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Old 26-03-2015, 02:26 PM
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Camelopardalis (Dunk)
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Benefits of modding your DSLR...

Folks,

I recently had my Canon 1100D modded and what with the Sydney weather and all recently I haven't really had much of a chance to test it out...

I've attached a couple of shots taken of M42...the first unmodded taken in the Spring and the second more recently. Given the time of year and time of night of the shots, they would have been taken with the object at similar altitudes. Both were decent but not excellent sky conditions.

I've performed a rough colour balance on both (more challenging on the unmodded shot!) and dragged the levels down to the same value at the black end.

I think the difference speaks for itself but appreciate that M42 is bright, obvious example. Besides all the extra red in the modded shot, you might notice that the modded shot is a little less saturated in the core region than the unmodded. This is because the modded sub was exposed for only 1 minute, the unmodded sub for 2 minutes. However, the modded sub is remarkably bright, even when looking at the raw output, the histogram is only slightly more to the left than the unmodded 2 minute shot, although it is possible to spot a little more faint extension in the 2 minute shot, as expected.

So far I'm pretty happy
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Old 26-03-2015, 03:14 PM
raymo
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There is very little extra nebulosity visible for twice the exposure, were they both taken at the same ISO? Something must be different in the way you process your images, because my unmodded M42s are definitely redder than yours. I still think that the best of both worlds is to have both modded and unmodded cameras. Some objects benefit from a modded one, and some objects [IMHO] actually look worse, as the other colours present get swamped, and you end up with an almost monochrome pic.
raymo
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Old 26-03-2015, 03:53 PM
glend (Glen)
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Nice one Dunk. I have also started using my (DIY) modded Canon 450D on some of the objects that really benefit from having much more Ha available. It's worth doing but will need a custom colour balance.

Last edited by glend; 26-03-2015 at 05:02 PM.
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Old 26-03-2015, 04:07 PM
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rustigsmed (Russell)
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nice one Dunk, the changes will be even more obvious on a more Ha heavy object.
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Old 26-03-2015, 07:42 PM
RobC (Rob)
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Big difference Dunk. I can see why you are happy with the modded DSLR. Now you just have to cool it.

Cheers

Rob
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Old 26-03-2015, 08:29 PM
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Thanks chaps it's early days but so far so good. I can imagine that two cameras are useful, fortunately I invested in a Fuji X-E1 a while back in the interests of science, so I can always resort to that for those where Ha offends the filter on that one seems to actually let some red through, whereas the Canon previously didn't.

Yeah Rob need to sort the cooling out, it was shockingly hot the other night, must have still been over 20c at midnight

Raymo, yeah the same ISO on both occasions, I use ISO1600 almost exclusively. Then I take the raw and work from there. That's probably where the difference in colour balance comes from.

So there's objects that are more heavy on the red side than M42? so far I've only taken a few test shots, although I was a bit like a kid in a candy store...Eta Carinae, the Running Chicken, Tarantula, a couple of wide field shots around and along the Milky Way...it was all up for the taking
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Old 26-03-2015, 08:45 PM
Mosc_007 (Charles)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopardalis View Post
So there's objects that are more heavy on the red side than M42? so far I've only taken a few test shots, although I was a bit like a kid in a candy store...Eta Carinae, the Running Chicken, Tarantula, a couple of wide field shots around and along the Milky Way...it was all up for the taking
I have been using both a Stock Canon 100D and a Modded Canon 1100D for the past 12 months.

Almost all Nebula, with he exception of only a few, contain MUCH more Ha than Orion does. Orion looks pretty good even with a Stock Camera. Only a small amount of Ha light.

After using the two Camera's for 12 Months the Modded Camera probably saw about 90% of the usage.

If you are going to Image Nebula then a modded camera is a must. About 90% of them are mostly Ha.


Charles
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Old 26-03-2015, 10:52 PM
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Awesome can't wait to get out with it again once we see some decent weather
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Old 27-03-2015, 01:24 AM
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cometcatcher (Kevin)
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Interesting comparison. That internal filter really cuts back a lot of light, so you gain almost an F stop by removing it (except in cyan) and much more in Ha.
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Old 27-03-2015, 01:59 AM
Mosc_007 (Charles)
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Originally Posted by cometcatcher View Post
Interesting comparison. That internal filter really cuts back a lot of light, so you gain almost an F stop by removing it (except in cyan) and much more in Ha.
Certainly does. The filter blocks 90% of the Ha light. Removing it makes it 900% more sensitive to Ha.

