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  #41  
Old 17-06-2021, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by gary View Post
In breaking news, The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) panel is now putting forth the recommendation to the federal
government that the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine should now be given only to people over the age of 60.

At time of writing, the federal government is yet to accept the recommendation.

Story here :-
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-...cine/100222464

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...17-p581t3.html
Thanks for sharing that Gary,

That seems like a reasonable thing to do, even though it puts a huge strain on vaccine supply. Even without any vaccine related effects, the incidence of blood clots / thrombosis and strokes etc.. increase significantly with age, so it seems like a reasonable thing to do, to not add to the risk further with any AZ vaccine related blood clots. Further to that and irrespective of age group, the AZ vax is currently not recommended in patients who have had certain types of strokes CVST, etc. (In such cases an exemption can be had to get the Pfizer vax even if over 50 years of age).

Like anything the Pfizer vax is also not perfect with some potentially serious although rare effects recently coming to light, such as heart inflammation.

Best
JA

Last edited by JA; 17-06-2021 at 04:10 PM.
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  #42  
Old 17-06-2021, 01:33 PM
glend (Glen)
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Originally Posted by JA View Post
That seems like a reasonable thing to do, even though it puts a huge strain on vaccine supply. Even without any vaccine related effects, the incidence of blood clots / thrombosis and strokes etc.. increase significantly with age, so it seems like a reasonable thing to do, to not add to the risk further with any AZ vaccine related blood clots. Further to that and irrespective of age group, the AZ vax is currently not recommended in patients who have had certain types of strokes CVST, etc. (In such cases an exemption can be had to get the Pfizer vax even if over 50 years of age).

Like anything the Pfizer vax is also not perfect with some potentially serious although rare effects recently coming to light, such as heart inflammation.

Best
JA
I believe the Pfizer heart inflammation concern relates to younger people, like around 16 yo.
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  #43  
Old 17-06-2021, 01:51 PM
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I believe the Pfizer heart inflammation concern relates to younger people, like around 16 yo.
Hi Glen

and yes it's certainly true that the studies relate to younger folk, but the conditions seen there like heart muscle and pericardial inflammation are also seen in the older population even without any potential vaccine related effects. So in patients, more prevalently older folk, who have already suffered from such conditions without even having had the vaccine, it may not be a great idea to potentially poke the bear further with the Pfizer vaccine.

Who's to say? - it's all about which is the better risk based on the best data and advice.

Best
JA
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  #44  
Old 17-06-2021, 03:35 PM
glend (Glen)
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It seems to me that there is far too much concern about the potential life threatening side effects, for certain folks. I simple blood test can determine if you have the concerning platelet issue, so why not find out before you go in for the vaccine? If you have ever had a blood test where the results were sent to your GP, they would already know.
Statistically speaking the odds are very low, you are probably more likely to be hit by lightening, or die in a plane crash, but people do not panic about those risks.

Give people reason to panic and some will. The noise from this whole discussion just feeds the paranoia, and gives more people a reason to reject the common health sense of just getting vaccinated. I am prepared to believe that the anti-vax lunatics are fostering the paranoia.
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  #45  
Old 17-06-2021, 03:47 PM
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It seems to me that there is far too much concern about the potential life threatening side effects, for certain folks. I simple blood test can determine if you have the concerning platelet issue, so why not find out before you go in for the vaccine? If you have ever had a blood test where the results were sent to your GP, they would already know.
Past test results or blood test just before getting the AZ vaccine will only show whether you have previously or currently have thrombocytopenia not whether you will develop it as a result of some sort of thrombolytic reaction to the vaccine or your own antibodies and go on to the full TTS and other reactions/syndromes. The AZ for example is not recommended even for over 50 year olds with certain conditions: certain types of strokes, allergies, other thromboses, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by glend View Post
Give people reason to panic and some will. The noise from this whole discussion just feeds the paranoia, and gives more people a reason to reject the common health sense of just getting vaccinated. I am prepared to believe that the anti-vax lunatics are fostering the paranoia.
Long story short : From a heath risk management perspective, I think it's good to get the vaccine. It's just a question of availability of the one you want.

