ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
Waning Crescent 8.8%
|
|

08-03-2010, 10:01 AM
|
 |
Galaxy hitchhiking guide
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,472
|
|
Speed doesn't kill
My favourite hobby horse...and yes it seems we've been lied to by our bureaucrats and pollies. This was in the SMH
Safety expert for Mercedes says strict speeding laws are not the answer to lowering road tolls.
A leading safety expert says a crackdown on speeding is not the answer to reducing the road toll.
The vice president of safety development for Mercedes-Benz, Ulrich Mellinghoff, says crash avoidance systems, better roads and more roundabouts would do more to cut the road toll than tougher speeding laws... .....His claims are borne out by German road statistics. In 1972, there were 20,000 deaths on West German roads. In 2009, there were 4100, despite 20 million more people on the road (including the old East Germany).
The full article can be seen here:
http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/s...0304-pjin.html
Speeding motorists in Oz are such a soft target. Sadly, the revenues raised would not be given up easily....as the German option would require better roads, flow control and driver eductaion...and that costs.
|

08-03-2010, 10:25 AM
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Warragul, Vic
Posts: 4,494
|
|
The gov't raises taxes by various means, including speeding fines. If we didn't pay the occasional speeding fine they would have to increase taxes in some other way.
Of course, the gov't wastes enormous amounts of money, but that's another topic.
|

08-03-2010, 10:33 AM
|
 |
Galaxy hitchhiking guide
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,472
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by casstony
The gov't raises taxes by various means, including speeding fines. If we didn't pay the occasional speeding fine they would have to increase taxes in some other way.
Of course, the gov't wastes enormous amounts of money, but that's another topic.
|
Ah yes...Vicroads ...you get pinged for 3km/hr over down there. One would think that alone would be cause for a little Civil-uncompliance.
|

08-03-2010, 10:37 AM
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Beaumont Hills NSW
Posts: 2,900
|
|
Of course it is not speed on its own that causes trouble. It is poor driving technique often associated with driving faster than ones capabilities.
The government doesn't really care. They are only interested in the money in which case it is extortion. They closed the option of prison as an option years ago using the case of a traffic offender being bashed in gaol. That really was only an excuse to save them money.
The one thing you can be sure of is that the present method will not change for the better. (unless you elect me as PM then we will see some real changes).
Baz
|

08-03-2010, 10:41 AM
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Warragul, Vic
Posts: 4,494
|
|
While speeding fines are annoying, it's too stressful and time consuming to butt heads with bureaucracy over such issues - better to work with the system and focus your efforts on the good things in life.
I'd have a different view if the issue were more serious, such as dragging my offspring off to war - I'd probably die fighting the bureaucracy in that case.
|

08-03-2010, 10:45 AM
|
 |
kids+wife+scopes=happyman
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: sydney, australia
Posts: 5,005
|
|
Peter,
I live some 2km from a major freeway leading out of Sydney. On a weekend, the roar of hoons drag racing down this freeway from my home at 3 am is frightful.
Speeding does not kill, just like a gun does not kill. It is the idiot behind the wheel or trigger that does.
Don't blame the bureaurocracy if these dills are out there. Something else is failing to tame these goons. And the goons that follow don't learn after their mate's brains are scooped up with a bucket and spatula.
I've seen enough carniage due to these folk. I don't want my family to fall victim to them.
If you can get your gollies on a proper racetrack, great. The public roads are not for racing. Don't forget that. And I'm not a professional driver. I've got two screaming kids in the back and a nagging wife next to me. I'm not looking out for some dope fanging their wheels.
There's a place for everything.
Bring on the car press I say!
|

08-03-2010, 10:49 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Renmark, SA
Posts: 2,993
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward
Ah yes...Vicroads ...you get pinged for 3km/hr over down there. One would think that alone would be cause for a little Civil-uncompliance.
|
Not Vic Roads, but that buffoon Steve Bracks that introduced this law. Saving lives? I'm not buying it.
|

08-03-2010, 10:52 AM
|
 |
Meteor & fossil collector
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bentleigh
Posts: 1,386
|
|
I think there is vast difference between speeding and exceding the speed limit.
Driving on a freeway at 105 is exceeding the speed limit and is nothing more than "naughty", I doubt there are many severe accidents where travelling 5 or 10 kph slower would make any significant differnce. Getting up to 115-120 whilst overtaking a car doing 90 on a divided road is just performing a potentially dangerous action as quickly and safely as practicable, but continuing to drive at that speed after passing is speeding and should be fined. Driving in rain like we had at the weekend at 50 in a 60 zone is probably dangerous/careless driving and should be fined.
If you want to "speed" you should be fined, "speeding" should be reserved for a race track or other organised event. As for some of the hoons caught in Victoria lately, I have a great idea for a new reality show, "Crushers" where they telecast live as a hoon gets to press the button that sends his car into the crusher and we can see the expression on his face.
Speeding as such never killed anyone, it's the sudden stop that does it!
|

