Planetary Eye Piece Advice/Help

[SurferSmyth (Ryan)]

Hi Guys

I am looking to slowly grow my ep collection and iv decided to start off with a planetary ep maby a 6mm?

I just wanted some advice on what to look for, i have a 10'' dob and id like to attempt to get a good look at mars (maby polar caps) as well as just general viewing of Saturn Jupiter ect

preferably around the $200 to $300 mark unless that price range is inadequate for an a+ view of mars

Now before you say try before you buy, im intending on checking some out at astro fest in perth this weekend


is this even good at all?
http://www.bintel.com.au/Eyepieces-a...oductview.aspx

or do I ''have to'' saving every cent and getting a delos
http://www.bintel.com.au/Eyepieces-a...oductview.aspx

Thanks in advance - all reply's appreciated

[David Niven (David Niven)]

Hi Ryan,
Taking it slow is the right thing to do.
IMHO, quite a few of us end up as collector instead of user and eventually flop off their collection on the classified trade!
Also, you do not need expensive ep to enjoy the hobby.
Suggest you check out the TMB6, ES 6.7 and the Pentax XF8.5
My favorite is the ES 6.7 but the Tmb6 is so affordable.

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

The thing to remember is that the biggest single factor in getting clear views, especially of bright objects like planets, is the atmosphere. Higher power not only magnifies the object but also any turbulence or disturbance so really clear images can be fairly rare. So if you are thinking of spending a large amount of money, be sure that it is what you want to do.
I had a 6mm Delos for a while and it is a perfectly nice EP although I actually found the long eye relief a little disconterting and the exit pupil in my old 12" was quite small so you had quite a few blackouts. Cannot comment on the Orion as I have never used one.

Malcolm

[pw (Peter)]

I bought a 6mm Delos to get better detailed views of planets in my 8" dob, what I've found is that most times the seeing is not good enough to take advantage of it. I'm observing from an outer suburban backyard, from a rural and darker area I suspect it would be usable more often.

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

Hey Smyth,
I thought I would give Mars a go this morning at about 4.30am. I have never attempted to view Mars because of the unsociable hours it keeps. I just bought a pentax xw10 and a TV 2X barlow so I thought that this may be a good combo for this target in my 12" dob. This gave me 300x which was pushing it a bit but I tried with and without the barlow. In both cases, I could definately see the polar caps and some dark detail around the centre. The polar caps were hard to see, I think because the whole planet was very bright and you are looking for it being white at either end. a bit of contrast between the bulk of the planet and the southern cap was all I could see. Im not sure I even saw anything on the northern end, but I believe the northern cap to be significantly smaller than the southern. I thought I saw something but could have been good imagination. The brownish patching through the centre was particularly visible. And Orion neb was obscene!!!! All the wispy ends were curling up and I had to keep moving the scope to get it all in, wishing I had a xw30 instead Im very happy with this, especially after reading another post by astroron saying that the seeing was a bit average last night. Also clearly saw saturns cassini division and some darker colouring on the planet itself. Cant wait to get to a dark site and have a go with these new eyepieces. The xw10 is my first premium eyepiece so Im not an expert by any means. What I can tell you is that it is worth every cent. Everything about it says precision. Even the action when you twist the eyecup up and down is absolutely like butter. Perfectly made. Very very happy with this. That said, I did a lot of reading on what EP to choose and I knew I wanted an xw10, (particularly after one IISer who I cant remember proclaimed it as "probably the best 10mm EP ever produced") MattT is currently selling his xw collection on the classifieds but I would be quick if you want them. Otherwise, I just joined astromart in the US. Much more second hand gear goes through there than here due to population. It costs $15 to join but could get a bargain. I just bought a 16mm T2 Nagler there which hasnt arrived yet for $A200 posted. I also saw a T1 9mm Nagler there 2 days ago for $A107 posted. Although this is an older TV, apparently the optics are relatively unchanged over time. This would have been a bargain. My personal view when deciding on the xw was that I feel upgrading by a little bit at a time results in losing money on resell. If you do this several times on your way to getting something top shelf, youve lost money several times. Obviously budget dictates but that is my thought process these days.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Hi Smyth.
I will probably open a whole can of worms here , but here goes .
Over the last few months Peter ( StardrifterWA ), Simmo and myself have had the best run of weather ever and have been out most weekends using many different scopes , APO refractors 65 , 90 and 110mm , Achro refractor 127mm , Dobs 10-16 inch and SCT's 8 and 9.25 inch .
So between us we have a good selection of scopes .
On the eyepieces we have , between us , an Orthoscopic set , 6-25mm , TV radian set 3mm-18mm , TV Pans 19-35mm , TV naglers of all sizes and types , Delos's and Ethos's in all sizes .

