Hi from a newbie, point in the right direction?

[RedFox]

Hi all

I've always had an interest but never looked into it - with astronomy.

I watch the odd YouTube video and just the wow factor on some of the information (true or not ) has made me google and find these forums on a quiet Sunday afternoon.

First off, I'm a bit overwhelmed with the amount of information and different combinations of equipment. I had no idea that there would be so many different combinations and tech talk. I’ve spent the last 4 hours goggling and searching all sorts of gear.

I'm pretty keen for a "decent" telescope with GOTO - I'm more for the destination than the journey

I would like it to be small enough to setup quickly or take out side, however I wouldn’t be packing up and taking it away from the home.

I’d like to see as much as possible, like planets, moons, other galaxy’s – anything really

If I do get into it, I'd like to have equipment that wouldn’t need to be replaced, so bolt on or simple upgrades would be great. I have a budget of anywhere up to $1500, but that’s not fixed and could spend more if it’s worth it for the potential long term enjoyment to avoid spending money on upgrades etc.

I've tried to do the righty and do some research but its hard for someone as green as me

If anyone could recommend a setup based on this for me to look at it would be much appreciated! I've been browsing for sales, but its hard when you dont know what your looking for!


Thanks in advance guys, hope to get into this as a hobby.

[duncan]

Hi Redfox,
Best advice straight up is get along to a club meet and have a look and look thru some of the gear that's available.
If not possible then start off with a set of Binos.
And keep an eye out on what's for sale on here.
Cheers,
Duncan

PS. And a big WELCOME to IIS

[Suzy]

Redfox!

Others will answer your questions at some point soon I'm sure. Welcome to this wonderful community and to a most rewarding hobby.

[Suzy]

Sorry... me again. Couldn't just let this one go. You say, quote "I'm pretty keen for a "decent" telescope with GOTO - I'm more for the destination than the journey".

Knowing the skies makes us feel part of it, a personal level so to speak. We feel we belong, have knowledge and an understanding. When for example Orion goes away, we know Scorpius will visit soon. We know the wonders Scorpius will bring us (I'm still learning my way around the skies). When we show friends, objects in the sky, we delight on explaining the constellations and the details within. We don't need to look at an electronic guide to tell us. There's delight in this. Classic example, hubby was showing friends , the wonders of Carina recently- pointing out to fuzzy naked eye objects and explaining them. This is done with enthusiasm as we love showing people the sky. The lady got out her I-phone and zoomed on it. "oh Yes, you're right", she replied. I ask you, where's the fun in that. I don't think any "Go To" device would give you the same thrill. Most people on here have "Go To", simply because they know the sky well already and would rather spend the time on getting to the objects quickly than waste time finding them. Most people on here, would encourage you to learn the sky first. But, please don't let what I've said put you off. You don't have to learn, simply please leave yourself open to it.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth, anyway.

[big_dav_2001 (Davin)]

Hi Redfox...Welcome!!!

Im a relative newbie myself, and i'd also recommend heading over to your local astronomy club meeting and checking out some of their gear before buying anything.

You should be aware though, that although most of the photos you see on the net are mind-blowing, often, thats not actually how it appears to your eye when looking through a scope (we call them faint fuzzies for a reason). Many people who are just starting out in astronomy are often discouraged because they expect to see hubble-like quality and colour through their scopes, when in actual fact, visual observers (especially inexperienced ones like myself) often spend most of their time looking at faint/dim smudges and bright spots in the night sky.

Personally, to get an idea of what i'd see through a scope, i checked out some sketches of observations made by skilled astronomers. These are often done as they are standing at the eyepiece and are a great representation of what you will see theough the scope, as opposed to long-exposure stacked/edited/photoshopped images.

I really dont want to discourage you, there is some really cool stuff out there to see, but you should go and have a look through some scopes at your local astronomy club so that you know what to expect to see when you get your first scope.

Hope to see you on here with your first observing report soon!!

Davin

[big_dav_2001 (Davin)]

Knowing the skies makes us feel part of it, a personal level so to speak. We feel we belong, have knowledge and an understanding. When for example Orion goes away, we know Scorpius will visit soon. We know the wonders Scorpius will bring us (I'm still learning my way around the skies). When we show friends, objects in the sky, we delight on explaining the constellations and the details within. We don't need to look at an electronic guide to tell us. There's delight in this

Couldnt agree more Suzy.... Although i own a GOTO scope, theres a certain pleasure and satisfaction in manually looking for, and finally finding that one object youve been searching for 15mins for...

