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18-03-2019, 11:10 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Narangba, SE QLD
Posts: 1,551
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QHY to release Medium format sensor cameras
QHY has just finished testing of their new medium format cameras. These will be formally released at NEAF next month.
The QHY411 (Sony IMX411) is a 150Mpixel CMOS camera, 16bit ADC, 3.76micron pixels, 44Ke full well, Image Area 54mm x 40mm.
The QHY461 (Sony IMX461) is 100Mpixels with a smaller image area of 44mm x 33mm.
On the Sony website these sensors are available in colour or mono.
https://www.qhyccd.com/bbs/index.php?topic=6863.0
https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/produ...ion/index.html
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18-03-2019, 11:52 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Macquarie
Posts: 7,096
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Competition is great, but I would not jump too early on these. ZWO had problems in Beta testing with the 294.
So just saying wait for the Beta testers reports.
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18-03-2019, 01:19 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Narangba, SE QLD
Posts: 1,551
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I agree Glen, wait for the guinea pigs to test them.
Plus for us mortals we would have to win lotto first, before buying one and a scope that can provide a wide imaging circle.
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18-03-2019, 07:22 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Queensland
Posts: 3,240
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Such large sensors with tiny pixels will put any lens through its paces and I honestly doubt there are many short focal length telescopes capable of providing a fully corrected circle for these sensors. Yes, FSQ has a huge corrected circle but these optics have been well tested with 9micron pixels, not 3.76micron this far from the optical axis. But who knows, maybe FSQ could well-handle these new sensors all the way to the corners?
On top of that, I totally agree with what have already been said, the cost would certainly put to a test most home-budgets and consequently relationships...
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18-03-2019, 08:33 PM
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Drifting from the pole
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,458
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The latter at least is most likely the sensor going in the next medium format Fujifilm GFX that they keep showing in prototype form. The GFX lenses are generally highly regarded. No doubt the price will be astronomical
I hope Sony pays attention to their amp glow situation, otherwise the existence of these counts for nothing.
TBH I’m more interested in seeing if Panasonic let their full-frame sensor out of the factory in mono form...may be another few years before that happens
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20-03-2019, 01:42 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Narangba, SE QLD
Posts: 1,551
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Here is the sales / data sheet on the QHY411 and photo's of the camera. I note it also supports liquid cooling as well as TEC cooling. The camera is USB3 but for faster data transfer rates there is a 10Gb Ethernet port version.
https://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=c...atid=138&id=49
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20-03-2019, 02:53 AM
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Feel free to edit my imag
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Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Llandysul, WALES, UK
Posts: 1,381
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slawomir
Such large sensors with tiny pixels will put any lens through its paces and I honestly doubt there are many short focal length telescopes capable of providing a fully corrected circle for these sensors. Yes, FSQ has a huge corrected circle but these optics have been well tested with 9micron pixels, not 3.76micron this far from the optical axis. But who knows, maybe FSQ could well-handle these new sensors all the way to the corners?
On top of that, I totally agree with what have already been said, the cost would certainly put to a test most home-budgets and consequently relationships...
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Same old argument as with cameras, there is little point in 50Mp sensors in cameras when even the best lenses can not resolve better than 30Mp
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20-03-2019, 09:59 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ukastronomer
Same old argument as with cameras, there is little point in 50Mp sensors in cameras when even the best lenses can not resolve better than 30Mp
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That's not true.
Sony GM lenses are rated for up to 100mp. I am sure many Zeiss lenses would as well. The better Canon L lenses too.
Wow, this is the first significant advance in astro cameras for some time. I suppose the smaller CMOS sensored cameras have been the other significant progress.
The switch to CMOS will continue no doubt.
You'd need a fast computer to handle the large files though.
Greg.
Last edited by gregbradley; 20-03-2019 at 10:10 AM.
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20-03-2019, 10:28 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Killara, Sydney
Posts: 4,147
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Just wish they’d make sensors with bigger pixels, not more pixels.
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20-03-2019, 10:53 AM
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Drifting from the pole
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavytone
Just wish they’d make sensors with bigger pixels, not more pixels.
