Good All Rounder For Dad And Daughter

[mariner10 (Steve)]

It's a good idea Con, you won't regret it.
You'll get good and varied advice from places like this forum but it can still be overwhelming and there's nothing quite like trying before buying.
Most if not all amateur astronomers won't have an issue showing you views through their eye pieces and explaining their equipment and from there you should be able to formulate a good idea of what you want. And don't be afraid to ask how much they paid for their gear. Good luck.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

It's a question of whether you want to see something or whether you want to find something... I've used goto systems for years and there is a small learning curve when you first get it, you need to be familiar with a few of the brighter stars in the sky (hint: use a planisphere or smart phone app ) to be able to teach the mount where it is. Unless you trip over it or move it, you would need to do this once per evening. I tolerate this because I like to see stuff, as unlike some I don't get a big sense of achievement from finding stuff. (that's not strictly true, I have a small refractor that I use completely manually)

An 8" Dob should fit in the boot - or back seat - of most small cars...unless you drive a Smart car or a Fiat 500, you'd probably be OK.

For the price, to get goto you're trading in aperture and light grasp for the computerised system. Unless you're in the CBD or have a street lamp in your garden, I'd expect you'd be able to see some of the brighter galaxies from your spot, and you'll be able to see open clusters, globular clusters (fuzzy blobs that would resolve into stars from a darker site), some of the brighter nebulae...and you can always drive somewhere darker

IMO, from the city it's not going to be a night and day difference between the 5" and 8"...and from a dark site you'd see more from both...but obviously more detail and fainter objects from the larger scope.

Oh and +1 for getting out and trying before you buy...

[raymo]

You don't need to be familiar with any stars to use the Celestron SLT series of go to scopes. you can use any bright stars for alignment.
If you get an SLT, be sure to follow Trevor's advice, and get the 127 Mak.
The 130 tube is too long for the mount, and therefore somewhat
unstable. You can always trade up to a larger scope later if the interest is maintained.
raymo

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

The reason I mention it is because doing an auto-2-star alignment is a lot quicker than doing a sky align

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

Just rang AstroShop and while he said the Vixen 130 is a good scope, he recommended this 8' dob. Can anyone give me an idea of how high it is, and how high the eyepeice would be? It seems like it would be awkward to lug around and not the sort of thing that would fit in the boot of a smallish car. Oh and would it be any good optically?

I really don't like the idea of pushing a dob around the sky, I think I'd much prefer a mount with couple of knobs for fine tuning.

Edit: Russel I didn't see your post when I wrote mine. Your pretty much repeating what the guy at AstroShop advised. My only concern is the expense of turning a dob into a goto, and its size.

No worries

- The tube length is 1.2 metres the base will add some height. but the eyepiece will be around 1.2m off the ground when looking straight up. it will obviously be lower on the 45deg angle etc.
- for ease of transportation it will probably fit in the car as one unit or you could separate them which you would probably want to do anyway. Or if you are worried about space a collapsible would do the trick http://myastroshop.com.au/products/d...sp?id=MAS-041E

I have the 12" version of this and it is very well made.
- optically it will be good, as long as you collimate it before use.
- ask how much upgrading it to goto would cost. I have a feeling it may be only be able to be done on the black diamond model (which is what I linked above - as far as the skywatcher products go).

Trying not to bombard you with options but you may find that instead of upgrading the dob to goto you buy an eq mount (eg HEQ5) and you could put the telescope tube onto it when photographing deep sky and mount it on the dob when looking visually.

I know what you mean about fine tuning, and yes while an eq mount will be able to make good fine tune movements, having the tube and eyepiece in a comfortable spot wont happen most of the time - trust me this is not that user friendly - plus you will probably have to use a smaller sized telescope offering less impressive views. The dob will get you to your object quicker and will be in a more comfortable position for viewing and give you much finer views due to its light grasp and resolution.

Astronomy can be frustrating even when you have the right equipment etc, it sounds to me that you should perhaps save a bit more in the first place and buy a goto dob. the last thing you want to do is spend $800 on something that doesn't really do what you want it to. it could put you off astronomy or spending more in the long run due to upgrading to what you "should" have got in the first place (or you may have many years of enjoyment with it ).

a goto dob you can set up with a simple 2 star alignment and tell the handset what you want it to find thereafter (or try a manual dob at the astronomy club to see how the nudging annoys you).

the cheapest I can find is http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/...oductview.aspx in an 8" however it is sold out, it might be worth seeing if they are restocking at the same price.

In the mean time there is plenty you can do with your canon and naked eye. you can create landscape shots of the milky way and constellations, construct panorama's (stitch together images to nab the milky way, make interesting night time timelapses, photograph the up coming lunar eclipse. check out the nightscapes section in images for some inspiration. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/f...splay.php?f=49

Edit - I see Andrews have the upgrade kit for the black diamond flex tubes only, they have it at $699 for the upgrade.

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Con
Having used dobs of several sizes (8", 12" and 20") as well as EQ mounted newts (ie with those "couple of knobs") there is no way I would use anything other than a dob for visual astronomy. Finding objects is far more intuitive and setup is easy (carry it out, put it down, collimate and start using).

Malcolm

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

I really don't like the idea of pushing a dob around the sky, I think I'd much prefer a mount with couple of knobs for fine tuning.

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

Don't take this the wrong way, but your all making this more difficult.

