The Federal budget, it wasn't all bad

[Deeno]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Or the authorities will be able to transfer massive schematic diagram files in a hurry, have instant high definition video conferencing all around the country to bring the best minds face to face in real time instead of having to fly them around, information will travel faster and decisions will be able to be made faster in emergencies etc etc


Mike

By then the population will have out stripped our inadequate electricity supplies to make the NBN go!
Oh no, we're all going to die.
If only we had a telephone
Don't vote for this Government. Your very life might depend on it!

[AndrewJ]

Next really severe drought we might totally run out of water but, we will be able to watch all about it in full definition on the tele!

No we wont.
All the electricity will be sent to the Desal Plant
and we wont be allowed to use it.
Im sure with our new smart meters, they can
just turn off our supply as needed

( How cynical can one get )

Andrew

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Deeno

By then the population will have out stripped our inadequate electricity supplies to make the NBN go!

Great, then there will be no power left to run the street lights, yahh!!!!!!

I don't have a problem with that, just put in a solar system to use during the day and observe all night......sounds good to me.

[Capricorn1(Tom)]

I'm out of this Post.....we all should get together and have a 4x (that's a beer for the southerners)...cheers Tom

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

You don't see the need for broadband and at a personal level neither do I for that matter, but I don't argue that just because I don't need it the money should be spent elsewhere, that there are more pressing issues (and there always are), just because it has no benefit for me. That is a narrow minded view, sorry Doug.

I haven't researched this matter, as I have no real interest in it, and therefore cannot give definitive reasons, however, a quick search of the Internet has abundant articles as to why it should be built.

Here is an excerpt from one such article, and it isn't even about Australia, it is international in scope, so we shouldn't lag behind:

"Survey respondents foresee the main benefits of ultra-fast broadband as including future strategy, staff productivity, staff location and customer relationship management. Around 70 percent of respondents said they would consider investing in collaborative tools, voice-over IP and cloud-based applications and services to leverage the benefits of ultra-fast broadband." full article here: http://www.med.govt.nz/sectors-indus...dband/business

I agree that it is likely most people have debt, but "we are all in a position of debt" is an assumption Doug, sorry. I don't have any debt, and haven't done for a long time. And no, I am not rich either, far from it. I learned to managed money well, and I learned the hard way, in my early twenties. If I cannot afford to pay for something immediately, or quickly, if I had to borrow money, then I simply don't buy it. I never borrowed more than I could pay back quickly.

Whilst there is a significant amount of debt in Australia, there are a significant amount of deposits too. As at July 2012, which is the last figure I saw, Australian banks had deposits totally $16 billion, according to the RBA. So, not everyone is broke then.

I gather you are saying that important issues should be shelved to allow the NBN for yet unknown true gains. Pretty short sighted.

New Zealand think Ultra fast broadband is a requirement so we have to follow suit. I can just see the headlines now Australian jumps off cliff because New Zealander thought it was a good idea.

I can do all these things with ADSL now, I have used VOIP for many years now. No problems.

I am glad you are like me and owe no one a cent. It's a great feeling isn't it. I bet the smile would quickly walk off your face if your savings were taken to pay or help pay the national debt. I recall the street protests and violence in Grease when the gov there looked like emptying bank accounts and that was just the thought of it. With any luck all our savings might just pay the national debt. Bugger it just went up while I was typing. Another tax will fix that.
Better give the politicians and their helpers a pay rise. Again.

It really is hard not to be cynical about politics especially when the Government we have didn't have a majority to do anything anyway. I am sure that is about to change though.

We are expected to hold these people in high esteem but after watch them on the news tonight and contemplating what the slanging match between now and September will be like, perhaps we should lock them all up until after the election.



Just for you Mike. XOXOXO

I think I've had enough as well. My head is sore.

[Kunama]

I would think the slanging match won't be much different to the preceding 12 pages ...................

Now we just need Kevin07 to get rid of the backstabbing redhead and Malcolm Turnbull to oust the marathon man and we might actually have a battle worth watching.

