Bloody Hoons ....

[TrevorW]

Luckily no one was hurt which is probably more important

[Kunama]

Originally Posted by AstroJunk

That's because the older coppers are fed up with the paperwork associated with scraping dead teenagers into body bags...

+1 ..... Having performed that particular task on numerous occasions, I agree with your summation .

[rat156]

Originally Posted by astroron

Matt this the sort of post we have come to expect from Stuart i'm afraid.
Cheers

Thanks for keeping an open mind Ron.

Perhaps you'd like it better if everyone was allowed to make unsubstantiated claims about others on the internet, oh wait, that's exactly what you just did!!

So, because I make the point of not jumping to conclusions on flimsy, undivulged evidence, I'm the one jumping to conclusions, your and Kunama's logic escapes me. I made no conclusions, I merely pointed out that the guilty driver may have had some extenuating circumstances which didn't mean that he was "hooning". If that upsets you, fine.

This is the dilemma facing all free thinking people when we examine road toll statistics. We have witnesses who say that the driver was speeding, they have no evidence that he was doing so, but what do you think gets written in the copper report under cause of accident? This is where the "Speed Kills" mantra has come from. If you care to examine the stats a bit more in-depth then you'll find some facts that would lead you, if you can actually manage the logic, to some conclusions that will tell you that the government is lying to us (Shock, Horror!).

Have a look at this NZ study as an example.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11283273

In it, if you can't be bothered to read it, it examine the reasons why the NZ road toll, like the one in Aus, has been dropping steadily over the last 30-odd years despite the fact that many more people use the road. You'll see that the greatest contributors to road safety have been better cars and better roads. Trying to keep people from driving whilst intoxicated and from excessive speeding come in third, lumped together. A report in SA on road deaths in 2010 showed that a lot of people involved in fatal collisions were either intoxicated or didn't have their seat belts on.

So, to re-iterate, what I objected to was the instant labelling of this bloke a hoon, it's a cop out perpetuated by the TACs of this world because the real problem is far more complex and difficult to tackle.

Action on education and better roads (rather than more roads) is the only way to tackle the problem, not slogans.

To hotspur, if you had ever been involved in a MVA, sometimes you don't think in the most logical way. I was involved in a serious accident a few years ago in outback Qld. Whilst sitting in the car waiting to be seen by the ambos a nurse who had stopped at the scene was talking to me, she noticed the smell of fuel from the vehicle I had been sitting in for about 15 minutes. When she asked me about it, I remember telling her, yeah, I smelled that a while ago. It was then that she moved me to a safer place. So sometimes all is not as it seems in the first place.

Cheers
Stuart

[geoffw89 (Geoff)]

A valid response Stuart. I guess some of us have been seriously questioning the current road safety mantras. I have put a lot of effort into that as well. Having specialised in weapons, human factors and motorsport engineering I started to question the claims of the every 5km over campaign, which fails mathematically in very short order, then took a long hard look at their detection tech, since dealing with laser and radar guided weapons I understand the limitations and failings of their tech, their failure to abide by federal legislation regarding measurement equipment and calibration, the list goes on. It's a major scam and they are bleeding the community on the blood of the dead and the mindless mob soak it up.

Regardless, this young fellow made a choice to do something stupid, something he may have chosen not to if he had been exposed to proper driver education. He then chose to abandon his girl after extracting her from the wreck. That showed a fairly conscious choice and a major lack of moral fiber. He deserves what is coming to him.

[rat156]

Originally Posted by geoffw89

Regardless, this young fellow made a choice to do something stupid, something he may have chosen not to if he had been exposed to proper driver education. He then chose to abandon his girl after extracting her from the wreck. That showed a fairly conscious choice and a major lack of moral fiber. He deserves what is coming to him.

Agreed, but this was not obvious from the OP.

Cheers
Stuart

[xelasnave]

Stuart the original assessment that the guy was a hoon appears reasonable your responce seems unreasonable and an appology would be nice dont you think.

[Shano592 (Shane)]

I don't need an apology Alex, but thanks.

Stuart is within his rights to air his view. I was ranting to let off steam, and I obviously missed a few details in my original text.

Meh.

Police and insurance have it in hand. It should be put back right soon. The guy will get what is due to him soon enough, via the courts.