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What’s the use?
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20-03-2019, 04:08 PM
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Galaxy hitchhiking guide
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The Shire
Posts: 8,274
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I looked at sCMOS for a time, but they (and standard CMOS) still suffer from amp glow with long exposure times.
I'd rather see emCCD's at a more affordable price point....current prices are eye-watering, but the few image examples I have seen from them that are on the web, are very impressive.
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20-03-2019, 07:25 PM
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Drifting from the pole
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,458
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Sony classifies these as “Consumer Camera” sensors...
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20-03-2019, 08:49 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Queensland
Posts: 3,240
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Apparently the 150mp version will cost US$50k, made to order. So much for CMOS being significantly cheaper than CCDs...
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21-03-2019, 11:01 AM
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Not even a speck of dust
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1,474
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopardalis
Sony classifies these as “Consumer Camera” sensors...
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Well all those big 14" Celestron SCT Rigs are considered "amateur telescopes"
Would be nice to afford to play in the big pool one day right?
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30-03-2019, 09:26 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavytone
Just wish they’d make sensors with bigger pixels, not more pixels.
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I don't think that is the trend anymore. Sensors have advanced past the original large pixels = low noise and more sensitivity.
Modern Sony mirrorless full frame sensors have read noise around 1 electron at ISO1600 these days. CCDs generally run at about 8-12 electrons typically.
So smaller pixels make more sense now.
Also these sensors are backside illuminated often which means no circuitry between pixels as that is now underneath the sensor.
Low read noise, shorter exposures with lots of subexposures seems to be the new model for astro imaging. That requires smaller pixels, lower read noise, low dark current, high QE all things these high level CMOS sensors have now.
As far as amp glow I thought that was solved. Some camera sensors have amp glow but I think these days most don't.
Per QHY amp glow is caused by slow transfer times and they use a DDRAM buffer to speed it up. Like the Sony A9 camera.
Greg.
Last edited by gregbradley; 31-03-2019 at 08:35 AM.
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31-03-2019, 11:47 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Narangba, SE QLD
Posts: 1,551
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QHY600 now released
QHY has now released their full frame (36 x 24mm) version of these BSI Cameras.
Pixels: 60mega pixel
Pixel size : 3.76um
ADC: native 16bit
Fullwell: 49ke (196Ke with 2x2 binning) (440Ke with 3x3 binning)
Readout noise about 1 to 2.3 electrons (hi gain / lo gain)
Both monochrome/colour available
On board DDRIII memory : 2GBytes
Interface: USB3.0 + optional Giga Ethernet
Two stage TEC cooling
Electronic Shutter
https://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=c...catid=94&id=55
Last edited by billdan; 31-03-2019 at 12:39 PM.
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31-03-2019, 12:44 PM
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Drifting from the pole
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,458
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Interesting specs
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31-03-2019, 06:13 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billdan
QHY has now released their full frame (36 x 24mm) version of these BSI Cameras.
Pixels: 60mega pixel
Pixel size : 3.76um
ADC: native 16bit
Fullwell: 49ke (196Ke with 2x2 binning) (440Ke with 3x3 binning)
Readout noise about 1 to 2.3 electrons (hi gain / lo gain)
Both monochrome/colour available
On board DDRIII memory : 2GBytes
Interface: USB3.0 + optional Giga Ethernet
Two stage TEC cooling
Electronic Shutter
https://www.qhyccd.com/index.php?m=c...catid=94&id=55
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Wow, that is not even in a Sony mirrorless yet. I wonder if this is the next sensor in the next Sony A7Riv model yet to even be rumoured.
This 60mp sensor was released a few months ago. I think it also has a global shutter.
Its totally cutting edge.
Greg.
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31-03-2019, 08:19 PM
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Dark sky rules !
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: 52N 6E (EU)
Posts: 1,152
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Does this camera have a memory card slot and a standard usb-c power supply ? Then the hassle with cables and the need for a computer during imaging is gone. And the modern DSLRs like Sony A7R or Nikon Z7 can compete well with these devices in sense of ergonomics and user friendliness.
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