Quality brand 10" dobs $299 brand new!

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

There is already a thread about this in the "Equipment Discussion" area but I thought this may have big impact for someone just looking at buying their first scope, so I've written this for the beginners here. I've tried to include some helpful information but if anything here is unclear please ask questions and we'll do our best to explain.

Andrew's Communications, one of the dealers that many of us (myself included) have purchased scopes and/or accessories from, have some almost unbelievable prices on the GSO brand of Dobs at present.
(add postage costs to all these costs of course)

You can get a 6" dob starting at $249 - great price, but not "news"...

You can get an 8" dob starting at $299, even better price, also not news...

You can get a 10" dob starting at $299!!!!! DEFINITELY NEWS!!

Refer to this page on their website, scroll down to the dobs (about 1/3 of the way down).

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

10" dob with Rack & Pinion Focuser, 8x50 straight-through finder and 2 eyepieces ... $299

10" dob with Crayford focuser (better than Rack & Pinion), 8x50 right angle finder, mirror cooling fan, and 2 eyepieces ... $399

10" dob with 10:1 Crayford focuser (much better fine focus control), 8x50 right angle finder, mirror cooling fan, and 5 eyepieces ... $499

(12" dob with Crayford for $599 !!!!)

I have no affiliation with GSO scopes, Andrews Comms (apart from being an occasional customer) nor any other personal interest in these other than the burning desire to buy another dob!!!!!

Exactly 2 years ago this week, when I bought my 10" dob from Andrews, I paid either $649 or $699 (memory fades...) for the Crayford version which was a great price even then! You can now get it for $399. Cripes!

If I was a newbie again now I'd possibly buy the "$299" version, then buy the separate 10:1 Crayford focuser for $119 (further down, same page) and mount it up myself (4 small screws), price $418.

(For the $499 you get the right angle finder instead, and the fan, plus 3 extra eyepieces, which is a brilliant deal, however for $418 you can still have a great scope package if money is tight.)

The 10:1 Crayford focuser (if you buy it separately) is only made to fit on an 8" scope, so the curvature machined into it's base is "too curved" to fit "flat" on a 10" or 12" tube, however I had one mounted on my 10" ok. It screwed on securely with the top and bottom edges tight against the tube, and I used some blutack to "fill" the curve gap and prevent any stray light getting in sidewise.

If you buy the scope with the 10:1 already fitted it fits the scope body precisely!

I hope someone finds this useful.... Cheers!

[CoombellKid]

Certainly some great deals there, it's a credit to Lee. Yup you could pay
more from the other Sydney retailer. But what you get extra I dont believe
it's worth it. To pay an extra <$200.00 more for someone to look down it
and say yup thats a mirror and it doesn't have scratches... and oh yeah
here are some more cheap and crappy EP's and a bunch of colour filters
(you'll use about, once) to make you feel better.

On ya Lee

regards,CS

[Argonavis (William)]

It is hard to believe that the price difference between a 6 inch, 8 inch and a 10 inch is so small. Traditionally the cost of the mirror was the most expensive part of the scope. Now it seems that GSO can churn out 6, 8 or 10 inch optics for much the same price.

The prices for these are truly amazing.

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

I'm assuming that these amazing prices on the 10" dobs are somehow a "stock issue" or an importing "numbers game", as opposed to a reflection on the actual manufacturing cost. Keep in mind that the $249 6" comes with a R&P focuser, compare that with $399 for a 10" with Crayford.


I must admit I'm stuffed if I know how Lee can sell them at that price, I'm just mighty pleased to hear he is.

These prices almost certainly won't last, the stock definitely won't so for anyone considering this I'd grab the phone number off the website (they don't do internet trade or list an email address) and ring them at opening time tomorrow morning!

I just wish I had a few hundred bucks spare on my credit card right now, I'd have a set of 10" binoculars quicker than you could say "collimate"!

(... but no, I had to be sensible and have my brake pads replaced, discs machined, LPG convertor replaced, engine tuned, etc, etc. See what you get for doing the right thing??)

[PhilW]

Originally Posted by Gargoyle_Steve

I just wish I had a few hundred bucks spare on my credit card right now, I'd have a set of 10" binoculars quicker than you could say "collimate"!

This is an excellent idea. I made my binoscope from recycled GSO 10" dob bits. The mirrors were almost identical focal lengths. But I paid $400 for the second mirror on its own. So with this deal, you could get both donor dobs for $600.

Here's another thought: get one, toss out the tube & the base in the next hard rubbish collection, and turn the optics into an ultra-compact travel scope.

Phil

[jjjnettie (Jeanette)]

You beat me to it Steve.
10" Binoscope.....Hmmm
How badly do I need that concrete slab for the dome?