Best
JA

Last edited by JA; 17-06-2021 at 04:08 PM.
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  #46  
Old 17-06-2021, 06:47 PM
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Ok now they recommend the pfizer jab for those up to 60 instead of 50
I was booked in for AZ this coming Wednesday, now gonna have to ring and ask what to do.
I wasn't overly keen for AZ
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  #47  
Old 17-06-2021, 08:06 PM
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The bottom line is, if you have never had doubts about getting a flu vaccine, you shouldn’t with either of these vaccines either.

While there are some well publicised side effects, they are very rare…when compared to the risk of complications from actually hosting the virus, the full extent of which we will only begin to understand in the years to come as we treat more “long COVID” patients.

Of course it is tragic for the families of those that have suffered the extremes of these rare events, it has to be kept in perspective, and currently we’re building an increasingly robust means of treating those affecting the majority of those that develop a reaction.

Nobody seems to be bothered by the risk of anaphylaxis, but then that hasn’t been widely blown out of proportion.

The media have a lot to answer for.
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  #48  
Old 17-06-2021, 09:00 PM
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multiweb (Marc)
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Nobody seems to be bothered by the risk of anaphylaxis, but then that hasnít been widely blown out of proportion.
So true. Fluvax side effects have never been a media beat-up either. And the fact that even vaccinated people still catch the flu but fare better.
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  #49  
Old 20-06-2021, 10:44 AM
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Iam not a anti vax person but iam very weary of something that might make me feel worse than iam normally there is a lot more side effects than just blood clots dozens to be excact the english assoc of the tga has now recommended that vaccinations should be stopped
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  #50  
Old 20-06-2021, 11:26 AM
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All said and done no one yet knows the long term effects and efficiencies or these vaccines.
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  #51  
Old 20-06-2021, 11:48 AM
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All said and done no one yet knows the long term effects and efficiencies or these vaccines.
I am not sure about that, under the same assumption case we wouldn't know the long term effects of the virus itself. But it happens that we do know the long terms effects based on the science.

There may be some underlying effects mostly efficiencies with everything we do in our life, but I am happy to say that over the generation lifetime expectancy has increased overall and that is a promising sign of our medical understanding.
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  #52  
Old 20-06-2021, 11:52 AM
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Thats so true true Trevor today at a press conferance nsw health said still wear masks and that you can still catch covid and spread it even if you have had the vaccine as you said no yet knows the long term effects and efficiencies of the vaccines after all we are only human
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  #53  
Old 20-06-2021, 01:50 PM
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You guys talk about these vaccines like we've never done this before

The Oxford-AZ vaccine was produced rapidly because (as with the UQ effort), a lot of the research had already been done during the original SARS and MERS events, and they also employed a vaccine vector commonly used for flu vaccines...in layman's terms, it was comparable to a cut-and-paste. That doesn't make them any less effective, it is well trodden ground, and this strategy has been working out pretty well for us these past few decades.

The mRNA vaccines are new in this case only in the scale of their deployment. mRNA technology has been around for a while now, we just didn't have a global pandemic handy to make it cost effective to deploy on a large scale. These leverage our body's existing protein factory to produce small quantities of a protein from a template we provide (the mRNA), that was designed to resemble the spike protein that has proven so effective at getting the virus into our cells. This then provokes an immune response that generates antibodies that then persist to fend of a "real" infection. It's akin to learning the words to a song so that you can sing along at a concert.

So, yes, we do have a grasp of how effective these vaccines are and what the risks are. Show a little respect for the efforts of the scientists that have worked tirelessly for the past 18 months trying to keep us safe, not to mention the millions that have lost their lives (and continue to do so) before these become more widely available.

Anyone believing that side-effects are the exception not the rule, then I recommend you do your research... start with biology and chemistry and let me know when you understand clinical trials Over the counter medicines such ibuprofen and paracetamol have their fair share of side-effects, heck even water consumption has side-effects.

