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Old 23-05-2021, 12:38 PM
DJT (David)
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Did I image an Asteroid? Need a bit of help

I was looking at ways to find differences in images taken over a night to identify things that moved and used pixel math to subtract one image of a galaxy cluster from another.

After a good look around I found an object that had moved between Image 1 and image 14 over a period of roughly 80 minutes.

I rechecked against an image taken halfway through the run and again the object indicated it had moved.

Luminance Exposures were 300 seconds and the image scale is 3.5

My question is, how can I find out what the object was. Are there sites which can help identify what the object is based on time, ra and dec?

Image attached. Thanks
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Old 23-05-2021, 01:50 PM
DJT (David)
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quick update. Am looking at the Minor Planet Network as there is quite a lot of information there
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Old 23-05-2021, 02:22 PM
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tonybarry (Tony)
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Hi David,

What time was the image taken ? How long an exposure ? what mount (EQ or AZ) ?

I presume the target is IC3475.

Regards,
Tony Barry
WSAAG
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Old 23-05-2021, 02:59 PM
DJT (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybarry View Post
Hi David,

What time was the image taken ? How long an exposure ? what mount (EQ or AZ) ?

I presume the target is IC3475.

Regards,
Tony Barry
WSAAG
Hi Tony, details here

Imaged using an EQ Mount

["DATE-OBS", "\'2021-04-08T12:40:36\'", "YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:ss observation start, UT"],

["OBJECT", "\'IC3475 \'", ""], // row 30
["OBJCTRA", "\'12 32 42.000\'", "Right ascension (hours) (compatibility)"],
["OBJCTDEC", "\'+12 46 36.00\'", "Declination (deg) (compatibility)"],

300 second exposures
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Old 29-05-2021, 09:39 AM
srmnm (Will)
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Hi DJT,

Hope all is well. Thanks for sharing the images. Looks like you have indeed spoted an asteroid. One method used to properly identify a specific target is to resolve it using astrometry software. Astrometrica and Tycho are both able to do this.

By checking Minor Planet Center you're definitely on the right path!
Let me know if you want assistance resolving it.

Happy to help.

Thanks,
Will
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Old 29-05-2021, 01:27 PM
gary
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Hi David,

Neat stuff.

Did you ever find an identification?

Did you try the MPC form here for known Minor Planet Identification?
https://cgi.minorplanetcenter.net/cgi-bin/checkmp.cgi

I did a quick check and inputting your date/time/RA/Dec on that page
provided this (column formatting lost in the copy so screenshot image
also below) :-
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPC
The following objects, brighter than V = 30.0, were found in the 5.0-arcminute region around R.A. = 12 32 42.000, Decl. = +12 46 36.00 (J2000.0) on 2021 04 08.53 UT:

Object designation R.A. Decl. V Offsets Motion/hr Orbit Further observations?
h m s į ' " R.A. Decl. Mot. PA Comment (Elong/Decl/V at date 1)

2017 HF65 12 32 55.4 +12 45 21 21.8 3.3E 1.3S 32.3 284.4 4o Very desirable between 2021 May 29-June 28. (110.4,+11.0,22.6)
That is 209 arcseconds away from your coordinates but the MPC form
only permitted entry of the time to the nearest 0.01 fraction of a day -
14.4 minutes.

The form says 2017 HF65 is moving at 32.3 arcseconds/hour so it still doesn't quite fit with yours.

Are your estimated coordinates with respect J2000?

Good luck!
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Old 29-05-2021, 02:19 PM
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tonybarry (Tony)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJT View Post
Hi Tony, details here

Imaged using an EQ Mount

["DATE-OBS", "\'2021-04-08T12:40:36\'", "YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:ss observation start, UT"],

["OBJECT", "\'IC3475 \'", ""], // row 30
["OBJCTRA", "\'12 32 42.000\'", "Right ascension (hours) (compatibility)"],
["OBJCTDEC", "\'+12 46 36.00\'", "Declination (deg) (compatibility)"],

300 second exposures
Hi David,

I can't find your fine field of view. You show three images of the putative asteroid as it moves across the sky plane, but where is that in the larger field ?

Sky Safari lists three asteroids in the immediate vicinity of IC3475 at the time of your image:
(691) Lehigh
(3082) Dzhalil
(493480) 2014 YZ49

Image attached.