I just wish I had access to faster internet here in Jindabyne ....... it must be great to have fast ADSL in the cities!!!!

..... and lets get these interest rates back up to 17%

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Hagar

I gather you are saying that important issues should be shelved to allow the NBN for yet unknown true gains. Pretty short sighted.
.

No, not at all.

What I am saying is, that for Australia to remain competitive it must maintain its infrastructure, and part of that infrastructure is its telecommunications network. And that is lacking, as there is still a significant copper network, that is slowly failing. And, on this, I do know what I am talking about, as I used to work for Telstra, at least for a couple years, in their corporate test centre. It isn't an efficient network and takes a lot of work to maintain. So, there actually is a need to replace it, so yes, I do think the NBN should be built, just don't agree with the chosen design, as it is going to take too long. Yes, I do think there are other important issues. Can we solve all of them? No, we can't, no matter how much money you throw at them. That is the world we live it.Besides, taking the narrow view in trying to solve all the immediate problems without taking into account the wider implications would amount to financial suicide.

However, if we do not maintain our competitiveness, we will not conduct business and generate income in an efficient manner and then we won't be able to repay our debt, and I don't even want to contemplate the results of that. It is an increasingly competitive and connect world out there and if we want to be part of it, we must maintain the technology for that to happen. And, it was Cyprus, not Greece than the Government put a levy on bank deposits. And, you may be surprised to learn that the Government here is contemplating the seizure of inactive accounts. Read here; http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-02-2...-money/4541116

I am not trying to win an argument here, as there really is no argument anyway. I actually agree with most of what you say, however, I take a wider view, and the issues are complex, no doubt about it.

And, by the way, I don't believe half of what is written in the press and doubt the other half anyway, as they just tell you what they want you to believe. Oh, I am such a cynic. I don't watch the news on television, as it is often biased and only read the ABC and BBC websites, as they are reasonably credible sources. What I do do, is verify facts, preferably with 'primary information' sources or with reputable 'secondary information' sources, such as the Australia Bureau of Statistics, the Reserve Bank of Australia, World Bank, United Nations etc. You may also be interested to know that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) website is also quite useful. I do not use one single source but verify facts through a number of sources.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Kunama

and lets get these interest rates back up to 17%

Oh, Matt....you must be a man who has money invested.

Unlike a lot of people, I don't have to worry about a mortgage, so I don't like to see the interest rates drop, I lose.

As always, there are winners and losers.

[Stardrifter_WA]

You might be interested to know this.

There are only 4,926,500 owner occupied houses in Australia, according to the last figures available from the ABS. What is more interesting is that 69% of these are owned outright. Since 1966 the home ownership has doubled.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....25773700169C7B

[Stardrifter_WA]

Saw this on an office wall.

The objective of all dedicated employees should be to analyse thoroughly all situations, anticipate all problems prior to their occurrence, have answers for these problems and more swiftly to solve these problems when called upon.

------------- HOWEVER ------------

When you are up to your arse in crocodiles, it’s difficult to remind yourself that your initial objective was to drain the swamp!!!!!!


It sums up the need to consider the long term objective.

[Hagar (Doug)]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

You might be interested to know this.

There are only 4,926,500 owner occupied houses in Australia, according to the last figures available from the ABS. What is more interesting is that 69% of these are owned outright. Since 1966 the home ownership has doubled.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....25773700169C7B

Peter for someone who likes to quote statistical information ( What I do do, is verify facts, preferably with 'primary information' sources or with reputable 'secondary information' sources, such as the Australia Bureau of Statistics, the Reserve Bank of Australia, World Bank, United Nations etc. You may also be interested to know that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) website is also quite useful. I do not use one single source but verify facts through a number of sources.), your words not mine, perhaps you had better take another look at the figures you are quoting here. Slightly less than 50% are owned outright.2.478M of 4.926M.
The 69% refers to the percentage of total dwellings that are owner occupied. I hope you are more diligent with your other quoted statistics.

[Deeno]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

Great, then there will be no power left to run the street lights, yahh!!!!!!

