Guns (in general)

[h0ughy (David)]

I vote that gravy be used instead of capsicum spray or guns. For the really bad ones, you can use the lumpy hard gravy, then you have your runng hot gravy, or the thick treakle like gravy to catch the crims, or the gravy with a skin for rescues from heights. or to start a car in the wet, fix a sqeaky door, level concrete floor...... the uses go on and on

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

You can't keep large animals and not have a reasonably high powered rifle. Recently a friends horse severed its front foot, they had no rifle and had to wait for the vet to arrive to put him down. Can you imagine the distress of both horse and owner?
But when it comes to the suburbs and cities, there is no place there for guns. Unless they are registered and used within a Sporting Club.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

AFAIK , Howard wants to tighten restrictions on handguns, why ?

How many crimes are comitted with handguns belonging to registered pistol owners? Yes there are robberies and murders comitted with handguns by criminal types who will always be able to source illegal weapons on the black market. Tightening restrictions of licenced owners will have negligible effect on this.

It smells entirely political to me.

[RAJAH235]

FWIW, how about a restriction or ban on the import/manufacture of ammunition? L.
ps. I include land mines in there as well....
pps. I vote for the gravy....lots of gravy...

[Intrepid]

Ok I'll post a few comments and ruffle a few feathers, this is still an issue that I have strong opinions on.

First when the great gun buyback occurred I had to hand in 3 firearms (I think that's almost the first time the correct word has been used in this thread so far) or be declared a criminal, firearms which were declared not suitable to be in my possession by the government. They were totally able to make this decision without knowing anything about me, my background, my level of common sense or intelligence, or emotional stability or whether or not I have impulse control issues or a drug or alcohol problem or anger management issues or my level of experience in handling firearms or my training in firearms safety, etc, etc.

At that time I had the choice of marching myself and some of my valued possessions, for which I had worked hard and saved long (think how much you have spent in terms of time and money with regards you scopes) along to a designated "buyback" location, to hand them over to strangers knowing that they would be destroyed. If I had gone about my day to day life as usual I would have become a criminal on a specified date due to an act of legislation.

I'll say that again ... I would have been declared a serious criminal and faced a possible mandatory jail sentence because I had done NOTHING AT ALL but live my day to day life in exactly the same way I had all my life!

Let's put this in terms that perhaps more people might be able to identify with - WAY more people get killed as a result of motor vehicles than by firearms, so let's say the government decides to severely restrict motor vehicle ownership.
Implications??
Motorbikes are banned, outright, unless you earn a living by being a stunt rider, etc - but you can only ride it in the circus big top or at specific shows. You can keep your cars, no problem ...... oh, unless it has 8 cylinders because that's way too powerful, or 6 cylinders for that matter. And if it can carry more than 4 people it's also now illegal, that's too large a capacity, and surely only certified buses and trains need to do that! Either buy a 2nd car to carry 5 people (yourself, spouse and 3 kids) or someone has to stay at home. Four wheel drives are also banned so forget trips to Fraser Island or heading bush, etc. Oh yeah, you will have to carry and show your license to buy parts, have repairs done, even to get petrol, and the details on it will be recorded in an oficial register. If the central agency decides you have been buying to much petrol expect a visit by the boys in blue, or the tactical response group maybe at 4am some dark morning.

You also can't have any engine combination in any vehicle that might possibly push it faster than 70 km/h, after all no one ever needs to go more than 70 in a city. So if you still own a 4 cylinder that goes faster than 70k and you live in any city or decent sized town you will have to have one or more cylinders permanently welded up, etc, to limit it's speed and therefore limit it's potential to kill. Thats will have to be verified by a police certified engineer too. You can collect cars and bikes, etc, thats ok if you only want to look and touch, but the engines have to be permanently and irrevocably disabled so forget ever driving any of those Ferrari's or Porsche's or Vipers or GT Falcons, etc - great collection that, where not one single item in it can EVER perform it's one intended function ever again.

Likewise any speedboats, fishing boats, power cruisers, jetskis, etc ... all outlawed. You can have a tinny up to 15 feet length with no more than a 10 horse outboard on it. Any sailboat thats too big or too fast is gone too, forget the Sydney to Hobart race, etc.

If you live in a country area you can have a bigger faster car or a 4WD as long as you can show that you need it for getting around your large farm. You are still limited but in soem cases you may still manage to own a reasonable vehicle. And if you DON'T hand in newly outlawed car or motorbike you will face hefty fines or jail, and be labelled a criminal, which could affect your chances of employment, getting a loan from some financial institutions, your family may be affected by your new found social status, etc, etc.

No this is not nonsense, this is in fact a very good analogy of what happened during the firearm legislation changes brought about by Martin Bryant and the Port Arthur tragedy.