[graham.hobart (Graham stevens)]

The road toll in Australia is a national tragedy. I agree that it is not a simple fix. When I first moved here I was shocked by the apparent lack of road vehicle inspections- especially after buying a second hand car which had dangerous driving and brakes.
Caveat Emptor etc

The combination of speed thrills, alcohol, no seatbelts, bald tyres and defective brakes is a terrible one. My first week in Emergency Medicine we had a teenager thrown out the back window of the car as her boyfriend failed to miss a lamp post. Something I will long remember.
It's not just here either- my niece back in the U.k had a brand new car and four others off the same street written off in a very similar circumstance- they bolted as well but left funny white powder all over the road.
Doesn't seem many people are interested in fixing it, meanwhile those little black crosses are stacking up.
Advanced driver training is a great idea- but its the money argument again. Who pays for something viewed as optional by Insurers?
Graham

[geoffw89 (Geoff)]

It may seem high Graham, but more people die here falling off ladders, and there are a greater percentage of people driving daily than using ladders. Guess they can't make revenue off that. I believe a license isn't a right but a privilege, and all that training should be part of the school curriculum or at the users expense if they choose not to complete at school. I look at the Scandinavian countries with their excellent driver training programs and can only wonder at what that would do for us here. But that is too hard and there is too much money to be made.

From an engineers perspective, there will always be road deaths as long as vehicles are moving at any speed. From the perspective of having driven an Ambulance and worked in ER on patrol medic and refresher training, the human element and tragedy is horrific and I can only give thanks for you people that do it every day.

People are now too focused on their speedos, bored with the slow speeds, cars far more capable than they ever have been with lack of feedback, dulled by the message that speed kills so to be safe they just have to drive at the limit to be safe, anxious and frustrated by anyone not doing exactly the limit, lacking courtesy, incapable of highly skilled maneuvers like merging.... the list goes on and I find myself watching and calculating the potential for accidents because of these things. The number of immovable objects that litter the sides of out roads, unnecessary signage that distracts and poor shoulder maintenance also contribute greatly. I don't have to have been a weapons engineer to understand how fragile the human mechanism is, and that it isn't how fast you go but how fast you stop that is the killer.

Don't be fooled by the road safety messages, they are delivered simply to distract while the states reap the rewards of pointless cameras and penalties that do nothing for safety. Kind of like the fast food giants claiming that it isn't over consumption of their highly processed fat, sugar and salt laden food that is at fault, it's the consumers failing to exercise enough.

[xelasnave]

There was an add years ago where a hoon would do his thing and those looking at his childish and immature behaviour would wiggle their little finger demonstrating their disgust . Pity that add no longer runs because hoons need reminding that they deserve all the contempt and ridicule decent and responsible folk can muster. Maybe one day hoons will realise cars are not toys and that burn outs and drifts are simple dumb requiring only a morons mentality to perform. They think they are heros cause they can burn rubber or slide..well no not so just childish idiots. Want to drve fast go race on a track if you cant afford it recognise you are simply a loser trying to act like a big boy.

[geoffw89 (Geoff)]

While I understand the antisocial perspective of people conducting themselves poorly in their motor vehicle, I am yet to hear of a single death or severe injury from a burnout. Having driven in many rallies, raced in the rain on tracks and had many days on skidpans honing my driving skills I can assure the more vehicularly pacific among us that maintaining a controlled high speed slide is not something someone with a morons mentality can usually be successful in. But these are not activities for the neighborhood or busy road.

I tend to get a bit offended with the people that seem to think anyone in a performance car is a hoon. I own several and had the unenviable task of shuttling high valued luxury and supercars around the country as a regular favour for a friend who managed a club providing members with time in the various offerings. It was a blessing and a curse I shouldered as best I could. The misery of having Bentleys, Maseratis, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Astons and more sitting at home for up to a week at a time was more than one man should suffer. The highly offensive program of attempting to belittle people because of their exercise of free choice made it appear it was open season on anyone not driving some mass produced, run of the mill coffin on wheels that was more suited to putting you to sleep before killing you on a wet road rather than making you feel good about sliding into it daily and offering greater safety in the same conditions was morally corrupt and aimed only at the simple minded who were probably more sour that they lacked the courage to enjoy something similar. Punish those who actually do something wrong. It's like saying all astronomers are nerds, all religious folk are pedophiles, all Muslims are terrorists, all Harley riders in black leather and tatts are criminals, all gays are sick and perverted and must be treated until they are good normal people, all those who don't abide by my blinkered view of the world are wrong and must be punished and ridiculed until they reject their corrupted ways and become decent and responsible people, all people wearing glasses are physically deficient and need to be culled, along with anyone who is a burden on the medical system...... This will eventually only end badly once we start down that road unless it is jumped upon hard.

Not everyone wants to race on a track, despite the low costs of doing so. I campaigned for locations for the more exuberant to go and blow off steam, or practice driving skills of any type in a closed and safe environment. To be located in industrial estates where the noise at night would not be offensive to residential areas. Strangely, even though many were there long before residents, a lot of motor sport facilities are being closed or pressured to do so by decent and responsible people happy to take advantage of the lower real estate values, who then start campaigning against the noise and traffic when a big event is on. Eventually it might be impossible to reasonably get to a motorsport facility, and this is one of the reasons young drivers take their enthusiasm to the local streets. Not that I condone that but there is pressure and they want to enjoy their cars. It can't be stopped but it can be managed, with the right amount of will from the community. The ACT closed their drag strip, 1/8th mile and the problems of youngsters taking their egos and enthusiasm to the streets skyrocketed. Maybe we could find a drug to make everyone placid and dull, all wearing brown cardigans and slacks and liking exactly the same things.