One thing is emerging that's seen by us all is the best planetary eyepieces in this mix are the Orthoscopic's closely followed by the Radians .
It is becoming obvious to all 3 of us that in any given scope the Delos are NOT a good planetary eyepiece and for the money there are better planetary eyepieces out there .
These excel at looking at smaller star clusters and double stars at high magnifications , perfect for this .

We have been testing , observing Jupiter , Mars and Saturn for many , many hours over 3 months now and it really hit home this point last Saturday night at our dark sky site when the seeing conditions were essentially perfect and Simmo's 10 inch showed Mars as good as I have ever seen it , the orthoscopics's are the weapon of choice for planetary viewing sorry to say .

Its a shame that CircleT in japan have stopped producing them but there are still a few places making them , try a google .

Hope I have not offended any Delos owners here , but the fact is , is that all 3 of us came to this conclusion inderpendantly and until Peter mentioned it on Saturday night none of us wanted to admit it ( human nature ? ) .

Brian.

[ausastronomer (John Bambury)]

Hi Ryan,

Well I can only agree in part with Brian's comments above.

I agree that "good" orthos or other minimal glass eyepieces like Zeiss orthos, Astrophysics SPL, TMB Supermonos, Pentax XO's, Pentax XP, Pentax .965 SMC, Nikon .965, etc are unsurpassed as planetary eyepieces. Sitting just below them are other excellent minimal glass eyepieces like Brandons, Clave Plossls and Carl Zeiss Jena .965 orthos. The cheaper orthos like Baader, University Optics (both HD and volcano tops), and Circle T etc etc are excellent eyepieces, but not quite to the same level as the premium orthos.

While the differences in many cases are subtle and very marginal, in a good telescope under good conditions, a skilled observer can pick the difference between the "premium" orthos and premium widefields like Pentax XW's and TV Delos. However the premium widefields IME perform just as well as planetary eyepieces as the cheaper orthos like the Baaders and UO HD's and volcano tops. The major difference is that the long eye relief of Pentax XW's and Delos makes them more comfortable to use for long periods.

My current short focal length eyepiece collection consists of:-

5mm Pentax XW
5mm UO HD ortho
6mm UO HD ortho
6mm TV Delos
7mm Pentax XW
7mm UO HD ortho
8mm TV Radian
8.5mm Pentax XF
9mm UO HD ortho
10mm Pentax XW

I own 3 premium newtonians, a 10", a 14" and an 18" and through my association with 3RF Australia I have full access to 20", 25" and a 30" Newtonian.

I previously owned a 5mm Pentax XO, which I sold, as I preferred to use my 5mm Pentax XW based on its very close performance to the Pentax XO and increased eye relief and comfort. This made it much easier to use for extended observing sessions. What I find is that my most used eyepieces for planetary observation are my 5mm and 7mm Pentax XW's and the 8.5mm Pentax XF. While the 5mm Pentax XO slightly outperformed the 5mm Pentax XW the difference was very marginal. When you consider the eye relief and comfort factor I reached for the 5mm XW every time over the 5mm Pentax XO. I find that the on axis performance of the UO HD's is very close to my Pentax XW's (if not slightly inferior) with the edge of field performance in the orthos notably inferior. When you consider the eye relief and comfort factor the orthos don't get a look in. In fact, apart from a recent review I conducted they haven't come out of the case in quite a few years. I keep them for sentimental value only.

