Waste of life and potential

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by marc4darkskies

What beautiful, gentle words! Many would do well to commit them to memory! They contrast so starkly with the brutality, cruelty and senselessness of this horrible event. The decision to go ahead with the executions last night sickened me. A shamefully inhumane and ignorant decision IMO.

Though I happen to be a supporter of the death penalty for the most heinous and premeditated of murders and when there is no doubt about guilt, no sentence should preclude the administering of mercy and compassion when it is so clearly earned as it was, by all accounts, in this case.

While we are likely to get some hard line eye for an eye, they should'a known better, what they did would have harmed others and other unforgiving sentiments on this topic that in my opinion completely miss the point here, I would really truly like to think that the vast bulk of us think essentially the same way as you Graham and Marcus because in the end without mercy what do we all become....?

Mike

[doppler (Rick)]

Originally Posted by Kunama

There is a very good reason they don't whisper in their ear, it is to give the Indonesian Police an opportunity to try to find out who is supplying the drugs to these mules. When these 9 people arrived in Indonesia they should have got the message loud and clear, it is posted all around the airports.

And the Indonesian police must have got some nice bribes from the suppliers, I didn't see any of them on death row?

[Eratosthenes (Peter)]

the USA executes prisoners at record levels.

Can we pose the same questions and judgements against the USA and other nations that have capital punishment.

Australia also had capital punishment until about 50 years ago. (and many of the people executed were Indigenous Australians, even though they were not recognised as people until 1967.)

This issue is even more complex when we look in the mirror.

How many civilians have died in wars carried out by western nations?

Do we value life in a morally universal way, or are we to be selective and hypocritical? Saudi Arabia carried out several dozen beheading executions in public streets just in one month last year.

back to my night sky viewing

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-ap...640.jpg&w=1484

[xelasnave]

The world needs a non criminal approach to drugs.
The market thrieves because criminalisation is the reason the business is so profitable.
I believe addictions would probably be less in an environment when drug are legal but the Government controls marketing.
The drug industry should not be run by criminals.
Back to the thread.
Any loss of life is sad particularly if avoidable.

[entity62]

Two lads loose there life because of a very poor decision and our Polly's have a fit. 1 million iraqis murdered by us and not a boo

[xelasnave]

It is all about public and therefore political attention.
Peter mentioned beheadings 84 last year I recall.
We could make a list.

[speach (Simon)]

For a start off let me say I do not support the death penalty.
But the new pres of Indonesia in his election stated that he would be executing drug traffickers. So do we expect him to break his promises that he was elected on? He's not Tony Abbott after all.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by speach

For a start off let me say I do not support the death penalty.
But the new pres of Indonesia in his election stated that he would be executing drug traffickers. So do we expect him to break his promises that he was elected on? He's not Tony Abbott after all.

True, but how often do pollies break promises to do the wrong thing?

[BPO]

Originally Posted by Eratosthenes

the USA executes prisoners at record levels. Can we pose the same questions and judgements against the USA and other nations that have capital punishment.

But... But... Aussies like Americans!

Therein lies the difference. Right?

[Visionary (David)]

Killing is killing, murder is murder, state sanctioned killing is murder.

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

Originally Posted by OzStarGazer

They rehabilitated them just to kill them. It sounds absurd. Really.

Criminals often 'rehabilitate' until they are released back into their pool of victims.

Whether or not people agree with the death penalty, these guys knew what they were doing was wrong, they knew the penalty, they knew the effect on users, they knew the effect on thier friends and family if caught, and not only did they go ahead with it, they dragged others into it.

It's hard to feel any sympathy for them. The whole thing is horrible. Not one bit of good has come from any of it.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by entity62

Two lads loose there life because of a very poor decision and our Polly's have a fit. 1 million iraqis murdered by us and not a boo

I don't think our pollies give a rat's about those two lads.
I suspect uncle Tony rubbed his hands with glee at the prospect of a media circus surrounding their execution knowing it would serve as an excellent way to deflect public attention away from domestic politics.