I have emailed AstroShop about the cost of converting either of those 8' dobs to goto.

I'll see what the answer is, I think my decision might be based on what AstroShop come back with.

Oh and I have been hearing alot about this collimate proceedure, which I'm assuming has something to do with fine tuning the mirror position? Actually don't bother answering that, I'll work it out when I get a scope.

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

Don't take this the wrong way, but your all making this more difficult.

I have emailed AstroShop about the cost of converting either of those 8' dobs to goto.

I'll see what the answer is, I think my decision might be based on what AstroShop come back with.

Oh and I have been hearing alot about this collimate proceedure, which I'm assuming has something to do with fine tuning the mirror position? Actually don't bother answering that, I'll work it out when I get a scope.

no worries Con, we are all just passionate that you get something that you and your daughter will enjoy for years to come

You will need to get the flex dob to be able to upgrade
https://www.myastroshop.com.au/produ...sp?id=MAS-041E

the upgrade kit is listed as $699 at Andrews communications
http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-co...skywatcher.htm

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

Can someone clear something up for me. The Vixen 130Sf is a Newt on a tripod type mount right. The SkyWatcher 8-inch F/6 Collapsible Dob is also a newt on a different mount. Whats to stop me putting the Skywatcher onto a goto or a eq tripod mount arrangement later on?

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

Can someone clear something up for me. The Vixen 130Sf is a Newt on a tripod type mount right. The SkyWatcher 8-inch F/6 Collapsible Dob is also a newt on a different mount. Whats to stop me putting the Skywatcher onto a goto or a eq tripod mount arrangement later on?

there is no issue mounting a non flex tube. you just need to buy the rings etc to attach to the eq mount.

the flex tube maybe possible - the truss' do come down a fair way, I reckon it would be ok on my 12" version, as you want the rings closer to the base (or the base closer to the rings) due to the weight distribution, this is probably ok on the 8". it would easier to be definitive by going into the shop. actually as its f6 you will have a bit more room to play with.

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

I'm just curious, would either of the scopes mentioned be able to produce something like http://www.iceinspace.com.au/vbiis/c...tar13088_1.gif or http://www.iceinspace.com.au/vbiis/c...tar15633_2.gif to view, not photograph.

(Russell and Dunk, mind If I borrow your avatars? )

Edit: Just found this in the for sale section, worth it for a toy to play with? How hard is to clean a mirror?
"Skywatcher Heritage 130mm Collapsible Table Top Dob. 2 Years old, good condition, mirror slightly dusty, inevitable marks on dovetail, original packing and documentation. Original 10mm and 25mm eyepieces. Missing small end cap and box for 25mm ep. (I think it may have arrived with that ep in the focuser) Hasn't been used much since I got an 8" GSO 18 months ago.

$150"

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Hi Con,

quite frankly a 5" wont give you anywhere near the detail, Jupiter will be very very very small and bright, you maybe able to discern two darker bands across the disc.

when it comes to planets aperture becomes super important, 8" is where it all comes together.

I would avoid table-top dobs at all costs.

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

Really, does that include the Vixen 130Sf I am considering? Its also a 5 inch!!

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

Really, does that include the Vixen 130Sf I am considering? Its also a 5 inch!!

yes it does. having owned a 6" reflector I wouldn't recommend anything less than an 8" if you are interested in visually looking at the planets.

they do give lovely widefield views but will be disappointing on planets - other than the moon (as the moon is so [apparently] big).

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

Looks like I'm going for a 8" dob. Now to pick a brand/supplier. What are bintel branded dobs like? They seem to be cheaper than the rest. They also have a 10" dob for $700, whats the catch? And would a 10" be better still?

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

Looks like I'm going for a 8" dob. Now to pick a brand/supplier. What are bintel branded dobs like? They seem to be cheaper than the rest.

they are exactly the same as GSO dobs - just rebadged.
I have heard rumours that they don't reach prime focus with a dslr - without modifying it in someway. but someone else might be able to chime in on that.
I can vouch for the skywatcher flex tubes, build quality was great, held collimation well and could reach prime focus without any modification. they are a bit more expensive though but worth it in my opinion.
but perhaps check with the supplier re: prime focus with cameras and possible modifications.

[raymo]

I had the 10" Skywatcher Flex Dob for 3 yrs. Brilliant, held collimation
super well, prime focus no problem, and fitted in my Corolla hatch easily.
Easy to carry in two parts; scope without base is 14.5 kg. Obviously,
the 8" would be less, about 9-10kg.
raymo

[TheFacelessMen (Rob)]

Originally Posted by AnotherNewbie

Looks like I'm going for a 8" dob. Now to pick a brand/supplier. What are bintel branded dobs like? They seem to be cheaper than the rest. They also have a 10" dob for $700, whats the catch? And would a 10" be better still?

If you are going to buy a dob for visual and also for easy portability or easy remounting definitely go for the 10inch.

In my opinion this is the sweet spot for good visuals and portability and will give you better visuals than an 8 or 6 inch.

[Sheppie (Tim)]

Definitely go 10". It's not such a big difference in price whereas huge difference in quality. Why spend money on 6" or even 8" if in a few weeks you'll decide it's not enough

(I did that once - so I know )

[AnotherNewbie (Con)]

Ok so let me pose this question, in the skywatcher range, apart from portability what is the difference between a 10" solid and collapsible?