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  #21  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:27 PM
julianh72 (Julian)
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Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
Ironically the OP is making a big thing out of privacy violation in a public forum.
Good point!

You don't need to be a hacker, or have access to any "secure" data, to work out which city they live in, their occupation, and the software applications they use to store their passwords!
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  #22  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:27 PM
clive milne
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Originally Posted by glend View Post
I suggest not writing down your census civil disobedience intentions here as someone IS monitoring you already.
^^^ fixed.
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  #23  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:29 PM
el_draco (Rom)
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I must lead a boring life as I have no issue with the Government asking for something in a Census that they already have on a thousand files.
Then WHY are they asking???
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  #24  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:31 PM
AndrewJ
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Gday Matthew
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With the letter they send, you let them know you want a hard copy and they will send you one to fill in. That's what I will be doing.
They said that they are still going to log your name/addr against the paperwork if you go this route, so its not changing the "privacy" part.
I am concerned re them doing this in the first place ( for privacy reasons ), but my secondary concern is how ill thought out the whole process appears to be.
It may work for people who are happy to follow the process as laid out, but for those who want to create mischief in the background, it sounds like a horribly easy system to hack.
Also, what happens to people who dont have letter boxes???
Its going to cost more to deal ( individually ) with the 20% of "troublemakers" than to just do it as per before.

Also, based on a declared reason is that the ABS can swap data with other Govt departments, it makes it even more of a hackable target,
so whats the long term data protection plans?????.

Andrew

How many large computer systems has the Govt ever implemented, that actually work first time, and are secure for years afterwards,
which is what this will need to do,
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  #25  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:31 PM
julianh72 (Julian)
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Originally Posted by el_draco View Post
Then WHY are they asking???
"What are the benefits of retaining names and addresses collected in the Census?"
Names and addresses will be used by the ABS to generate anonymous keys that can be used to combine existing data sets to create richer and more valuable statistics for Australia.

The new data sets, containing no names and addresses, will improve the lives of Australians by:

. better informing decisions, policies and services in important areas like health, education, infrastructure and the economy
. enabling greater use of existing data and reducing the burden on individuals to provide data that is already available
. providing additional insights and more confidence in decisions, particularly for the most vulnerable and challenging policy areas.

http://help.census.abs.gov.au/about/privacy#backtotop
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  #26  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:32 PM
el_draco (Rom)
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Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
Ironically the OP is making a big thing out of privacy violation in a public forum.
And those who remain silent are complicit in the continued attack on YOUR right to privacy! For gawd sake people the state this country is in is due entirely to the fact that people don't scream blue bloody murder while they are getting shafted. Talk about frogs in a pot being slowly heated...

This government can do you for the simple reason that they can!
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  #27  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:36 PM
el_draco (Rom)
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Originally Posted by julianh72 View Post
"What are the benefits of retaining names and addresses collected in the Census?"
Names and addresses will be used by the ABS to generate anonymous keys that can be used to combine existing data sets to create richer and more valuable statistics for Australia.

The new data sets, containing no names and addresses, will improve the lives of Australians by:

. better informing decisions, policies and services in important areas like health, education, infrastructure and the economy
. enabling greater use of existing data and reducing the burden on individuals to provide data that is already available
. providing additional insights and more confidence in decisions, particularly for the most vulnerable and challenging policy areas.

http://help.census.abs.gov.au/about/privacy#backtotop

Rubbish. The data sets can be reversed engineered to get all your original data. The government already matches you for most things using your TFN. This is just another grab for information so they know as much as they can about YOU. That wreaks of a police state in the making.
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  #28  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:38 PM
clive milne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julianh72 View Post
"What are the benefits of retaining names and addresses collected in the Census?"
Names and addresses will be used by the ABS to generate anonymous keys that can be used to combine existing data sets to create richer and more valuable statistics for Australia.

The new data sets, containing no names and addresses, will improve the lives of Australians by:

. better informing decisions, policies and services in important areas like health, education, infrastructure and the economy
. enabling greater use of existing data and reducing the burden on individuals to provide data that is already available
. providing additional insights and more confidence in decisions, particularly for the most vulnerable and challenging policy areas.

http://help.census.abs.gov.au/about/privacy#backtotop
What ever else Mal-ware Turncoat may be... concerned with our collective welfare doesn't make the top 2000 things.

Damn... another red flag right there.
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  #29  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:40 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Originally Posted by el_draco View Post
And those who remain silent are complicit in the continued attack on YOUR right to privacy! For gawd sake people the state this country is in is due entirely to the fact that people don't scream blue bloody murder while they are getting shafted. Talk about frogs in a pot being slowly heated...

This government can do you for the simple reason that they can!
Look, nobody's after you or trying to shaft you. The census has value in that it gives a clear snapshot in time of the state of the population. It is a little intrusive, yes, but nothing they can't dig up any other way.

I've been in IT for close to 20 years now, grown with it and seen and learnt a few things along the way so trust me when I say that privacy is an illusion. You don't even want to know how deep the iceberg goes.

