have an eyepiece collection worth $0 because they are basically not saleable on the second hand market.

Cheers,
John B

[OzStarGazer]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Whilst $150 to $200 may sound like too much money at the moment, you would always be able to get most of your money back in the future if you ever want to sell them. if you keep buying $50 eyepieces you will have an eyepiece collection worth $0 because they are basically not saleable on the second hand market.
Cheers,
John B

She said that she cannot buy a cheap Barlow AND a cheap eyepiece (which together would be less than $100), so I assume $150 to 200 would be too much for her. But I don't think it is a real problem at the moment.
Of course it is a journey and she will want more one day, but she seemed to be pretty happy even with the cheap eps and what she was seeing so far, which is good as that's all that really counts - to feel happy and enjoy what one is seeing. I feel a lot of *admiration* for her and her enthusiasm.
She also has kids, so when she wants to upgrade she can give them her old scope and eps.
Maybe AstralTraveller was right in the other thread she started and she should wait to buy any new eps altogether for the time being. After all she just got into astronomy.
I personally am waiting for a better location to upgrade. At the moment I cannot move due to health reasons as the moving agency doesn't do everything and I cannot do it myself at the moment.