I have been shooting targets, and hunting in various forms, for many many years, before that I had an air rifle I used to shoot in our very large back yard, at targets propped inside a large concrete and rock bbq, which was backed by the rear end of a large double garage (mind you no pellet ever strayed past the confines of the bbq. There has never been an "accidantal" discharge on any trip I have been on, no one has ever been hurt, no "collateral damage" such as farmers livestock or pets or unintended animals or birds or other wildlife has ever occurred.

I was trained in how to SAFELY handle firearms before I was ever allowed to even touch my brothers air rifle, let alone use it. I have always been picky about who I do and do not go hunting with. I abhor people who are careless or casual or dangerous anywhere near any kind of potentially dangerous implement, be it a firearm or a spiked club or a kitchen knife, they all kill quite well.

What we have now if a lot of law abiding people who have not only had to relinquish personal possessions but also spend additional money to have gun safes installed in their homes, etc, in case SOME ONE ELSE (ie a REAL criminal) breaks in and could potentially steal their firearms. These same law abiding firearm owners must now also submit to police entering their premises for mandatory checks of any firearms they may still be allowed to own, how and where they are stored, etc. The threat of heavy fines, etc, still exists should it be decided that your particular storage cabinet / safe is not solid or heavy enough as well as immediate confiscation of any such property.

How many people reading would feel concerned by the idea of police having the right to enter and inspect your premises, and unlike criminals you do not even have the "protection" of simple civil rights whereby the police first need to show "reasonable cause" to obtain a warrant to search your home.

Was a change in legislation needed - absolutely, yes!

Was it done in a way that would inhibit criminal activities, or detect mentally unstable and imbalanced individuals, or better protect the public??
Not at all.

When the legislation changed how many ACTUAL criminals lined up, filled out the forms, registered themselves, obtained a firearms license???
None at all, of course!

How many of them handed in rifles or shotguns or pistols or crossbows or paintball guns or slingshots or throwing knives or blowpipes or air rifles?? (ALL of these are now "projectile weapons" under the limits if the firearm legislation)
None at all.

Did the data compiled nationwide 2-3 years after the stricter legislation was introduced show any reduction in firearm related crimes such as armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, or even murder?

None at all.

[johnno]

I dont mind guns,at all,
In fact as a younger man,I quite enjoyed target shooting,at Shows,etc.

As has been said,it is not the gun,that is the problem,it is the type of people using them.

I am well aware of the Terrible things,that has been done,with Maniacs with guns,But Banning guns,WILL NOT STOP,these people from causing Terrible carnage.

IF,absolutely NO GUNS,were available,would this stop people like Martin Bryant,etc,etc.

I dont think so.

They would simply find another Medium,to serve their ends,like petrol,or baseball bats,Fire,water etc,so do we ban them too??,
Again
I dont think so.

An old friend of mine asked me many years ago,when gun control first started,and I said "That might not be a bad thing"

He Said,have you ever read the book of Marx,
I replied NO.

He then told me one of Marx's statements in the book was:

To Take over and control a country."First disarm the people"

Food for thought.

Regards.
John

[Jonathan]

I'm a licensed gun owner and have been for the last 5 years or so, I also have a current SA hunting permit. I own 2 rifles - a .22LR and a .270WIN, they live in a safe and my ammo is hidden and locked up seperatly. They aren't going to be stolen easily. I don't do much shooting but when I do I only use my rifles for hunting feral animals (goats, rabbits & foxes) and kangaroos in over populated areas. All the animals I kill are pests and nearly all of them are kept for their meat.

One problem with talking about guns is that most poeple don't have a clue about what's involved in getting trained and licenced to own one, and all the rules and regulations that go with it. It's not an easy task anymore. Getting a licence involves police paper work, a TAFE course, and theory and practical tests. There's also waiting periods for getting the licence and when buying a gun. It's impossible to go and get a licence and a gun in less than 2 months, it took me over 3 months just to get my licence and 6 weeks for my first rifle. Licenced gun owners go through this long and difficult procedure to use their guns for hunting and target shooting, not for criminal activities.

Another problem is the so called "uniform gun laws" in Australia. I understand they are not uniform throughout all the states. There are loop holes and inconsistancies in them.

The current laws are still very strict but it's only hurt the responsible, licenced owners and hasn't stopped the illegal guns and the crimes commited with them. The buyback was a joke. I know of one person that was given $28 for a semi auto .22, I know of another person that got a few hundred for a Beretta pump action shot gun that cost $5k. And there's plenty of others out there that never handed them back, and I don't blame them.

Another stupid thing with the current laws is that I can buy a lever action shot gun and not a pump action, but I can buy a pump action high power rifle.

Licenced gun owners with registered firearms aren't a problem.

[Portmac]

I have nothing against guns at all.

Guns dont kill people....People kill People

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

My uncle used to have a farm, 30 years ago, and had a gun as expected. His wife snuck out one night...say no more.

