Go Back   IceInSpace > Images > Deep Space
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #21  
Old 10-10-2013, 06:29 PM
Peter.M's Avatar
Peter.M
Registered User

Peter.M is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 970
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Haese View Post
Yep better than my effort Ray. Though you are using 4 more inches than I am at present. I like the detail and the image scale. Well done.
That's what she said

I couldn't help myself. Great image of a great target!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:05 PM
PRejto's Avatar
PRejto (Peter)
Registered User

PRejto is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Rylstone, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,509
That's a cracker of an image!! I tried this a year ago but from light polluted Sydney I think it was a lost cause before I started.

I'll be curious to see the Ha blend when and if.

Peter
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 10-10-2013, 08:47 PM
naskies's Avatar
naskies (Dave)
Registered User

naskies is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiraz View Post
I like the negative version as well - somehow we seem to be able to see detail better when it is reversed - don't know why
I was thinking about this today on my way to/from classes today, and remembered that I'd read about it during my visual system module at uni last year.

The short answer is that it's physiologically wired into our retinas.

Our retinas have separate and different circuits, retinal ganglion cells, for detecting a "white dot on black background" (so-called ON retinal ganglion cells) versus a "black dot on white background" (OFF cells). The photosensitive rods and cones that we all know about feed their output (eventually) to the retinal ganglion cells.

It sounds a bit absurd, but the different types of cells are used to detect object edges - see the red/green computer simulation diagram at the bottom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptive_field

When viewing low contrast scenes, ON cells can detect both decreasing light ("grey dot on black background" turns into a "white dot on black background") and increasing light ("black dot on a white background" becomes "grey dot on a white background") changes. However, OFF cells can only detect decreasing changes in contrast.

Therefore, with low-contrast images - looking at faint structures in astro images - our eyes are more sensitive to light decrements (i.e. black detail on a white background as with inverted astro images) because both the ON and OFF pathways are triggered.

Here's an article that describes the technical detail behind the mechanisms (warning: it's not an accessible read for non-physiologists), but receptive fields in general are discussed in most vision texts.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/23/7/2645.full.pdf

Last edited by naskies; 12-10-2013 at 12:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 10-10-2013, 09:49 PM
Paul Haese's Avatar
Paul Haese
Registered User

Paul Haese is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 9,991
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiraz View Post

thanks Paul. aperture sure helps, but the biggest problem was getting enough good seeing in combination with dark skies. I am going to have to find a better dark site than this one if I am going to image this sort of stuff.



Regards Ray
Yeah it took me a few years to find my spot.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 10-10-2013, 09:53 PM
strongmanmike's Avatar
strongmanmike (Michael)
Highest Observatory in Oz

strongmanmike is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 17,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregbradley View Post
Arrrgghhh tread carefully there! I would not blend Ha into the red channel as you lose control. Ha will dominate and you'll get one of those silly M33 with pink splotches everywhere! Lightly does it and Ha as a separate layer in lighten mode so you retain control.

You've got a masterpiece galaxy image here so don't spoil it!
Greg.
Oi! what's wrong with red splodges ...some people love'em

Don't listen to him Ray dooooon't.. get out there blend, BLEND BLEND I say!

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:01 PM
Nicola (Nicola)
Italian Amateur Astronome

Nicola is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Milan, Italy
Posts: 330
Excellent details!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-10-2013, 11:41 PM
Shiraz's Avatar
Shiraz (Ray)
Registered User

Shiraz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee View Post
I think you can stretch more and increase the contrast before it becomes undesirably clipped.... ??
will have a play around and post a revised version if I can do any better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter.M View Post
That's what she said

I couldn't help myself. Great image of a great target!
thanks Peter

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRejto View Post
That's a cracker of an image!! I tried this a year ago but from light polluted Sydney I think it was a lost cause before I started.

I'll be curious to see the Ha blend when and if.

Peter
Thanks Peter. It is pretty hard imaging faint objects in light pollution - can't imagine what it must be like in Sydney

Quote:
Originally Posted by naskies View Post
I was thinking about this today on my way to/from classes today, and remembered that I'd read about it during my visual system module at uni last year.

The short answer is that it's physiologically wired into our retinas.

Our retinas have separate and different circuits, retinal ganglion cells, for detecting a "white dot on black background" (so-called OFF retinal ganglion cells) versus a "black dot on white background" (ON cells). The photosensitive rods and cones that we all know about feed their output (eventually) to the retinal ganglion cells.

