ICEINSPACE
Moon Phase
CURRENT MOON
Waning Gibbous 82.5%
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11-06-2020, 04:45 PM
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Don't have a cow, Man!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,105
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ZWO Camera Conflicts
I have been trying to help my brother get his setup working properly. He is using an older style desktop with Windows 10 and we have most everything sorted but the guide camera and the guiding.
One of the issues seems to be conflicts with the ZWO drivers and which camera to choose in which software. We have even tried the ZWO Ascom fore the guide cam and the native ZWO driver for the imaging camera. The cameras are an ASI1600 mono and I think an ASI120(like a QHY5) guide cam.
The other issue is getting the guide cam to work reliably and consistantly in PHD. At the moment, if we get it to connect, it may work for 5 minutes then just give a white screen or it may go straight into a white screen, no adjustment stops it and brings it back. Sometimes even rebooting will not make it work.
Would love to know if anyone else has/had this issue and possible remedies? We have tried pretty much everything we can think of so any suggestions would be appreciated.
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11-06-2020, 04:56 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canberra, AUS
Posts: 593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
I have been trying to help my brother get his setup working properly. He is using an older style desktop with Windows 10 and we have most everything sorted but the guide camera and the guiding.
One of the issues seems to be conflicts with the ZWO drivers and which camera to choose in which software. We have even tried the ZWO Ascom fore the guide cam and the native ZWO driver for the imaging camera. The cameras are an ASI1600 mono and I think an ASI120(like a QHY5) guide cam.
The other issue is getting the guide cam to work reliably and consistantly in PHD. At the moment, if we get it to connect, it may work for 5 minutes then just give a white screen or it may go straight into a white screen, no adjustment stops it and brings it back. Sometimes even rebooting will not make it work.
Would love to know if anyone else has/had this issue and possible remedies? We have tried pretty much everything we can think of so any suggestions would be appreciated.
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Yep, going through exactly the same thing now. Have just refreshed my drivers, waiting for a clearish night to test it. Its a bummer, being so closr and thishurdle will not relent!
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11-06-2020, 10:24 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17,997
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Well I would certainly want to find out how this works out. I sometimes use a ZWOASI183mm and was thinking of getting an ASI290 mini guider.
I run my 183mm using the Sky X X2 ZWO driver from the ZWO site. What program are you using to run the camera?
Greg.
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11-06-2020, 11:33 PM
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Want to do better
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Kojonup Western Australia
Posts: 460
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Zwo 0k
Bart
For what it is worth, I have used a ZO120mm as my guide camera for a couple of years with no problems. But my computing environment is different.
An old Lenovo laptop Win 7 pro 64 bit and guiding with PHD2. Sharpcap also has no camera problems with this set up. The guiding setup is demanding on the camera as it is off axis at a focal length of 2415mm.
Just a set up that works
Cheers
Chris
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12-06-2020, 12:04 AM
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Unregistered User
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 1,164
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You could try running ASI120 without connecting the ASI1600 and see if you can get it to work first.
Also which version of ASI120? The original ASI120 had issues with random "broken images", just google "ASI120 split frames". From memory the issues were present on anything newer than Win7. If I remember correctly ZWO even recommended not using those cameras for guiding. The newer -S version does not have those problems.
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12-06-2020, 09:02 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 1,909
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I had the old 120mm for guiding and it was a pain. Very sensitive to everything. Worked better from a USB hub and requires perfect focus to see anything so I think speed of transfer is an issue. I could not see the stars it was guiding with on the screen often but you could see it was working.
The newer Asi120mms I have now is much better. Some software seems to randomly go into weird exposure mode with looping on ASI cameras. Setting the exposure exactly for looping seems critical.
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12-06-2020, 10:46 AM
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Don't have a cow, Man!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,105
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It sounds like a pain in the A...tribute.
He only purchased it recently, as little as a few months ago, from Bintel, I think. Where does that put it for the split frame issue?
He is ready to chuck in the towel and I'm trying to convince him to let me have a play with it over the next full moon cycle so I have something big and bright to work with using the oag to check focus and operation.
He also has a QHY5 that gives a white screen in PHD although that has never had the USB speed set in ezycap as per QHY suggestions and we seem not to be able to reach focus with it when we do get it working.
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12-06-2020, 12:54 PM
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Drifting from the pole
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 5,458
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The first ZWO cam I bought was a 224. Then a 1600. Subsequently a 178, a 290 and now a 183. I often have 3 plugged in at a time (main imager, guide cam and all-sky cam)
In PHD you just select the camera from the drop-down menu after selecting ZWO Camera.
In other software, you just select the camera from the drop-down list in the ASCOM settings.
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12-06-2020, 01:19 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canberra, AUS
Posts: 593
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Yeah, there are enough people making it happen that there is something silly stopping it here. As I mentioned in my other thread, I can guide no worries in PHD with the 120mm mini, can image no worries with the 1600mm in APT but putting them together means the 1600 hangs up and will not transfer.
Adding to the insanity is that I can loop exposures on the 120 in phd while imaging with the 1600 in APT while I have them connected at my dinner table, but each time I've attached it to the scope, it has failed... bizarre.