PS: Never ate frogs, I'm told they taste like chicken, but I do love snails with butter and garlic and that's done in a hot pre-heated oven.
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  #30  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:45 PM
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graham.hobart (Graham stevens)
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census

Bojan's point about those not having a computer is a good one. It's just assumed.
And to the point of idiocy.
I experienced this recently when the gales knocked out our power, internet and home phone all at once.
I rang the hydro on my mobile to check what was happening - the first thing the lady told me to do was to check 'on line'. There was an embarrassed (?I think) silence when I pointed out the bleedin' obvious.
These sort of skilled operators are looking after all our data!!
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  #31  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:47 PM
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rustigsmed (Russell)
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its probably half the price to fly to nz for a couple nights to avoid the census fine.
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  #32  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:53 PM
clive milne
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Originally Posted by rustigsmed View Post
its probably half the price to fly to nz for a couple nights to avoid the census fine.
I'll just go to Rottnest... get some duty free on the way back.
It will probably only cost a couple of hundred more than a flight to Singapore.
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  #33  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:54 PM
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bojan
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Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
......
PS: Never ate frogs, I'm told they taste like chicken, but ...
Yes, they do
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  #34  
Old 28-07-2016, 01:55 PM
el_draco (Rom)
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Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
Look, nobody's after you or trying to shaft you.
Ya think?
I used to think like you and I WAS an IT professional. I DO know how deep the iceberg goes and believe me, from direct personal experience, if these people have an agenda they want to push they will not hesitate to do you, but good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
The census has value in that it gives a clear snapshot in time of the state of the population. It is a little intrusive, yes, but nothing they can't dig up any other way.
Then its a complete waste of Taxpayers money... We're in a "budget emergency"... remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
I've been in IT for close to 20 years now, grown with it and seen and learnt a few things along the way so trust me when I say that privacy is an illusion. You don't even want to know how deep the iceberg goes.
I've been fighting governments and their corrupt agencies, including the laughably termed "justice" system for over 16 years, kicked in more heads than I care to count. Unless people stand up and say NO MORE, they'll keep taking whatever they want.
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  #35  
Old 28-07-2016, 02:23 PM
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Successive governments certainly have worked independently and with big business to scam the people on various levels but I'm not sure the census is a big deal. The biggest crime is govt working with banks, turning us into debt slaves via the real estate market - house prices, debt levels and bank profits are unrealistically high, a cancer in our financial system.
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  #36  
Old 28-07-2016, 02:34 PM
AndrewJ
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Gday Tony

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The biggest crime is govt working with banks,
The govt is the least problem, as they are too inept to be ept.
What happens when they have ALL the info in one place and someone hacks it. All systems becoming linked together will make mass identity theft such a juicy target, it wont be ignored.

Andrew
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  #37  
Old 28-07-2016, 02:38 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Originally Posted by AndrewJ View Post
Gday Tony



The govt is the least problem, as they are too inept to be ept.
What happens when they have ALL the info in one place and someone hacks it. All systems becoming linked together will make mass identity theft such a juicy target, it wont be ignored.

Andrew
No need to hack a central repository, identity theft is widespread. The data being in one place or fragmented across the net is irrelevant IMHO because it is already very easy to get it. Ironically the weakest link in privacy is not electronics, it is humans.
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  #38  
Old 28-07-2016, 02:52 PM
AndrewJ
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Gday Marc
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No need to hack a central repository,
True enough, but its much easier if some clown makes it all available on an unprotected plate.
And i'm not so much concerned re a central repository, just the stated aims of using this data so it can be shared with other depts at a "person level", which wasnt allowed before.
Quote:
Ironically the weakest link in privacy is not electronics, it is humans.
Whilst slack processe by humans is always bad, I always think of the recent debacles on how it was the links between systems that allow the hack, vs the repository. ( Tho that is the fault of the programmer )
eg "Smart lightbulbs" that allowed hackers to simply read out the password of the controlling wifi system, and hence gain backdoor access.
or better still the attack on the BOM, that exposed the interlinks into aviation, defence etc

Andrew

And lets face it, the statistics arent used to do any "useful" planning
as projects are now done based on how close the seat is held
by those in power.
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  #39  
Old 28-07-2016, 02:55 PM
julianh72 (Julian)
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Originally Posted by el_draco View Post
Originally Posted by multiweb View Post
The census has value in that it gives a clear snapshot in time of the state of the population. It is a little intrusive, yes, but nothing they can't dig up any other way.


Then its a complete waste of Taxpayers money...
How do you think they work out population trends for planning where to build schools, hospitals, power transmission lines, water supplies, sewage treatment systems, ...

You can argue that governments don't always do a great job of getting these things right, but imagine how bad it would be if they didn't have regular, reliable Census data?!

Take a look at this page http://unstats.un.org/unsd/demograph...ensusdates.htm and check out the countries which don't take a Census, and ask yourself if you would want to live in any of them!
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  #40  
Old 28-07-2016, 03:05 PM
clive milne
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Originally Posted by casstony View Post
Successive governments certainly have worked independently and with big business to scam the people on various levels but I'm not sure the census is a big deal. The biggest crime is govt working with banks, turning us into debt slaves via the real estate market - house prices, debt levels and bank profits are unrealistically high, a cancer in our financial system.
... Yep... and no one seems to ask the question:
If all the worlds governments are basically insolvent.. ie) they are unable to pay back the money that they borrowed from the banks, where on Earth did those banks get the money to lend them in the first place? They sure as hell didn't get it from manufacturing or selling any useful, physical commodity.

The most successful criminals in this world wear suits and drive Bentlys
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