Because it buggers the Colour balance objects with No Ha light still come out with much higher Red levels. Taking a terestrial Photo which contains No Ha light you get a huge Bias towards red. Pretty much useless for normal use. But perfect for Ha Nebula. Although the stars also come out Red.

I have attached two Images of the Horsehead Nebula. Pretty much a pure Ha Nebula.

The First is with the Stock Canon 1100D before modding. It was 5 Min subs.
The Second is after I modded my 1100D. And even with only 2 Min subs you can see how much difference it made.
Just for the Hell of it I also included my Latest Attempt at Horsehead with the C11 Hyperstar and QHY10 CCD.


Charles
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Click for full-size image (Horse Head.jpg)
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Last edited by Mosc_007; 27-03-2015 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 27-03-2015, 02:01 PM
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Loving the Horsehead Charles

Here's my efforts to date... first one is a 2 minute exposure with the unmodded camera, in the Spring as before, and then the second is a 1 minute exposure with the modded camera. Looking at the raw file histograms in DPP the modded peaks are just behind the unmodded shot - I'm talking about the green and blue channels, the red in the modded is way out in front

The red nebulosity is much more pronounced and better defined, but if you look closely you'll see some of the fainter stars are harder to discern/not present in the shorter exposure (unsurprisingly). There's more noise in the modded shot simply because it was a hot night.
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Old 27-03-2015, 03:46 PM
Mosc_007 (Charles)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopardalis View Post
Loving the Horsehead Charles

Here's my efforts to date... first one is a 2 minute exposure with the unmodded camera, in the Spring as before, and then the second is a 1 minute exposure with the modded camera. Looking at the raw file histograms in DPP the modded peaks are just behind the unmodded shot - I'm talking about the green and blue channels, the red in the modded is way out in front

The red nebulosity is much more pronounced and better defined, but if you look closely you'll see some of the fainter stars are harder to discern/not present in the shorter exposure (unsurprisingly). There's more noise in the modded shot simply because it was a hot night.

It is a difficult object to master. I think you should be able to stretch those images somewhat. Probably also need longer exposures. But we all have to start someware. Increasing the number of subs will reduce noise noticably on the DSLR. I found I could do 5 min subs with the 1100D and noise was minimal. Assuming dark skies. From the Subs in Syndey Sky glow limited max time to about 30 seconds. Also, Don't be scared of using High ISO settings on the DSLR. On the 1100D I always used ISO 6400. On the 100D I used 3200.

I am still working on the Horsehead. Getting better each time. It is one of the hardest object to image. I think I need shorter exposures to try and tame Alnatak a bit. Blew out pretty bad.

The Red is so much more pronounced that it will kill the Blue and Green channels most of the time. When I did the Trifid Nebula with the Modded Camera the Red part of the Nebula was great. But the Blue reflection was missing completly. I did it again with the Stock Camera and got an amazing shot. Their is not really much Ha in Trifid so the stock Camera gave a much better result. Trifid is one of the few Nebula that need the stock Camera.

I have attached my Trifid shots to show why the stock Camera is also needed on some targets.

First Image is with the Modded 1100D with only 30 Sec subs.
The Second Shot is with a stock 100D. 3 Min subs.


Charles
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Click for full-size image (Trifid.jpg)
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Last edited by Mosc_007; 27-03-2015 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 27-03-2015, 04:08 PM
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Thanks Charles, that's really interesting. The first shot without the nebulosity is almost shocking

So far, my shots with the modded camera have only been tests...I was just slewing around the sky taking shots of objects that were around, most of which I'd tried taking shots of before.

Here's another couple of shots...I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit, and the exposure lengths are a bit wild...my colour balancing might not be spot on, but I've deliberately dragged their histograms down to about the same range...
  1. a 5 minute exposure with the unmodded camera, lots of things going on in there, but not much in the way of pink/reds
  2. this is with my (now) unmodded camera, a Fujifilm X-E1...only a 2 minute exposure but it's somewhat of a middle ground with hints of green and red/purple
  3. finally the modded camera...my polar alignment was only good enough for a 1 minute sub (shame on me )
The Fujifilm shot was using a higher ISO, but there's lots of discussion elsewhere about Fujifilm's ISO and how it doesn't correlate with other brands (i.e. Canon, Nikon), so I'd estimate it's about 1/3 of a stop over being a fair comparison. Being a 16MP sensor, it packs a little more resolution as well as appearing to be a little more sensitive generally.