If/when i get it sorted, I'll report back for sure. No way is throwing in the towel an option! Its going to be GREAT
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12-06-2020, 02:02 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kilmore, Australia
Posts: 3,347
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Jump in to the ZWO settings in the ASCOM driver, it might be worth a try reducing the USB utilisation limit on the 1600. I cant recall if you can do the same for the guide cameras but it you can, do that as well.
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12-06-2020, 02:11 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canberra, AUS
Posts: 593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_bluester
Jump in to the ZWO settings in the ASCOM driver, it might be worth a try reducing the USB utilisation limit on the 1600. I cant recall if you can do the same for the guide cameras but it you can, do that as well.
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Thats a promising-sounding piece of advice! Cheers!
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14-06-2020, 12:17 PM
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Don't have a cow, Man!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 1,105
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That sounds like a good tip.
How many are using the giude cam through the imaging camera, as opposed to a hub and who goes direct to computer?
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14-06-2020, 12:30 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kilmore, Australia
Posts: 3,347
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My focuser and guide cam are both through the hub on my ASI294 and have never given me any trouble since I put the lot on a USB3 port on a little faster machine than I used to have (About a year ago)
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14-06-2020, 01:02 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Sydney and South Coast NSW
Posts: 6,288
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Guide camera direct to laptop ( 5m USB3 cable )
No issues at all , connects and runs perfect every time
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14-06-2020, 01:41 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canberra, AUS
Posts: 593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart
How many are using the giude cam through the imaging camera, as opposed to a hub and who goes direct to computer?
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Have tried both Currently going direct, guide to PC.
Paul, I checked over both of the ASCOM drivers yesterday, both USB speeds are set to 40, which I gather is about as unobtrusive as they can be. I wonder if i should crank the 1600 up to let it beat out the guider and achieve transfer.
Tonight we finally have some clear skies and I'll give it a bit of a go.
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15-06-2020, 09:43 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 1,909
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I have had three asi cameras connected at the same time. Two imaging and one guiding and that worked ok.
It may be a dumb obvious question but is the correct camera being selected in PHD with the branched tab icon when connecting? You can accidentally have the imaging camera selected. And of course with the old 120 MM you want the USB speed to be slower.
Last edited by Sunfish; 15-06-2020 at 09:45 PM.
Reason: Spelling
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16-06-2020, 11:55 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canberra, AUS
Posts: 593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfish
It may be a dumb obvious question but is the correct camera being selected in PHD with the branched tab icon when connecting? You can accidentally have the imaging camera selected. And of course with the old 120 MM you want the USB speed to be slower.
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Not a dumb question at all, Ray! (or perhaps it is, but is right at my level, regardless )
I did end up grabbing a few successful 5mins guided subs the other night! I think it was at least partly down to selecting the camera with the branched tab.
Why hadn't I done that before... I had been switching the imaging camera in APT to the ZWO driver and using ASCOM camera 2 for the guider in PHD2, which was the correct camera assignment in the ASCOM profiles. This was failing. What worked was keeping the imager as ASCOM driven in APT and selecting ZWO camera in PHD2, THEN the branch to ensure the guider was the one it was using.
I'll crank the USB on the 1600 up to 50 just to give it an edge, too. Thanks for that tip!
I'm again waiting for good weather (Canberra has been hopeless for over a week now) to go through an entire sharpcap alignment, phd calibrate THEN image routine.
(sorry for the thread hijack, by the way... but hopefully this is helping us both/all)
Last edited by jahnpahwa; 16-06-2020 at 12:07 PM.
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17-06-2020, 08:23 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 1,909
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Good to hear someone is taming the zwo. It is not obvious and I have learned to hate little flashy icons. Give me a command line and a list of tasks any day.
In other systems the answer is to connect the guiding application and guiding camera first before connecting the imaging camera.
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17-06-2020, 08:53 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kilmore, Australia
Posts: 3,347
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Now that you mention it I recall having issues a couple of times when using APT in conflicts between the guider and imaging camera. I don't recall having the same trouble in SGP. The issue in APT is likely to have been finger trouble on my part, it was 18 months ago and I cant recall, but I can remember occasionally finding PHD trying to connect to the main imaging camera.
Do you need to manually start PHD2 using APT or does it open it for itself when you connect the equipment? I know SGP can be finicky if it does not open PHD for itself.
I have never had the issue using Voyager, firstly it uses the native ZWO driver for the imaging cam connection and second you do not open anything for yourself except for Voyager. You hit connect and it connects to the camera, opens PHD2 and connects the equipment, connects to the mount, opens and connects to your planetarium program if you use one etc.
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17-06-2020, 09:23 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Canberra, AUS
Posts: 593
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Yep, I've been connecting the guider first, focussing it using PHD2. When I start APT it connects to PHD2 automatically. Something I'm a bit wary of is then throwing sharpcap into the mix, too. I still polar align visually with the hand controller on the heq5pro, but i'd like to get away from that and perhaps leave the cameras in place between sessions.
Still all a bit unproven, though... still waiting on a decent sky to go through the whole process!
Maybe I'll take a look at voyager once I have the workflow locked down.... sounds dreamy!
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