In the spirit of "first image" - M42 of course

[vanwonky (Dave)]

OK people - new gear out for the first run last night here in Perth. I documented my Aligmaster problems here and my not being able to reach focus here but I brought this back in with me last night so it is damn well going out now! So, M42 - 106mm refractor using a diagonal because of focus problem, Canon 350D modded and only a 60 and 40sec sub because of no polar alignment and getting late. No darks, no flats . Some tweaking in Photoshop.

I seem to be missing a lot of the colours that other M42s images seem to have (and data of course). That is just because of my extremely short run right (colour I mean - not data)?

Comment please. I have a cast iron hide

Cheers
Dave

[rcheshire (Rowland)]

Hi Dave.

Aside from the points you mentioned, gradient removal definitely and colour calibration possibly. Otherwise, potential looks good.

[vanwonky (Dave)]

Thanks Rowland. Where am I looking for the gradient for reference? Of course I forgot to mention noise but that is a limitaton the camera will give me. Also a splotch of dark at the bottom left corner which is something on the image train. Dust on the sensor maybe?

[adman (Adam)]

definitely more data would help, as would some flats - there is a decent gradient - lighter at bottom (especially left) than the top, as well as getting rid of the dust shadows. The stars look quite clipped - just plain white dots rather than any colour depth to them, and there is quite a purple-ish cast to the whole image - the outer dust clouds are much more grey than they show in your image.

But a good start - keep them coming.

Adam

[rcheshire (Rowland)]

Had a play in GIMP. Not brilliant but gives an idea of what can be done by selecting individual RGB curves. A big curve to brighten. A blurred mask and then sharpen. An S curve for contrast and Sharpen. I use Pixinsight so not very much help with PS. Quality is lousy due jpeg etc etc but the colour is looking a little better. Noted the ringing around the stars probably due to sharpen.

[vanwonky (Dave)]

Originally Posted by adman

definitely more data would help, as would some flats - there is a decent gradient - lighter at bottom (especially left) than the top, as well as getting rid of the dust shadows. The stars look quite clipped - just plain white dots rather than any colour depth to them, and there is quite a purple-ish cast to the whole image - the outer dust clouds are much more grey than they show in your image.

But a good start - keep them coming.

Adam

Thanks Adam. My hamfisted levels in PS blew out the stars no doubt. Will note that next time.

Originally Posted by rcheshire

Had a play in GIMP. Not brilliant but gives an idea of what can be done by selecting individual RGB curves. A big curve to brighten. A blurred mask and then sharpen. An S curve for contrast and Sharpen. I use Pixinsight so not very much help with PS. Quality is lousy due jpeg etc etc but the colour is looking a little better. Noted the ringing around the stars probably due to sharpen.

Yep big difference! Individual RGB curves - noted. Thanks for the effort.

[vanwonky (Dave)]

Bit more of a go using RGB curves etc. Used a 60sec sub that I trashed because of the blobby stars but I think it had more data to pull some colour out as well. Anyway that's it for this first image. Back out there to try again once I get a grip of Alignmaster or try drift aligning if I can't.

[Peter.M]

The other thing that I have found with alignmaster is you need to be semi spot on before you even use it. I usually do a rough drift and then open it. If you are way off to start with then when it slews away to do the alignment the star will be so far away that no adjustments of the mount will bring it back to center.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Hi Dave,

Hope you don't mind I like to try adjustments on some images it is the way I learn by playing around. Managed to get something out of your first image which is not bad. My skills are improving although not in the high end yet but mostly with the first one I found the green level was mostly to blame. Mine was adjusted with GIMP like most members I believe although I also have a plug in called Wavelet De-Noise which I applied in your case.

I also apply a little bit of Curves but must admit wasn't concentrating the best when i did it.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by Peter.M

The other thing that I have found with alignmaster is you need to be semi spot on before you even use it. I usually do a rough drift and then open it. If you are way off to start with then when it slews away to do the alignment the star will be so far away that no adjustments of the mount will bring it back to center.