I don't have a problem with that, just put in a solar system to use during the day and observe all night......sounds good to me.

Thats the spirit!
Finally, after eight pages a post that can be taken seriously.
Imagine that, galaxy hunting from the backyard. How cool!

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of your 16" lightbridge?

[sophie (Jim)]

Originally Posted by LewisM

Nah, seriously, I don't judge people by what political affiliation they are. Take my life as a weird example: my wife is COMMUNIST (SHOCK, HORROR!). Her Mum still runs as local Communist Party rep back in Russia.

Ha! My grandmother ran as a Communist candidate in Melbourne in the late 40s. To add insult to injury (for the era) she was a single mother who converted to Catholic in a Protestant area as well

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Deeno

Thats the spirit!
Finally, after eight pages a post that can be taken seriously.
Imagine that, galaxy hunting from the backyard. How cool!

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of your 16" lightbridge?

Optically, for the price I think it is actually quite good. From a mechanical point of view, it simply sucked. It was hard to position and to track, but then I added the JMI track-n-train and because that had roller bearings, it made all the difference, very smooth and it tracks well. That then created a small issue with tube balance when using Ethos eyepieces, but have since added some tube weights and solved that problem. Added a GL laser and a Stellarvue RA finder and now it is all good. I like it. Oh, I added some solid rubber locking wheels and I just roll it out of the shed and I am observing within a few minutes. Sweet!

Cheers Peter

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Hagar

Peter for someone who likes to quote statistical information ( What I do do, is verify facts, preferably with 'primary information' sources or with reputable 'secondary information' sources, such as the Australia Bureau of Statistics, the Reserve Bank of Australia, World Bank, United Nations etc. You may also be interested to know that the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) website is also quite useful. I do not use one single source but verify facts through a number of sources.), your words not mine, perhaps you had better take another look at the figures you are quoting here. Slightly less than 50% are owned outright.2.478M of 4.926M.
The 69% refers to the percentage of total dwellings that are owner occupied. I hope you are more diligent with your other quoted statistics.

I bow to your superior intellect. Doesn't alter my main points though, so I concede the win to you.

[JB80 (Jarrod)]

Still I wonder how many of those home owners/mortgages date from 10 years ago or earlier. It's fine if you got in early I guess but these days it ludicrously unaffordable unless you have bags of money. And it's not easy for renters either.

There are a lot of people out there who should never got given a mortgage to begin with and certainly the government should never of thrown money at them to do so, many, if they don't default will be seriously advanced in their years before they can claim ownership. I'd like to see them fix the housing bubble sensibly before it crashes like the Spanish one.

We can't ride the mining boom forever, better hope there is a good plan b when that stagnates.
A proper national high speed rail connecting all major cities would be a tremendously huge undertaking.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by JB80

Still I wonder how many of those home owners/mortgages date from 10 years ago or earlier. It's fine if you got in early I guess but these days it ludicrously unaffordable unless you have bags of money. And it's not easy for renters either.

There are a lot of people out there who should never got given a mortgage to begin with and certainly the government should never of thrown money at them to do so, many, if they don't default will be seriously advanced in their years before they can claim ownership. I'd like to see them fix the housing bubble sensibly before it crashes like the Spanish one.

We can't ride the mining boom forever, better hope there is a good plan b when that stagnates.
A proper national high speed rail connecting all major cities would be a tremendously huge undertaking.

As Doug pointed out, I was in error, and I have no problem admitting that, however, I was actually quoting from two ABS figures, from the link shown, which was 2006, prior the 2008 GFC, and from another ABS figure that was very recent. You are right though, as a lot of those mortgages are more than ten years old. After the GFC a lot of people did pay down debt.

However, I still made the error by using two ABS disparate graphs without really thinking about it, which is my bad. Mind you, if I had been writing a report, I would, of course, double and tripled check my figures matched. But in the heat of an of a debate I made the cardinal sin, not checking that the figures match, and end up a little foolish. Not the or last time time, I am sure.