08-03-2010, 11:03 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,648
|
|
Are you sure it's not just marketing? Aren't Mercedes-Benz trying to flog crash avoidance systems in their new vehicles?
I've spent a large amount of time driving in the last six months, and it's made me realise that there are a lot of people out there who should have their licences taken from them. Sure, it's not speed that kills, but more often than not, the speeders are morons who can't drive fast safely.
Red P platers, seem to all do at least 20kph over the limit, wherever they are, and swerve in and out changing lanes every 7 seconds.
Young women, 50% are texting, the other 50% are holding their phone to their ear.
Tradies, 90% are on the phone, and writing things down in their book, drifting on and off the road.
Remember, half the population is below average intelligence, licencing needs to be a lot more stringent.
Cheers,
Jason.
|

08-03-2010, 11:15 AM
|
 |
Grumpy Old Man-Child
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 1,768
|
|
With the occasional naughty exception I confine my speeding to track days.
There are loads of helpful suggestions to curb hooning and road toll, but the only obvious one is don't give anyone under 25 a license for a vehicle with more than 40bhp.
Have a "3 strikes" rule for Excessive Speeding /DWI. Mandatory sentencing (Too many Judges drive while drunk to be sensible about it!)
1)-Loss of Drivers Permit and car(s) impounded for 3 months. 30 Days at Her Majesty's service. $2500 fine.
2) Loss of DP for 3 years. 6 months prison. Car(s) impounded and sold or crushed. $10,000 fine.
3) Loss of DP forever. 1 year prison. Car(s) as above $50,000 fine.
Injure / Kill someone while over the limit or excessively speeding?
Skip the three strikes and:
30 years for a serious (debilitating) injury and forfeiture of all assets.
Life in prison (35 year parole period) for death. Forfeiture of all assets.
No government assistance to dependents.
Fair few people care about those nasty images they show during driver's ed classes. In any case the memory soon fades when you plant your foot in a really fast car  !
People who willingly flout DUI and Excessive speeding laws don't care about anyone else!
But if they KNEW, for a certainty, and that no judge could contermand them, that they were faced with seriously Draconian penalties that would cost them big money and hard-time, well they might at least think twice.
|

08-03-2010, 02:02 PM
|
 |
Colour is over-rated
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,414
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous
...
Have a "3 strikes" rule for Excessive Speeding /DWI. Mandatory sentencing (Too many Judges drive while drunk to be sensible about it!)
1)-Loss of Drivers Permit and car(s) impounded for 3 months. 30 Days at Her Majesty's service. $2500 fine.
2) Loss of DP for 3 years. 6 months prison. Car(s) impounded and sold or crushed. $10,000 fine.
3) Loss of DP forever. 1 year prison. Car(s) as above $50,000 fine.
...
|
Good start - licence suspensions should be a suspended jail sentence - caught driving while suspended, then spend the rest of the suspension period in jail.
When I was younger and sillier I though speed limits were too low, now I think they are too high. 100km/h on dual-carriage-ways is high enough, non-dual-carriage-ways should be 80 only. Why are we in such a hurry?
|

08-03-2010, 02:06 PM
|
 |
Galaxy hitchhiking guide
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,472
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous
....
1)-Loss of Drivers Permit and car(s) impounded for 3 months. 30 Days at Her Majesty's service. $2500 fine.
2) Loss of DP for 3 years. 6 months prison. Car(s) impounded and sold or crushed. $10,000 fine.
3) Loss of DP forever. 1 year prison. Car(s) as above $50,000 fine.
.........
Injure / Kill someone while over the limit or excessively speeding?
Skip the three strikes and:
30 years for a serious (debilitating) injury and forfeiture of all assets.
Life in prison (35 year parole period) for death. Forfeiture of all assets.
No government assistance to dependents........
|
In your dreams. Draconian penalties are not handed out in Oz for murder with intent.....so why demonize motorists thus?
Daily the tabloids tell us of stabbings, assaults, shootings and murders....yet rarely does the system impose much more than a decade of punishment, and often imposes no more than a "good behavior bond"
Moving at a good clip does not mean something bad will happen. Moving at speed in totally the wrong environment will almost guarantee disaster, and this is what needs to be educated, rather than a "speed (and nothing else) kills"
More bubble wrapping nonsense IMHO.
The Germans already have the answer....but it seems to me Kindergarten Oz just isn't mature enough the realise we have got it wrong, and to take it on-board a proven system.
|