One of my cousins had several guns, all locked up and used to win competitions so it was properly locked etc. One day while at work, his flatmate must have found the key...say no more.

Guns may not kill people, but people who don't have guns don't shoot anyone! Nuclear bombs don't kill people either, only people who press buttons, so lets all get missiles for protection and ban buttons!

I have my laser registered and placed in a box with my scope and that's the limit of my "dangerous weapons" (everyone thinks it is so funny when I say I have to have my laser registered). My 8 inch "bazooka" does it for me.

[dennislowe]

I am a licenced firearm user. I shoot only paper and steel targets. The firearms I use are registered and specilised. I know firearms can kill, I was an infantry soldier for six years and served in vietnam. It is illegal firearms and the type of people that use them that is the problem that needs to be addressed.
I have a number of items in my house that are just as capable of killing someone as my firearms are, all of which I do not have to register with the police: eg Chainsaw, Kitchen knives, golf clubs. The list could go on. As always, because of a the crinimal element in our society, some minority group or other has to suffer. I am all for tight laws but not total withdrawal of firearms. It is my sport and gives me a great deal of enjoyment and satisfaction.
Dennis.

[De-Gen]

i have been asking my parents to buy me a BB gun or airsoft but they are not legal in Australia. I don't have interest in real guns because they kill people but even toy guns which resemble like a real gun is banned.

[Rodstar (Rod)]

Originally Posted by norm

As for gravy, you just can't beat it on any roast dinner, lamb, beef, chicken, baked potatoes, pumpkin. Soak it up with buttered bread......yummo. Anyone salivating ???

Anyone remember the old song about, "wanting gravy on my mashed potato..."??

Methinks that was talking about a different sort of gravy, though.

[asimov (John)]

Firearms have been in our family for generations. I don't own any these days, but used to have quite a numerous collection. I was a fox shooter to earn a living at one stage. I'm a welder now so I simply have no further use for firearms.

[Lester]

Perhaps the people that say get rid of guns should also think about getting rid of cars, trucks, motorbikes, aircraft, swimming pools,tall buildings,trees,pharmercuticals, and any thing else that has killed any one.

The truth is that we are not in a perfect world yet, but its comming.

I am a farmer and use a gun occassionally when I have to.

[asimov (John)]

Better put telescopes on that list Lester! One could feasibly have a nasty accident by sconning oneself on the mount or something..

[beren]

When i was growing up in Queensland I had a air rifle which I enjoyed , remember back then i could walk into Kmart of all places and buy pellets. Now I have mixed feelings about firearm ownership. I'll never forget the images from the services after Port Arthur.The reforms and regulations enforced by the government I support , it may be a irritant for responsible firearm users but frankly that's the price you have to pay for the privilege. This argument that cars , baseball bats etc have all the same capacity to kill like a firearm is senseless .The prime function of a gun is to kill or be a lethal deterrent with short or long range capability.For people who enjoy target shooting at clubs and are responsible owners and do the right thing I do have some idea what they feel about the controls governing there hobby . Being a recreational 4WDriver many areas I venture out to are being closed off due to a few reckless users .The responsible 4WD community suffers while those who disregard signs etc no doubt continue. Perpetrates of crime are always going to have access to firearms to varying degree but least hopefully government regulations will prevent us going down the same path as Americas position where it seems firearm ownership is regarded as a right rather then a privilege.

[mickoking]

Guns are neither evil or good, people are.

The problem lies not with Guns but with people. Most gun owners are good people but these good people are restricted coz of homosidial maniacs that use guns to kill people, sucks hey. But then again we could have liberal gun laws like in the US and we all know the big problems they have there.

[sheeny (Al)]

I voted for guns but I'm not passionate about it.

I grew up with guns, and got into smallbore rifle competition during my teens. My brother was into pistol competition, and we both had a play on the black powder club. All good sport, good lessons and good experience.

I haven't had a gun since I was 18 when I left home. It was about this time that the earliest licencing started and it was simply too hard to mess about with guns living in the city for 6 months of the years and moving out to the country for the other six months (I did my engineering degree by a sandwich course).

No doubt guns need to be controlled, secure and handled sensibly.

I'm not in favour of disarming the populous... it just means that the onlympeople with guns will be the military, the Police and crooks - because they will still have them!

I have spent the last 20 years or so in rescue, and like JohnG have seen the results of gun abuse. It is not to be taken lightly.

They have their place, it's a matter of keeping them there!

Al.

[cahullian]

I have never owned or used a gun in my life but I have no problem with people owning them. Growing up in Belfast in the 70's and 80's I saw first hand what guns can do in the hands of idiots and very nasty people. I think taking guns away from decent law abiding citizens just gives the crims the upper hand.

[ving (David)]

despite the fact that crims use guns on the helpless, I'd not use a gun in self defence... It'd just put me in the same box as the said crim...