Regards,
Tony Barry
WSAAG
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Old 30-05-2021, 12:47 PM
DJT (David)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybarry View Post
Hi David,

I can't find your fine field of view. You show three images of the putative asteroid as it moves across the sky plane, but where is that in the larger field ?

Sky Safari lists three asteroids in the immediate vicinity of IC3475 at the time of your image:
(691) Lehigh
(3082) Dzhalil
(493480) 2014 YZ49

Image attached.

Regards,
Tony Barry
WSAAG
Hi Tony, Thanks for looking into this. I did a plate solve in Pixinsight which solved the centre and the corners of the image. The Object is as far into the top right corner of the wider field of view as you can get and I have added the screen shot for info.
I just tried the Minor planet site and the form linked to by Gary but no matches found. I attached a screenshot of the form with the details of the query entered




Quote:
Originally Posted by gary View Post
Hi David,

Neat stuff.

Did you ever find an identification?

Did you try the MPC form here for known Minor Planet Identification?
https://cgi.minorplanetcenter.net/cgi-bin/checkmp.cgi

I did a quick check and inputting your date/time/RA/Dec on that page
provided this (column formatting lost in the copy so screenshot image
also below) :-


That is 209 arcseconds away from your coordinates but the MPC form
only permitted entry of the time to the nearest 0.01 fraction of a day -
14.4 minutes.

The form says 2017 HF65 is moving at 32.3 arcseconds/hour so it still doesn't quite fit with yours.

Are your estimated coordinates with respect J2000?

Good luck!
Thanks Gary. Work took over for a few days but back on this. I couldn't get anything like your response from the MPC form. Its possible I am using the wrong parameters. I have attached a screenshot of the form. The response was basically nothing was found though I used the latest plate solve from PI which I think are J2000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by srmnm View Post
Hi DJT,

Hope all is well. Thanks for sharing the images. Looks like you have indeed spoted an asteroid. One method used to properly identify a specific target is to resolve it using astrometry software. Astrometrica and Tycho are both able to do this.

By checking Minor Planet Center you're definitely on the right path!
Let me know if you want assistance resolving it.

Happy to help.

Thanks,
Will
Hi Will . Thanks for this. I will download the Astrometrica software this week and see what's there. Currently on my iOS machine.

Its a really interesting exercise and with everyones help I am learning heaps.
Whats interesting is that it feels like something an astrophotographer could just "do" as part of processing as the data is there, just needs a few minutes to subtract one light from another and visually scan it for candidates.

Of course the rate of discovery has increased exponentially with the automated surveys that have come online over the last couple of decades but still, an interesting exercise.
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Click for full-size image (Screen Shot 2021-05-30 at 12.17.23 pm.png)
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  #9  
Old 30-05-2021, 02:34 PM
gary
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Hi David,

In your earlier post you provided this date/time and coordinates :-

Quote:
["DATE-OBS", "\'2021-04-08T12:40:36\'", "YYYY-MM-DDThh:mm:ss observation start, UT"],

["OBJECT", "\'IC3475 \'", ""], // row 30
["OBJCTRA", "\'12 32 42.000\'", "Right ascension (hours) (compatibility)"],
["OBJCTDEC", "\'+12 46 36.00\'", "Declination (deg) (compatibility)"],
But in your screenshot of the MPC form, you entered the day/fraction day
as 08.09 rather than 08.53 and your RA/Dec coordinates are very different
between the two

Are you sure about your time? A fractional day of 0.09 is 02:09 UT
but your target acquisition time was 12:40:36 UT which is a fractional day of 0.53.

Now the coordinates of IC 3472 are 12:32:40.985 +12:46:13.94
which are very close to the coordinates you posted so I gather they
were for the original target, IC 3472, rather than the unknown moving
body.

So I gather we should be using the data that was in the screenshot
of the MPC page.
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Old 30-05-2021, 02:43 PM
gary
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Using the day/time as 08.53, there is this candidate :-
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  #11  
Old 31-05-2021, 07:54 PM
DJT (David)
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Hi Gary

Sorry for the late reply.

Thanks very much for digging this out. Looks like itís a good match. I took a look in sky safari and it runs very close though itís IC3475, not IC3472 which might explain the variance you found.(The time entry I made was definitely spurious and have now learnt a bit more about UTC so thanks).

I will give the other software options a go this week to help me on my learning curve and hopefully match that to what you found ( I do like a good bit of reverse engineering)

David
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