If anyone is seriously curious enough for more information, then feel free to PM me...I have some experience with this kind of stuff

(Note if you PM: "viewpoints" will be ignored, only scientific evidence will be discussed)
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  #54  
Old 20-06-2021, 02:59 PM
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https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/cli...fizer-covid-va
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  #55  
Old 20-06-2021, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by alan meehan View Post
Thats so true true Trevor today at a press conferance nsw health said still wear masks and that you can still catch covid and spread it even if you have had the vaccine as you said no yet knows the long term effects and efficiencies of the vaccines after all we are only human

Until we have 70% vaccination and that means fully vaccinated then yes masks are still necessary as we have not achieved herd immunity. You may get covid if vaccinated but it will be no worse than a common cold rather than either being hospitalised or have long term effects. Until your body achieves full immunity which is WEEKs after the second jab (astra or pfizer) you are still a vector for spreading and shedding the virus even if you don't get anything. Hence the reason for wearing the mask. when we reach herd immunity then we can return to normal (probably get boosters every year much like the flu jab but as vaccines get better maybe even less)
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  #56  
Old 20-06-2021, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Camelopardalis View Post
You guys talk about these vaccines like we've never done this before

The Oxford-AZ vaccine was produced rapidly because (as with the UQ effort), a lot of the research had already been done during the original SARS and MERS events, and they also employed a vaccine vector commonly used for flu vaccines...in layman's terms, it was comparable to a cut-and-paste. That doesn't make them any less effective, it is well trodden ground, and this strategy has been working out pretty well for us these past few decades.

The mRNA vaccines are new in this case only in the scale of their deployment. mRNA technology has been around for a while now, we just didn't have a global pandemic handy to make it cost effective to deploy on a large scale. These leverage our body's existing protein factory to produce small quantities of a protein from a template we provide (the mRNA), that was designed to resemble the spike protein that has proven so effective at getting the virus into our cells. This then provokes an immune response that generates antibodies that then persist to fend of a "real" infection. It's akin to learning the words to a song so that you can sing along at a concert.

So, yes, we do have a grasp of how effective these vaccines are and what the risks are. Show a little respect for the efforts of the scientists that have worked tirelessly for the past 18 months trying to keep us safe, not to mention the millions that have lost their lives (and continue to do so) before these become more widely available.

Anyone believing that side-effects are the exception not the rule, then I recommend you do your research... start with biology and chemistry and let me know when you understand clinical trials Over the counter medicines such ibuprofen and paracetamol have their fair share of side-effects, heck even water consumption has side-effects.

If anyone is seriously curious enough for more information, then feel free to PM me...I have some experience with this kind of stuff

(Note if you PM: "viewpoints" will be ignored, only scientific evidence will be discussed)
At last ........ some common sense !

Quote .. "Common sense is so rare these days, it should be classified as a Super Power"
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  #57  
Old 20-06-2021, 04:29 PM
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Hey fellow lab rats apparently Victoria has developed and will make Australia's first local mRNA COVID-19 vaccine to be ready for clinical trials by the end of the year.
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  #58  
Old 20-06-2021, 05:27 PM
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Do these vaccines actually work as intended. Check this report from the ABC.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-...ovid/100223636

More than 350 Indonesian doctors and healthcare workers have contracted COVID-19 despite being vaccinated with Sinovac, with dozens being hospitalised, Reuters reported.

Maybe its because they used the Sinovac innoculation which is only 77% effective.
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  #59  
Old 20-06-2021, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by billdan View Post
Do these vaccines actually work as intended. Check this report from the ABC.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-...ovid/100223636

More than 350 Indonesian doctors and healthcare workers have contracted COVID-19 despite being vaccinated with Sinovac, with dozens being hospitalised, Reuters reported.

Maybe its because they used the Sinovac innoculation which is only 77% effective.
Sinovac is even less effective than that, the Chinese claim it is 77% effective but those numbers are as reliable as the Chinese saying covid came from Italy
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