Prohibition has never worked. No severity of punishment has ever stopped humans from doing things that offend others, but accepting a certain amount of difference in what people choose to like, allowing them their choices (within reason) and providing suitable venues will be far more successful, and way less like Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. In my opinion anyway.

[UniPol]

You can't stop people from being stupid.

[xelasnave]

Now we are talking..a cull list..pity help anyone who does not fit my norms and expectations of what I expect out of humans. I can understand one not thinking playing cars is ok but that is the point...it is dumb and I ask what character or personality shortcoming do you need to want to act so silly. What is the motivation..is it a look at me thing is it I am so brave I can risk life and limb to get an adrenalyn high.. What is it I think its a combination of those two and I think it simply says one has a low self esteme.. Toy cars what are they for..look at me I am so cool..poor self esteme

..I know this will ofend those who are victims of their lack of whatever and I am sorry.. Sorry that you just dont get it. Burn outs drifting are simple sckills lets not fool ourselvrs..So you can do it a little better than the other guy ..so ehat. What is the motivation ehat are you trying to prove and eho are you trying to provr it to..If one were honest there is an answer but the charactet shortcoming prevrnts a critical personal appraisel. That my opinionand you can call me what you like after all I think I have been rathet frank...toy cat drivers you have a problem you dont impress me I think you are unfortunste with s self estemr problem.
Otherwise you are probaly decent folk..most people think much the dame as me but would not waste the time to be as frank and honest about their viees on folk who dtill play cars even though in most respects appear to have grown up..excuse the mistakes I am on the phone and typing sucks. Please give me hope validate a position that could muster respect for toy car drivets

[xelasnave]

If I had a decent keyboard I would fix those mistakes and tell you how I really feel.

[doppler (Rick)]

I enjoy driving always have always will, if you drive a plain white sedan no one notices you, my daughter is regularly pulled over for random checks because she has p plates and won't conform to the norm, she is a "hoon" not for driving like one but because her car is candy apple pink and has shiny wheels. The road toll has fallen for young drivers so the toll for older, supposedly experienced drivers must be increasing. I wonder what would happen if everyone had to comply with zero alcohol and only 4 demerit points a year?

Rick

[xelasnave]

I am in hospital at South port and another patient just told that a drunk crashed his ferrari doing 190 mph somewhere around here and lived so my opinion of toy car drivers remains..

[xelasnave]

I drive a red car 65000 klms in 2 years havent been pulled over must be the wrong red

[rat156]

Originally Posted by Shano592

I don't need an apology Alex, but thanks.

Stuart is within his rights to air his view. I was ranting to let off steam, and I obviously missed a few details in my original text.

Meh.

Police and insurance have it in hand. It should be put back right soon. The guy will get what is due to him soon enough, via the courts.

Thanks Shano,

I was simply responding to your rant with one of my own. I don't know why people on this forum seem to think that challenging a viewpoint with an alternative is offensive?

I made no personal comments, unlike others (below) and some other comments which, though they didn't actually mention me by name, were clearly aimed at my opinion and were personal rather than logical.

If you felt offended by my comments then I would like to apologise, though from your comments I see that you can hold a civil, adult conversation without resorting to name calling.

Once you provided the extra "evidence" then I believe that I agreed with your comments, so really I don't know why people are getting in a tizz over it!

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Stuart the original assessment that the guy was a hoon appears reasonable your responce seems unreasonable and an appology would be nice dont you think.

Hi Alexander, get a new keyboard, your last post seemed to be written in a language other than english!

As I have stated above, I really don't see what I should be apologising for, unlike other comments in this thread I didn't make anything personal, I simply stated an alternate viewpoint. You don't have to agree with it, but surely I should be allowed to state it??

Originally Posted by astroron

Matt this the sort of post we have come to expect from Stuart i'm afraid.
Cheers

Perhaps it's posts like this that an apology is due, unexpected, but perhaps due.

Cheers
Stuart

[xelasnave]

Hi Stuart I think I need a pad as the phone does not cut it.
I was not trying to be personal but I would not be surprised if you for example took it personally. My only point was..before I too had my rant..was that the expression of your opinion called into question Shanos ability to reasonably sum up the situation which I did feel treated him as not able to put together the facts to which he was privy and you were not..I am sure others may see it differently and thats ok..the main thing is the both of you are happy so there is no more to it. I have never judged you or your pots in a dim light

[doppler (Rick)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

I drive a red car 65000 klms in 2 years havent been pulled over must be the wrong red

You need p plates as well. I have only been pulled up once in my red ford , but the officer said sorry he thought it was "kids" (p platers) driving, gave me a quick rbt and sent me on my way.