Knowing what I know and having used just about every premium and budget eyepiece made in the past 30 years (from Chinese Plossls to 12.5mm Docter {$1,000 each}) I would be jumping all over that 7mm Pentax XW advertised in the Icetrade Classifieds for $265 posted. I would jump on that cause it won't last long.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...d.php?t=118074

The 7mm Pentax XW will give you about 170X in your 10" Newtonian which is an ideal power.

Cheers,
John B

[Allan]

The Delos is about the best widefield, deep sky eyepiece you can buy, plus it performs very well on lunar and planets. So in that one eyepiece you cover all observing options very well. But as John and co explains, if you want to get serious about the planetary side of observing, then premium orthos will show more detail.

But, if you want a setup that shows you the most possible planetary detail in your telescope, you have to observe with a bino viewer. I have never seen more detail with a single eyepiece as I have in my BinoTron. The secret is that bino viewing is so easy and comfortable. It's like sitting there watching television. I think nothing of observing Jupiter for 3 hours straight, and the amount of fine detail you see over a long period as the seeing comes and goes is quite amazing. I don't have the energy to spend that amount of time observing one target in mono mode.

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

Hey Smyth,
Just checked in the classifieds. Only the 7mm xw remains. I wish I had the money. Good price

[PeterHA (Peter)]

I can support what Brian wrote about the Delos. I have Delos 3.5 and 6 and have in my pretty well corrected 4" Apo compared to a 3.6 Takahashi Hi-LE, the Takahashi was sharper on Jupiter compared to the Delos 3.5. I have now a TeleVue Nagler Zoom 3-6 on loan and will compare that to the Delos.
The Delos are great on fuzzies with their larger field and very ergonomic eye reliefe, we have split Sirius with the 3.5 under outstanding conditions but on Jupiter the 3.6 Takahashi was crisper.

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

or this

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=848686
this works out about $A110 for LVW's This one is no paypal but you may be able to work something out with him.

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

Disregard the lvw. They are nlv. Sorry, just realised

[MattT]

Yep totally agree with Brian and John. I'm selling the XW's to go Orthos…in Bino's and single with TV Barlows.

Both scopes are on tracking mounts which helps a lot in the narrow FOV.

Matt

[Allan]

Matt, no not the XW's.

Which orthos are you going to replace them with?

[glend (Glen)]

Allan does the Binotron really work well on the DOb? I was under the impression that focus could not be achieved due to focal length changes? Did you have it at Lake Chaffey?

[Allan]

Glen, a Dob and bino viewers are a great combination. The BinoTron slipped into my focuser and worked without any complication. I use them for everything in the solar system. For DSO it's still predominantly single widefield eyepieces. At Chaffey I was swapping them back and forth as the night progressed.

[SurferSmyth (Ryan)]

Thanks everyone for lending your knowledge and advice especially Jas, Brian and John for your in-depth replys. ive pm'd MattT in regards to his 7mm which appears to be just what im after.

another newbie question... asking this might make me look like i don't have a clue but but if and when i get this 7mm should i be barlowing it? or will it be absolute over kill? mind you i don't even own a barlow yet

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Nice one Ryan, should be a good combination. Regarding the Barlow...if you get some good seeing, try it...you never know!

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

A 2x would be 340x, this is not unheard of especially if you get out of suburbia. Won't happen often though. I pushed mine to 300 this morning and was clear enough to see mars polar caps and Cassini division. If you do get a Barlow, I would get a 1.5x. This will give you 257x. Nothing wrong with that.

[JJDOBBER79 (Jas)]

Get a quality one though. The ep is only as good as the worst piece of glass. So, if you are going to use an xw with a rubbish barlow you might as well use rubbish eps. What's a good barlow? I gotta TV only because I figure you cant go far wrong with TV. You can get them for about $100 used.