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by CoombellKid

To pay an extra <$200.00 more for someone to look down it
and say yup thats a mirror and it doesn't have scratches... and oh yeah
here are some more cheap and crappy EP's and a bunch of colour filters
(you'll use about, once) to make you feel better.

Thats a complete cynical misreperesentation of what Bintel do. These scopes often come out of the crate way out of whack. Bintel have very experienced guy on staff to collimate and check each instrument and make what ever adjustments and minor mods to make sure the intrsument functions properly.

There are thousands upon thousands of Chinese Dobs purchased in the Australian market. A large number are owned by people who will never have contact with other astronomers or frequent forums. From the sample I have encountered by chance some of them have both mirrors way out of whack and will probably never give good images, as the owners will never bother to olearn how to collimate them properly.. A scope check before sale is the only chance many of these instruments may have to deliver what they are capable of . I think its a fantastic service.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Gargoyle_Steve

There is already a thread about this in the "Equipment Discussion" area but I thought this may have big impact for someone just looking at buying their first scope, so I've written this for the beginners here. I've tried to include some helpful information but if anything here is unclear please ask questions and we'll do our best to explain.

Andrew's Communications, one of the dealers that many of us (myself included) have purchased scopes and/or accessories from, have some almost unbelievable prices on the GSO brand of Dobs at present.
(add postage costs to all these costs of course)

You can get a 6" dob starting at $249 - great price, but not "news"...

You can get an 8" dob starting at $299, even better price, also not news...

You can get a 10" dob starting at $299!!!!! DEFINITELY NEWS!!

Refer to this page on their website, scroll down to the dobs (about 1/3 of the way down).

http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-section-10.htm

10" dob with Rack & Pinion Focuser, 8x50 straight-through finder and 2 eyepieces ... $299

10" dob with Crayford focuser (better than Rack & Pinion), 8x50 right angle finder, mirror cooling fan, and 2 eyepieces ... $399

10" dob with 10:1 Crayford focuser (much better fine focus control), 8x50 right angle finder, mirror cooling fan, and 5 eyepieces ... $499

(12" dob with Crayford for $599 !!!!)

I have no affiliation with GSO scopes, Andrews Comms (apart from being an occasional customer) nor any other personal interest in these other than the burning desire to buy another dob!!!!!

Exactly 2 years ago this week, when I bought my 10" dob from Andrews, I paid either $649 or $699 (memory fades...) for the Crayford version which was a great price even then! You can now get it for $399. Cripes!

If I was a newbie again now I'd possibly buy the "$299" version, then buy the separate 10:1 Crayford focuser for $119 (further down, same page) and mount it up myself (4 small screws), price $418.

(For the $499 you get the right angle finder instead, and the fan, plus 3 extra eyepieces, which is a brilliant deal, however for $418 you can still have a great scope package if money is tight.)

The 10:1 Crayford focuser (if you buy it separately) is only made to fit on an 8" scope, so the curvature machined into it's base is "too curved" to fit "flat" on a 10" or 12" tube, however I had one mounted on my 10" ok. It screwed on securely with the top and bottom edges tight against the tube, and I used some blutack to "fill" the curve gap and prevent any stray light getting in sidewise.

If you buy the scope with the 10:1 already fitted it fits the scope body precisely!

I hope someone finds this useful.... Cheers!

Perhaps they are so cheap because they have superbasic mirror cells (made from particle board) , have only cheap and nasty particle board in the rockerbox and base (these are flat packs aren't they) rather than bathroom , laundry and kitchen grade moisture resistant MDF, and maybe the glass is just soda glass and unannealed.

10" binos , if you can get two mirrors with exactly the same focal length would be a great project , and cheap based on the prices bandied about.

I wonder how good the figures on the mirrors are ? 1/2wave maybe ?? 1/4 wave ?? , 1/8 wave ?? There is no mention .

[JethroB76 (Jeff)]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Perhaps they are so cheap because they have superbasic mirror cells (made from particle board) , have only cheap and nasty particle board in the rockerbox and base (these are flat packs aren't they) rather than bathroom , laundry and kitchen grade moisture resistant MDF, and maybe the glass is just soda glass and unannealed.

Are you saying that they are cheaper because they are inferior to the scopes normally stocked by Andrews, Bintel et al...particle board mirror cells?