It sounds a bit absurd, but the different types of cells are used to detect object edges - see the red/green computer simulation diagram at the bottom:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Receptive_field

When viewing low contrast scenes, ON cells can detect both decreasing light ("grey dot on white background" turns into a "black dot on a white background") and increasing light ("black dot on a white background" becomes "grey dot on a white background") changes. However, OFF cells can only detect decreasing changes in contrast.

Therefore, with low-contrast images - looking at faint structures in astro images - our eyes are more sensitive to light decrements (i.e. black detail on a white background as with inverted astro images) because both the ON and OFF pathways are triggered.

Here's an article that describes the technical detail behind the mechanisms (warning: it's not an accessible read for non-physiologists), but receptive fields in general are discussed in most vision texts.

http://www.jneurosci.org/content/23/7/2645.full.pdf
Thanks very much for that Dave - very clear explanation. So there is a physiological basis for our ability to see dark detail against a light background - fascinating. Now for an hypothesis on why. Maybe our eyes have the same structure as those of smaller creatures that had a need to see predatory birds against the bright sky. I was watching Meerkats at the zoo and they maintain a constant watch on the sky responding to birds and aircraft with alarm. Physics dictates that most objects at a distance end up as dark spots against a bright sky and mammalian visual systems have evolved to be very sensitive to that threat - maybe?.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Haese View Post
Yeah it took me a few years to find my spot.
It was OK over here, but then Viterra decided that the whole town needed to be able to bask in the glow of the floodlighting on their silos and the local council decided that the hospital helipad needed Sodium lighting that burned off the surrounding grass as part of its task.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strongmanmike View Post
Oi! what's wrong with red splodges ...some people love'em

Don't listen to him Ray dooooon't.. get out there blend, BLEND BLEND I say!

Mike
Two experts with differing opinions - unprecedented . Probably will tread warily until I get a better understanding of what I am trying to do

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicola View Post
Excellent details!
thank you Nicola

Last edited by Shiraz; 17-10-2013 at 07:55 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-10-2013, 12:28 AM
Rigel003's Avatar
Rigel003 (Graeme)
Registered User

Rigel003 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,082
Fantastic photo of a magnificent galaxy, Ray. It's like a southern version of M101. Just beautiful.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-10-2013, 08:55 AM
Shiraz's Avatar
Shiraz (Ray)
Registered User

Shiraz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigel003 View Post
Fantastic photo of a magnificent galaxy, Ray. It's like a southern version of M101. Just beautiful.
thanks very much Graeme Regards ray
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-10-2013, 09:12 AM
multiweb's Avatar
multiweb (Marc)
ze frogginator

multiweb is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 22,080
Superb shot Ray. Missed that one. Shows me what can be done with that scope. Pretty high standard.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-10-2013, 09:20 AM
jjjnettie's Avatar
jjjnettie (Jeanette)
Registered User

jjjnettie is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Monto
Posts: 16,741
Beautiful!
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-10-2013, 02:49 PM
Shiraz's Avatar
Shiraz (Ray)
Registered User

Shiraz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
Superb shot Ray. Missed that one. Shows me what can be done with that scope. Pretty high standard.
thanks Marc. The scopes are pretty good optically, but a real PITA to manage mechanically - everything bends and shifts a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjjnettie View Post
Beautiful!
Thanks very much Jeanette

regards ray
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 12-10-2013, 12:33 PM
Ross G
Registered User

Ross G is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cherrybrook, NSW
Posts: 5,013
Great looking photo Ray.

Sharp, detailed with great colour.

Nicely composed.

Probably the best photo I have seen of this galaxy.

Ross.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:30 PM
Shiraz's Avatar
Shiraz (Ray)
Registered User

Shiraz is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: ardrossan south australia
Posts: 4,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross G View Post
Great looking photo Ray.

Sharp, detailed with great colour.

Nicely composed.

Probably the best photo I have seen of this galaxy.

Ross.
Hi Ross. thanks for your generous comment. Regards ray
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 12-10-2013, 01:37 PM
strongmanmike's Avatar
strongmanmike (Michael)
Highest Observatory in Oz

strongmanmike is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 17,693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross G View Post
Great looking photo Ray.

Sharp, detailed with great colour.

Nicely composed.

Probably the best photo I have seen of this galaxy.

Ross.
Yeah? well just you wait till he adds (oh, I mean blends) that Ha in Rossco!

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 03:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Astrophotography Prize
Advertisement