Best new scope

[nels (Janelle)]

Hi, I have been looking at buying my fist scope and would love to hear what people would recommend, I want something hopefully under $1000, I am currently thinking
-Saxon EQ5 Reflector
-Celestron Omni XLT 127 Cassegrain
Or even -Celestron Nexstar 130 SLT Computerised

I originally thought one with Go To capabilities would be good as I have three kids and thought it would save time but I think I have decided that the extra money would be better spent on more aperture I really want to WOW them with what they see, and you have to buy accessories like battery packs, and I think a Dobsonian would be too large to haul around.

I live in a remote area so I cannot view any scopes in person to get a better feel, so it's all just speculation on my part.

Would love anyone's suggestion of possible scopes I have not mentioned or from anyone who has one of the ones I did.

Cheers, Janelle

[rustigsmed (Russell)]

Hi Janelle,

I'd still go with a dob, you should have no problems with an 8" dob; 10" is starting to get big and 12" is large. You get much more bang for your buck, plus observing through a dobsonian mount is much easier to use. If you stretch a few hundred more past $1000 you can got goto and tracking on an 8" dob. If you decide for non computerized it will cost much less then you can get some accessories and remain under the 1k mark.


A reflector on an equatorial mount can be a bit of a pain to view with the eyepiece ending up in odd locations.

All the best with the choice.

Cheers

Russell

[04Stefan07 (Stefan)]

I got the 130SLT and I think it is a fantastic telescope. Only problem I would say is the mount/tripod isn't as steady as I would like it to be. This made me do some modifications such as adding tube rings, electronic focuser and a new tripod.

Best feature is how easy it is to use with the NexStar hand controller! So many different aligning methods.

As Russell said a Dob is better bang for the buck and would be better if you do not need to move it around anywhere.

[GraemeT (Graeme)]

G'day Janelle, I would suggest you read the stickies in the Beginners forum : http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ead.php?t=5953.
There's tons of good advice there which will make you more comfortable with any decision you make.

[sn1987a (Barry)]

Hi Janelle if you go to "Australia Astronomy buy and sell" website you will often see people in WA selling their 8 and 10 inch dobs and often very good deals. Also BTOW in Malaga sell scopes new. I would recommend a good second hand deal to cut your teeth on. You will soon learn what you really want if and when you're ready to trade up.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Hi Janelle,

to IIS!

I can understand the reasons for mentioning the telescopes you do, and for the reservation you may have with a dob. AND that you have three kids (good onya mum!) and live at a remote location. But, for these very reasons I would suggest you actually consider a dob. I'll try to persuade you...

Yes, essentially a solid tube dob is a "bulky" item. But, an 8" instrument is surprisingly easy to handle. They are not heavy, and the scope comes away from the mount easily so you don't need to handle the entire thing in one go. Depending on how old your kids are, you may have confidence enough for them to deal with the thing, if not singularly then in pairs.

There are no tricky technical elements to a dob. It is a simple 'gun turret' set up - up and down, around side to side. Just plonk it down and use it. An equatorial mount requires some more attention to be effective. Even a go-to requires attention to get working properly and effectively. These are not fool proof systems. The complexity of an eq mount I am prepared to say is the single biggest killer of enthusiasm with new players in astro as a first scope. The only "tricky" part of a 'push-pull' telescope is just aligning up the finder scope to the main tube, and you're off.

The sky is not an impossibly difficult place to navigate in. If you are already in a remote area, then you actually have a head start over everyone else who isn't. Believe it or not, you can already see hundreds of deep sky objects naked eye! Nebulae, star clusters, even some galaxies. It can be just as simple a matter as aiming the scope at one of those "fuzzy" stars, and you will be in for a surprise. And star charts can be a simple or as complex as you want them to be. And today, with smart phones, there are now apps that allow you to sit the phone on the scope and use it as a push-to scope, using the phone to guide you to a target. Push-to is the same as go-to, but you are moving the scope using a computer screen of some type to guide you.

A dobbie is a very forgiving first instrument. Very simple to use, and as you say, has a lot of aperture for not a whole lot of money. Should the astro bug not take in your house hold, the money outlay won't hurt as much.

You mention you would like to "WOW" the kids. The light gathering capability of the scopes you mention, and their resolving power, are just under a really "WOW" inducing aperture. An 8" instrument has that capacity. An 8" dob has the capacity and ease of use to make it even more appealing. An 8" dobbie takes 1 min to set up and be playing. The simplest go-to system takes a lot longer. When the urge to take out a scope hinges on how tired you are, you won't be heading for the go-to.

Now, if the astro bug does bite, that same 8" dob can be easily changed to suit an equatorial mount. Nothing is lost, and there is an easy evolution in the way the interest in astronomy develops.

Finally, the single biggest asset you already have is your own kids! Within minutes they not only get the hang on how to move a push-pull dob, but they will then be knocking off deep sky objects like a veteran of the hobby, even without charts.