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

These are GSO dobs which are rated at 1/12th wave PV surface, which is 1/6th wave at the wavefront. Of course those figures actually tell you very little about the quality of the mirror. However, I have looked through a few dozen and own one myself. Optically they are quite good and some are excellent. But as Mark says sometimes they need some "fine tuning" to deliver the images they are capable of, which is often beyond an inexperienced observer. They are certainly not junk and better telescopes than what $2,000 would buy you 10 years ago and that was a dayyam lot of money back then. They have a very good cast aluminium mirror cell.

Cheers,
John B

[Ian Robinson]

Well , if that is right , beats me how they can be so cheap , GSO must be using very cheap labour or someone is selling at a loss.

I'm guessing he brought a container full of them into Australia and hopes to flood the local market with them.

At that kind of price , any local mirror manufacturers have no hope of surviving.

[Satchmo]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

At that kind of price , any local mirror manufacturers have no hope of surviving.

* There are still people out there who have a lot of respect for what a premium 10" Newtonian is capable of and want to build up a superb telescope with custom selected parts and not a 'lucky dip' cheap mirror with no optical guarantee. This end of the market has been and will always be there so long as there are people who care most about quality than cheap price.

* Any local manufacturer depending on their survival for 10" mirrors would have to be just plain stupid... cheap 10" is now entry level aperture and in huge demand in disposable society. To try and compete in any way at that price point with masses of optical workers in China getting payed $1 an hour to rub mediochre quality glass, would be equally stupid.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by Satchmo

* There are still people out there who have a lot of respect for what a premium 10" Newtonian is capable of and want to build up a superb telescope with custom selected parts and not a 'lucky dip' cheap mirror with no optical guarantee. This end of the market has been and will always be there so long as there are people who care most about quality than cheap price.

* Any local manufacturer depending on their survival for 10" mirrors would have to be just plain stupid... cheap 10" is now entry level aperture and in huge demand in disposable society. To try and compete in any way at that price point with masses of optical workers in China getting payed $1 an hour to rub mediochre quality glass, would be equally stupid.

I happen to think quality optics , and the best quality gear I can lay my hands on is worth having , even if it costs me more.

Buying cheap astro and photo gear , is in my opinion a false economy.

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

Yikes

and to think what I paid for a 10 inch dob only what seems to be a short time ago

but notwithstanding that its all good.

10 inch dob at this price-surely should bring more people into the hobby

[Satchmo]

Agreed. The local mirror `industry' ( and it is hardly big enough to call an industry ) has always been based on supplying larger apertures and relatively unaffected by the poliferation of budget dobs. I've always seen budget medium aperture dobs as a great start to a hobby which will lead some towards building or buying much larger telescopes.

[Ian Robinson]

Originally Posted by seeker372011

Yikes

and to think what I paid for a 10 inch dob only what seems to be a short time ago

but notwithstanding that its all good.

10 inch dob at this price-surely should bring more people into the hobby

Certainly better than the junk that Tasco puts out there. Unfortunately , Tasco junk is everywhere .

[prova]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Certainly better than the junk that Tasco puts out there. Unfortunately , Tasco junk is everywhere .

Tasco as in the Skywatcher range?

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Certainly better than the junk that Tasco puts out there. Unfortunately , Tasco junk is everywhere .

That hasn't always been the case. Historically going back to the 1970's, 80's and up to the mid 90's, "SOME" Tasco products were very good indeed. Quite a few of their refractors, binoculars and riflescopes were made by Towa Optical in Japan and Vixen Optical in Japan. The products from those manufacturers are first rate. Of course they also distributed products from other manufacturers during those years which were not first rate and ultimately led to TASCO earning a sometimes less than favourable reputation amongst consumers. If you know what you're looking for, you can actually find a TASCO bargain on the 2nd hand market and get a very good product.

Cheers,
John B

[Gargoyle_Steve (Steve)]

Given the questions raised re build quality of these GSO dobs I'll also point out that the Andrew's site also now specifies that as of sales from 1/4/08 onwards ALL GSO dobs are covered by a 3 year, factory backed warranty.

When I bought my first GSO dob 2 years ago I think it had a 12 month warranty. (My 12" GSO was purchased 2nd hand so no warranty, but I never looked like needing it on either of them.)

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Originally Posted by Ian Robinson

Well , if that is right , beats me how they can be so cheap , GSO must be using very cheap labour or someone is selling at a loss.

Cheap labor is exactly it. Years ago Japan had lots of cheap unskilled labor. Then they had cheap skilled labor. Now they have expensive skilled labor. Fair enough.

China is following suit. They now have cheap skilled labor. We should enjoy it while we can. Eventually we will have to pay what the products are worth.

Some may say buying gear at these 'underrate' prices is exploitation and I can see their point. However if the scopes didn't sell the workers would lose any bargaining power they have and so never progress. There should be a better way but, alas, not in the word we live in.