Oh well, you win some and you lose some, so I have no problem bowing out the debate graceful, as I am not a person who has to win and all cost.

Managed to get a few hours observing in, in between some cloud, so off to bed I go.

[JB80 (Jarrod)]

I wasn't trying to pull you up on it, honest.

It is just something that has been on our minds here of late, in trying to decide the pro's and con's of coming back to Oz and the current housing market is a huge factor in that. In the end Spain won out but I'd never want to see Australia in the mess they are in right now in Spain.
I genuinely think if it isn't sorted out sensibly then a fall could be on the cards which would be terrible for those invested in it but there are more factors than I understand to possibly make a fair assesment. All I know is it's not attractive to buy in Australia at the moment and coupled with rising cost of living it's crippling to those(like my mother) who are on the wrong end of the stick.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by JB80

I wasn't trying to pull you up on it, honest.

It is just something that has been on our minds here of late, in trying to decide the pro's and con's of coming back to Oz and the current housing market is a huge factor in that. In the end Spain won out but I'd never want to see Australia in the mess they are in right now in Spain.
I genuinely think if it isn't sorted out sensibly then a fall could be on the cards which would be terrible for those invested in it but there are more factors than I understand to possibly make a fair assesment. All I know is it's not attractive to buy in Australia at the moment and coupled with rising cost of living it's crippling to those(like my mother) who are on the wrong end of the stick.

Hi Jarrod,

I did realise that, and in fact, it was your comment that made me realise my mistake. But that just underpins my point that you just can't believe everything you hear or read, as people make mistakes and the wrong information is circulated. Also, I made another cardinal sin, and one I had mentioned earlier and that is people can get facts to suit their position. Although that wasn't my intent, I just spent two minutes on the ABS website, looked at two pages, both from two time periods, and mixed up the facts without verification or analyse. It really wasn't intentional and I made a foolish error. Wouldn't be the first time and I am sure it most be the last.

I openly admit that I do make mistake, and have no problem doing so. But, I will say this, if it has anything to do with decisions related to investments, exchange rates etc, I thoroughly analyse and check facts. Case in point, I am going to the US in July for six weeks (to go to Stellafane) and was monitoring the exchange rates. I monitored my term deposit, whilst saving for this trip and kept moving it around to get the best rates at maturity. Many people don't do this and just let it roll over at a lower rate. Bugger that, I made it work for me. I had to constantly analyse the market to determine the period the term deposit. Sometimes I got it right, sometimes I didn't, but overall I managed to built it to the point I could just go. All paid for now, just waiting for July to get here. (are we there yet?) I now what relativity really means. As Einstein said, "Sit next to a pretty girl for an hour, and it will seem like a minute; sit on a hot stove for a minute, it will seem like an hour. Now that's relativity!

I am far from being an expert, but based on my analysis, gut feeling and a little bit of luck, I bought the US currency needed for my six week trip, the day before it started to drop and got a 'mid rate' of 1.013. The mid rate is actually what you can buy it for and not the publicly designated rate which was about 1.037. So, I was very happy that I bought when I did.

Cheers Peter

[Retrograde (Pete)]

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

once politicians and their supporters start to expound scientifically misleading and baseless information things are getting bad . I don't want to live in a society that puts narrow minded politics before scientific rigour.

Mike

I agree. Whilst I'm a born again noob when it comes to amateur astronomy after not being active for 20 years (combination of light-polluted skies & inability to get away on weekends due to weekend/shift work commitments etc) I've been interested in astronomy & science most of my life. I got my science degree in the 80's before joining the IT industry (partly due to lack of opportunities in science at that time) where I still work today. It's only the last few years when science & technology started being misrepresented for political reasons that I became more engaged with politics.

What many people also haven't realised about the NBN is that it will make a modest profit in the longer term (despite being too marginal for most businesses to invest in) so it doesn't actually cost anything other than an up-front investment. As for it being at the expense of things like roads and rail I'm sure everyone knows about Labor's record investment in road & rail projects right? Oh that's right they don't get reported on so I guess they mustn't actually exist.