Please consider a simple dob as your best first choice option. After more than 30 years in this hobby, I have seen a thing or two.

Mental.

[nels (Janelle)]

Thanks everyone! for the input, I have been having a read and think, and am now thinking I will go with an 8" Dob for a home scope, and get a pair of astronomy binoculars as a more portable option for camping and things,

do you think this is Overkill?

and if I do go with this option I am now wondering what sort of binoculars to get...........ha ha

Are they simply rated as bigger the number eg: 20 x 80 better than 10 x 50

TIA Janelle

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

Astro binos overkill? Not at all!

The way to think of it is this: A telescope concentrates the view on a very small area of the sky. Believe it or not, there are some features of the night sky that a telescope just doesn't cut the mustard. These features require really low magnification and a wide field of view. This is where binoculars come into their own.

Think I'm kidding? The scope I take to dark sites is my 17.5" dob - a real light bucket. But, no matter how I try, it is just the wrong instrument for wide, sweeping views of the Milky Way with its myriad of dark dust clouds, massive star clouds, and even some elusive nebulae respond better to the smaller, more concentrated image that binos give.

Which astro binos? 80mm is a BIG set. And with 20X magnification, hand held is not an option, and mounting such a pair on an everyday photo tripod is not a safe option - they are just too heavy, and require more specialised mounting. My own astro binos are an 11X70 pair. They give me a massive 4.5deg true field of view (the full Moon is 1/2degree in size, 4.5deg is 9 full moon diameters). 70mm is still very big, but at only 11X magnification, they are still a hand held option. They are still on the large side for a photo tripod, but they are just as easy to rest against a post or fence, or whatever, to keep them steady.

A good place to get both the scope and binos are from Andrews Communications:

http://andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

Look under the Guan Sheng banner for the 8" scope, which they have listed at $429. The 11X70 binos you'll find under their "Binoculars" heading in the left margin, and then under their "Andrews" banner for $169. For the price, these binos are very good. Andrews also has good rates for freight.

[Tropo-Bob (Bob)]

Janelle, I would recommend a 6", F8 Dob. This is an instrument with plenty of punch and actually has a better image quality across more of the field than the an 8" Dob. Currently National Geographic has a special where on can be purchased for about $390 delivered. See http://shop.australiangeographic.com...ope-P4075.aspx
Although, I would also check prices with Bintel.

I would recommend buying some better Vixen eyepieces that are about $50 each from MyAstroshop. These are very satisfactory eyepices and will work well with the 6". If you only buy 2 eyepices, I would suggest the 30mm & the 15mm. You may also wish to upgrade the finder with a red-dot finder.

Binoculars certainly are useful for astromony. I would recommend 10x50 or 8x40 Pentax binoculars. I have both models and tend to use the 8x40s more in town, but use 10x50s more when I observe from country sites. Bintel can also provide these.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

+1 for what Bob is saying here Janelle , you wont regret it if you buy from a reputable telescope shop like Andrews , OZ scopes , Bintel or here in Perth WA Keith at BOTW ( his prices are very good ) .
Go the 6 inch Dob .
Brian.

Originally Posted by Tropo-Bob

Janelle, I would recommend a 6", F8 Dob. This is an instrument with plenty of punch and actually has a better image quality across more of the field than the an 8" Dob. Currently National Geographic has a special where on can be purchased for about $390 delivered. See http://shop.australiangeographic.com...ope-P4075.aspx
Although, I would also check prices with Bintel.

I would recommend buying some better Vixen eyepieces that are about $50 each from MyAstroshop. These are very satisfactory eyepices and will work well with the 6". If you only buy 2 eyepices, I would suggest the 30mm & the 15mm. You may also wish to upgrade the finder with a red-dot finder.

Binoculars certainly are useful for astromony. I would recommend 10x50 or 8x40 Pentax binoculars. I have both models and tend to use the 8x40s more in town, but use 10x50s more when I observe from country sites. Bintel can also provide these.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Janelle , as Astro says , hell yes grab a pair of binoculars .
I use my 8x56 all the time but if you look in 'Equipement discussions' here on IIS you will see my thread on Tiny Binos , my new 16x32mm Bushnell's , these perform very well , so yes! , grab some 7 or 10x 50mm bino's , but as said get them from a reputable astro shop and save your self some grief .

Not a camera shop as these people ( bless their hearts ) don't know the night sky like us .
Oh yea to astronomy 101 . IIS style .
Brian.

Originally Posted by nels

Thanks everyone! for the input, I have been having a read and think, and am now thinking I will go with an 8" Dob for a home scope, and get a pair of astronomy binoculars as a more portable option for camping and things,

do you think this is Overkill?

and if I do go with this option I am now wondering what sort of binoculars to get...........ha ha

Are they simply rated as bigger the number eg: 20 x 80 better than 10 x 50

TIA Janelle

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

I have to disagree with the 6" scope bundle. Yeah, you seem to get a few things extra, but the extra sees you end up with a smaller scope and questionable extras. The book is not the best - much of the sky is not covered; the planisphere can be had cheaper here from IIS; & the binos are a waste of time & money. The net gain is really a loss. Sorry, but I would never recommend a product from National Geographic - their stuff is only department store quality (dead give away their description of the eyepieces: "Super" - super what? Super is not an eyepiece optical design, rather it is used here to insinuate something, and only misleads) and you don't get any backup astronomy service from the retailer. You will be always better served in buying from a proper astronomy retailer. Better products, advice & service. Bintel, Andrews, My Astro Shop, & a few others.