08-03-2010, 02:23 PM
|
 |
Galaxy hitchhiking guide
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,472
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee
Why are we in such a hurry?
|
Planet Oz is around 4,000km wide...it takes a good deal of time to traverse this land at speeds more suitable for model-T Fords.
We really need to come out of the automotive dark ages, and recognise the fact that, on the right road, many vehicles are very safe at autobahn speeds. Crawling in the right lane does bugger up traffic flow and
forcing cars into same speed clusters needlessly increases traffic density and the risk of an accident.
|

08-03-2010, 02:37 PM
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,223
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by koputai
I've spent a large amount of time driving in the last six months, and it's made me realise that there are a lot of people out there who should have their licences taken from them. Sure, it's not speed that kills, but more often than not, the speeders are morons who can't drive fast safely.
|
My small contribution to this conversation is that the driving test is structured so that everybody can get a license, none of the driving courses or tests deal with actually learning how to drive a motor vehicle properly. It is discrimination to not give someone their license, and in this pansy led country, you can't do that.
|

08-03-2010, 03:00 PM
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western Australia
Posts: 8,278
|
|
What's the point in building (or selling) a car that can do 200mph when you legally can't
Driver license suspensions are a waste of time the ones that should be off the road just drive without one
Now a immovable car immobiliser wrist band attached to a perpetrator that will immobilise any vehicle they try and drive would be far more apt than a license suspension
|

08-03-2010, 03:25 PM
|
 |
He used to cut the grass.
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hobart
Posts: 1,235
|
|
Hi All,
Right up front I will out myself as someone who doesn't have a lot of sympathy for the view that people ought to be able to drive as fast as they please. But that doesn't mean I'm closed minded to good arguments.
I think one problem that advocates of unlimited speeds have is that no matter how sensible these individuals are, they will be supporting the desires of people who have no sense at all. Also, arguments adduced from the experiences of far countries will always have to be qualified by the obvious fact that all things are not equal. (Why do we always hear about the Germans and not the Italians? I remember hearing someone argue against immunisations because Burma, which has no immunisation program, has lower rates of ADHD than Thailand, which does! As though Burma even counts its cases of ADHD!)
And basically, if someone needs to be driving fast, then almost ipso facto they shouldn't be, since who will deny that the mere act of hurrying makes mistakes more likely? (I wouldn't want my surgeon rushing through my appendectomy just because she had to pick up the kids from school.) How are we going to legislate that calm, unhurried drivers should be free to speed, while those who are pressured to get somewhere urgently should be forced to slow down?
No point getting too stressed by all this, though, since the law is never going to change...
Cheers,
Brian.
|

08-03-2010, 03:35 PM
|
 |
Buddhist Astronomer
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Phillip Island,VIC, Australia
Posts: 4,073
|
|
I like all you guys but if you want to drive fast that's fine but do it on a racetrack I don't believe that you can drive over the limit and ensure everyone's safety it's not just your driving skill in question but the skills of everyone around you. Basically the road is not the place for fast driving and the racetrack is. I have been in the same situation and did my fast driving on the track where it is as safe as it can be made for all concerned.
Anyway that's my say
|

08-03-2010, 03:38 PM
|
 |
Colour is over-rated
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,414
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Ward
Planet Oz is around 4,000km wide...it takes a good deal of time to traverse this land at speeds more suitable for model-T Fords.
We really need to come out of the automotive dark ages, and recognise the fact that, on the right road, many vehicles are very safe at autobahn speeds. Crawling in the right lane does bugger up traffic flow and
forcing cars into same speed clusters needlessly increases traffic density and the risk of an accident.
|
Yeah and I can see a 4000km long autobahn built in Australia in the next 100 years!  Somehow I don't think so.
It's cheaper to fly in any case. And a lot faster than even the most uber-Deutsch-autobahn.....
|

08-03-2010, 03:54 PM
|
 |
Colour is over-rated
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 2,414
|
|
I'm sure everyone who has ever lost control of their speeding car and hit a tree thought they were a much too-good of a driver for that to happen. Even Peter Brock.
|

08-03-2010, 03:55 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: all over the shop...
Posts: 2,098
|
|
I drive to the speed limit and the road and weather conditions. I must be unique.
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT +10. The time is now 02:42 PM.
|
|