I have to agree once you have a good initial alignment I was able to get double the amount of exposure time on my next time around. I was always stuck at 60 seconds. I finally managed to find a couple of stars in reasonable view a few nights ago and was able to get 120 seconds unguided. I also believe I could have managed a few shots at 240 seconds but it was very late at night.

I use my 450D for alignment but I think I will use the eyepiece initially before switching to the 450D.

[vanwonky (Dave)]

Originally Posted by mswhin63

Hi Dave,

Hope you don't mind I like to try adjustments on some images it is the way I learn by playing around. Managed to get something out of your first image which is not bad. My skills are improving although not in the high end yet but mostly with the first one I found the green level was mostly to blame. Mine was adjusted with GIMP like most members I believe although I also have a plug in called Wavelet De-Noise which I applied in your case.

I also apply a little bit of Curves but must admit wasn't concentrating the best when i did it.

Huge difference! Thanks Malcolm. No, I have no problem with anyone tweaking anything I present. I think it is going to be years before I can concern myself about that. I actually appreciate how people go out of there way to do it and since it helps me learn how could I argue.

[vanwonky (Dave)]

Originally Posted by Peter.M

The other thing that I have found with alignmaster is you need to be semi spot on before you even use it. I usually do a rough drift and then open it. If you are way off to start with then when it slews away to do the alignment the star will be so far away that no adjustments of the mount will bring it back to center.

Originally Posted by mswhin63

I have to agree once you have a good initial alignment I was able to get double the amount of exposure time on my next time around. I was always stuck at 60 seconds. I finally managed to find a couple of stars in reasonable view a few nights ago and was able to get 120 seconds unguided. I also believe I could have managed a few shots at 240 seconds but it was very late at night.

I use my 450D for alignment but I think I will use the eyepiece initially before switching to the 450D.

Thanks guys. I think the alignment issue is going to be my biggest challenge with Alignmaster not giving me good stars for my backyard. I have changed the 'sterne.txt' file provided on IIS for more local stars but still no good. Oddly enough when I first loaded Alignmaster (on a night I didn't have the scope setup) it gave me Canopus and Achenar at the top of the list at about 8.30. No problems I thought. Never since . I am going to give drift alignment a go just so I can tear some more hair out.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by vanwonky

Huge difference! Thanks Malcolm. No, I have no problem with anyone tweaking anything I present. I think it is going to be years before I can concern myself about that. I actually appreciate how people go out of there way to do it and since it helps me learn how could I argue.

I do not mind as people have help me in the past would be glad to reciprocate.

Just another point I find that it is easier to process when images are stacked and colour channel are aligned before using GIMP. This is where I noticed the green in your image was a fair bit out. GIMP is not easy to use when it comes to level adjust because I can see all three channels at the same time so i have learnt a technique to compensate for this.

I feel after many time trying the key to get easier processing is plenty of Lights, Darks and recently I have implemented Flats which have help a heap. The learning curve is very steep and requires an enormous amount of patience at the start but now I have managed to find DSS settings that help and allow me to quickly stack now. I also now have a routine in processing that help and now and future I apply small changes in the learning curve learning a new technique every now an then. Currently my learning process is layer masking and there is plenty of tutorials out there.

Time and patience is all that is needed and every-time you learn something and see the improvements the enjoyment really come out to sing.

[mswhin63 (Malcolm)]

Originally Posted by vanwonky

Thanks guys. I think the alignment issue is going to be my biggest challenge with Alignmaster not giving me good stars for my backyard. I have changed the 'sterne.txt' file provided on IIS for more local stars but still no good. Oddly enough when I first loaded Alignmaster (on a night I didn't have the scope setup) it gave me Canopus and Achenar at the top of the list at about 8.30. No problems I thought. Never since . I am going to give drift alignment a go just so I can tear some more hair out.

Sorry have to laugh, I have exactly the same issue. I had to wait till 1:00am in the morning before certain stars are available to align. I too an in the middle of altering the file as well.