Contrast the rhetoric and outrage surrounding this issue with the level of compassion and understanding he candidly shows for our lads, here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPmpswEJ-sg

[LewisM]

Originally Posted by entity62

Two lads loose there life because of a very poor decision and our Polly's have a fit. 1 million iraqis murdered by us and not a boo

1 million Iraqis... please elucidate where you contrived this figure. Most reports put it closer to 500,000, to as "few" as 121,000.

Originally Posted by BPO

But... But... Aussies like Americans!

Therein lies the difference. Right?

We do? Well, maybe the Politicians.

I personally find US foreign policy and actions abhorrent, despicable, and rife with double standard.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by LewisM

1 million Iraqis... please elucidate where you contrived this figure. Most reports put it closer to 500,000, to as "few" as 121,000.

I think the number of Iraqis that died directly from violence as a result of the war is just over 100,000. The larger figure (which I believe runs into the millions - mostly children) includes those that are estimated to have died as a result of the punitive sanctions which were imposed and the destruction of infrastructure (like water treatment plants and power stations)

I personally find US foreign policy and actions abhorrent, despicable, and rife with double standard.

I feel compassion for the people of the US, they have been largely blamed for an in-conscionable foreign policy. The truth is, the US government is the best democracy money can buy. To understand who formulates US policy, you need look no further than the demographic of people who fund (both sides of) the election campaigns and who owns or controls the media. They simply use America as a proxy bully to wage their wars for them.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by BPO

Or... Don't traffic illegal narcotics in countries with death penalties for such offenses. We demand foreigners respect our own laws whenever they visit.

My sentiments exactly. A deaf dumb and blind person is fully aware of the penalties for trafficking of narcotics in South East Asia. They knew the risk before they committed the crime. They took the risk, got caught and paid the ultimate price.

Maybe this event will make some other young people think twice before committing the same crime.

Cheers,
John B

[AussieTrooper (Ben)]

There's a simple way to stop Indonesia's death penalty.

Don't commit crimes there.

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by ausastronomer

Maybe this event will make some other young people think twice before committing the same crime.

Sadly, I doubt it. It's not as though the death penalty or long prison terms are anything new. Soon enough the publicity will die down and another round of young people will think 'it won't happen to me'; but it will. We will see more 'mules' slaughtered while the Mr Bigs continue to live in their mansions undisturbed by either the police or their conscience.

[MortonH]

[QUOTE=LewisM;1171520
I personally find US foreign policy and actions abhorrent, despicable, and rife with double standard.[/QUOTE]

True, but I don't see that they're intrinsically worse than anyone else. Every country looks out for itself, and does so by whatever methods they can get away with. The US was the biggest power in the world so it had more to protect and could get away with more than anyone else.

In another 100 years (or sooner) people will likely be debating China's foreign policy in the same way.

[N1 (Mirko)]

Capital punishment as a standard measure is based on one of 2 things:

1. a claim to absolute, infalsifiable truth (i.e. in establishing beyond ALL - not just reasonable doubt - that somebody is guilty), and to do this EVERY TIME;

or

2. accepting that innocent people are killed in the process.

Anyone who has had the remotest dealings with science knows that 1. is impossible to achieve, leaving 2. as the only other basis. And that is so unbelievably wrong, it is sickening.

Many say just don't commit the crime when you are there. Great! What if you didn't do anything and get arrested anyway? What if somebody placed heroin in your luggage, over which you have no control between check-in and baggage collection. Or what if someone you call a friend gives you a bag containing drugs, and you then don't even get a chance to explain yourself properly in court because you are not provided with an interpreter. This may well be what happened to the woman that was spared this week. Her ultimate mistake might have been not checking her bag properly, i.e. cut open the lining. And for that, she would have been put to death as well, escaping (for now) only because her former "friend" back in the Philipines finally came to her senses.

I therefore cannot accept science as the best way to explain the world and support the death penalty at the same time.

[Alchemy (Clive)]

Originally Posted by Visionary

Killing is killing, murder is murder, state sanctioned killing is murder.

So what's abortion?.. Given its legally sanctioned in this country.

And then there's the possibility of state sanctioned euthanasia laws right here in Australia.

And how many old people are just helped into the grave with a bit of morphine.

All right here in our own backyard.