I'm really looking forward to a few good nights with both of these cameras with all the winter goodies, and looking forward to spring for a bit more Horsehead
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Old 27-03-2015, 06:02 PM
Mosc_007 (Charles)
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They are looking good. The Modded Camera does the Majority of Nebula quite well. Just ignore the Red Stars. Tarantula does look better with the modded Camera. Same as Carina and most other Nebula were Ha is dominant.

All my early stuff was pretty ordinary. It takes a while but you will learn quickly. After 12 Months with the Stock 100D and Modded 1100D I have moved on to a QHY10 CCD. But I did change my Scope to F2 with the Hyperstar because OSC CCD exposures are very long compared to a DSLR. A CCD is so much different to using a DSLR so I have heaps to learn.

You can check out my Web page which shows my History over the past 14 Months. They are all low res images as I don't have a lot of free web space.
http://users.tpg.com.au/cyendle/

One Nebula that comes up real nice with the Modded Camera is the "Helix" Nebula. The Blue even comes out nice.

An example of the Helix Nebula with the Modded 1100D. 2.5 Min Subs. 2.5 Mins was a touch too long. Part of the Nebula Saturated.
Here is my Tarantula with the Modded 1100D. Only needed 30 Second subs.


Charles
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Old 27-03-2015, 11:14 PM
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Very nice Charles indeed I have a lot to learn, I'd take a few clear nights to get started
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Old 28-03-2015, 03:47 AM
Mosc_007 (Charles)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopardalis View Post
Very nice Charles indeed I have a lot to learn, I'd take a few clear nights to get started
Thanks. I like to believe I have learnt a lot using the DSLR's over the past 12 months. Now the next 12 months I will learning how to use a CCD.

From my Web page you can see the first few I took with the CCD were pretty poor. But the last one of Horsehead and Flame is a huge improvement in a short time.

Some of what I learnt with the DSLR does apply to the CCD. But the basics are quite different. IE, A CCD Sub looks like their is nothing their. But it is their. You just have to find it. This is one thing the Processor in DSLR does for you automatically.


Charles
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Old 28-03-2015, 09:00 AM
glend (Glen)
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After deciding to stay with DSLRs for the next year or so, I am now modding a second 450D that I bought very cheaply on ebay as a spare parts source. If you are considering doing the mods yourself - including cold finger (which is pretty involved) be very carefull with each step: write down each thing you remove in the order it is done, separate all the little screws and parts by the steps ( I tape the screws to a large paper run sheet whivh makes it easy to work through backwards for re-assembly). There are a number of mod instructions posted on the Net, including the excellent pictorials by Gary Honis on the filter removal.

If you break something during the mod there are replacement modules available online for the boards and units in the camera,. You can also re-birth these cameras by renewing the shutter unit, which is the moving part most likely to be damaged over the years.
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Old 28-03-2015, 12:54 PM
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Glen, any chance you'll offer a cold finger service?
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Old 28-03-2015, 03:02 PM
glend (Glen)
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Hi Dunk, and thanks for that suggestion, however I have not considered that (cold finger mods). I am only refining mine now, and each Canon model is slightly different. It's clear it can be done for the 450D and that's the only one I know internally now. I would be leary of working on someone else's camera.

Rcheshire (Rowland) is much further along the learning curve than I would be and wrote it up elsewhere last year. I believe Rowland is still adding details to his instructions (based on our conversations in the cold finger thread here); and is designing a pcb for temp control functions. It is worth noting that Gary Honis in the USA, who has a business modifying Canon's of various models (filters and full spectrum) has not ventured into cold fingers.

Cold fingers, while an ideal sensor cooling apparatus, really need more work on temperature control, condensation management, insultation, and making the TEC/fan/heatsink mount strong enough that no force can be transferred to the sensor assembly. I am working on a carbon fibre mount for my TEC/fan/heatsink which will carry the weight to the camera frame (version 2) and the inclusion of a desiccant capsule (which is used in some CCD cameras).

The more people that work on the development of the cold finger, and share their information, the closer we will get to the necessary refinement required to make it a useful lower risk mod. Until then were just owners trying things out.

Last edited by glend; 28-03-2015 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 29-03-2015, 12:17 PM
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sounds good, though I'm not sure I'm brave enough to attempt it on mine as I'm not skilled with a soldering iron
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