[Tropo-Bob (Bob)]

Alex, the National Geographic telescope is a Skywatcher 6" Dob. If U look at the specs of the 6" Skywatcher on the Bintel website, it also comes with Super eyepieces. I have used Super eyepieces and though they beat the H type easily, they are only just adequate and that is why I suggested the Vixen eyepieces. The other bits and pieces in the package are incidental to the scope and if they are of use, well that is a bonus.

The main point of considering buying a Skywatcher from National Geographic is that it includes the delivery fee, to what appeared to be a remote destination in WA.

Some of us live thousands of kilometers from the better telescope shops, and really have to factor-in the burden of freight costs when considering a purchase.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

I am aware of the source of this 6" scope. No need to tell me about cost factors either. But it is a false economy I'm trying to avoid. That 6" scope is a poor choice, regardless of the price, along with freight included.

Scope wise again, this is a poor instrument, regardless of the source. It is made as cheaply as possible - the focuser usues the cheapest, nastiest fittings. The finder is small and the stalk is inadequate to be good. And again, the eyepieces are "super"????? Still think this is a good scope?

If cost is all you think about, good luck to you.

I care about cost, but I would be disingenuous if I recommended anything but the real McCoy. That is why i noted various retailers. The cost factor is then dealt with by researching price amongst the fair dinkum astro retailers. That I think is where good advice comes into its own.

The Vixen eyepieces mentioned are fine - I certainly agree there that just about any eyepiece design beats the Huygens (that's what the "H" stands for). There are other fine, and inexpensive, eyepiece choices available too. I've spent a lot of my time looking for those inexpensive gems. I for one don't believe in dropping $900 on an eyepiece. In my eyepiece kit you will find my cheapest is $60 new (bloody fantastic EP it is too), through to $250. While I've still got my first ever 2" eyepiece, & it is still ok, & it has been replaced by a better quality piece, I still recommend it as a fantastic first choice, and in many instances, it may be all the 2" eyepiece some people need. I keep that piece just for outreach nights as it is a great eyepiece for novices to use.

Bob, I've left you a PM too.

[Tropo-Bob (Bob)]

Alex, I think we will have to agree to disagree here. But, that said, this is not cheese and chalk, as the 8" Dob would be my second recommendation.
I think that the eyepieces supplied with almost any Dob are not up to a good standard, but did find that the Super ones worked Ok in the 6" F8. I still have 2 of them somewhere amongst my collection of about 50 eyepieces.
I have owned both a 6" GS Dob and an 8" GS dob and used the 6" much more than the 8". The only observation that I made where the 8" was a clear winner was when I could see the shadow of Titan on Saturn with it, but not with the 6".
I thought the Skywatcher 6" was similiar to the GS 6". Am I missing something here? (I have only seen photos of the Skywatcher). Very interesting, since we have been exchanging posts, Bintel website seems to indicate that the Skywatch 6" is maybe about to disappear and they have started listing a Bintel 6" dob, which I assume is actually a rebranded GS.

[mental4astro (Alexander)]

This has turned into a brilliant thread! Well, for me at least.

Bob, great post. It, along with the PM I sent you has crystalised a term that I've been looking for. And it has brought me back to first principles I nearly forgot.

The term I've been looking for and have formed is "Gear Snobs". I dislike these with a passion. I would hate to be considered as one, and please, someone shoot me if I become one! PLEASE!

First principles for me is "any scope is better than no scope". My little 2" Tasco taught me that. I still have that little scope, and I've also updated its 0.965" eyepieces with 1.25" ones, and this little guy is now even more amazing to my eyes now 30 years later.

My entire argument in this thread has been to guide the original poster to their best options for the budget & circumstances they mentioned.

Now, if all someone can afford is that NG 6" dob, then I'd be doing that person a great disservice if I denied it being a viable option. The greatest SERVICE I could then do for that same person is advise them on how to get the most out of that scope - the very lessons that the little 2" Tasco taught me.

Brilliant thread! Ta Bob.

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Alex
"Any scope is better than no scope" - I like that! It keeps with my all round philosophy when advising beginners. It is the reason why I tell beginners not to get hung up on collimation as an slightly imperfectly collimated scope being used to observe is much better than one that spends hours being adjusted to micrometer perfection then never gets out because the owner is to frustrated.
While we give out advice which we all hope is helpful, our main aim should always be to get people out looking at the night sky with whatever equipment they can afford, be comfortable with and hopefully enjoy using.

Cheers
Malcolm