Redfox, im pretty sure there are many people on here who would discourage you from getting a GOTO as your first scope, finding it is half the fun...

Personally i'd recommend a 6 or 8" collapsible Dobsonian telescope as your first, its big enough to see many faint objects, reasonably portable, and can be fitted with an electronic finder at a later date once you know your way around...

Davin

[MrWombles (John)]

Originally Posted by big_dav_2001

Couldnt agree more Suzy.... Although i own a GOTO scope, theres a certain pleasure and satisfaction in manually looking for, and finally finding that one object youve been searching for 15mins for...

Redfox, im pretty sure there are many people on here who would discourage you from getting a GOTO as your first scope, finding it is half the fun...

Personally i'd recommend a 6 or 8" collapsible Dobsonian telescope as your first, its big enough to see many faint objects, reasonably portable, and can be fitted with an electronic finder at a later date once you know your way around...

Davin

Hi there - I'm new to this as well. I bought a second hand 8 inch scope with the goto thingy and couldn't figure it out that well. I ended up using the controller manually and found Saturn!! I was very excited and came running inside to tell everybody (They were eating dinner..) So Davin is right - finding the things is half the fun. I'm sure you will just know what will be right for you as each telescope has its advantages and disadvantages. I chose mine after reading Sky and Telescope (March edition..you can get back issues) when they had the answers to your very question.

[Suzy]

Hi again Redfox,
Try and get a hold of the April 2010 edition of Australian Sky and Telescope Magazine. Go to their website- they post back issues. Inside there is a special edition on buying telescopes, entitled, "What To Know Before You Buy". There is a wealth of information that will help you. This magazine also tells us what to expect in the skies in the month ahead, incl. a star map plus a wealth of other interesting and useful information.

I agree with Davin, a 6 or 8 inch dob is always a popular choice for beginners. Like Davin, I have one myself. If you have a look thru this forum you will see a poll on best beginner's scopes, and the dob ranks the highest. Simply because it is very easy to set up and transport. Beginners shouldn't get bogged down with having to set up time consuming mounts and confusing gagetry. A beginner needs to have satisfaction straight away. A dob will do this for you. You can always upgrade later when you're more knowledgeable and that way when you do spend the big dollars, it will come from experience for something that you really want.

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Hi Redfox.
Just in regard to the Go To thing. The important thing to remember with Go To is that you are swapping aperture for convenience. A good 8" scope with GOTO is almost always going to cost more than a 12" dob, often several times more, yet you will see far less with it.
Go to any star party, and what are most of the visual observers using, dobs, usually manually driven. Why? Because aperture alway wins. If you really want a computer to do the work, get an Argo Navis. A GSO 12" dob with Argo is probably going to set you back about $2k, a Celestron 8" Nexstar (probably the most basic GOTO about) is about $2800 at the moment....I know which way I would go!
I luckily ended up with a 12" plain vanilla dob and couldn't be happier, get it out every chance I get.
Malcolm

[mic_m (Michael)]

The first piece of advice I would give any beginner looking to get their first telescope is to join an astronomy club and attend a couple of star parties, this way you will have to opportunity to look through a variety of telescopes and develop a sense of what is important to you and what kind of views you can expect. However, baring that for now I will give you some more specific advice.

As has been noted by some above, there are often trade-offs in choosing a telescope, these are typically between aperture, portability, computerised features such as GOTO, as well as optical design.

The larger the aperture of a telescope the more light from astronomical objects the objective mirror or lens gathers and the brighter the images and the greater the resolution that is attainable. This implies that you should get the largest aperture possible; however, this is only true to a point. And that point generally comes down to size and weight considerations. You don’t want a huge telescope that is too big to move nor do you want one that is too small to produce the kind of images you are after. So all else being equal, it is best to get the largest aperture that you can easily move and store.

In terms of value for money you would be hard pressed to go past a Newtonian reflecting telescope, in particular a dobsonian mounted (alt-azimuth) Newtonian reflecting telescope. Newtonian reflectors are far cheaper than Catadioptric telescopes for a given size, however, they are often more heavy and bulky than catadioptric telescopes; which use a folded light path and mirrors to magnify the focal length of the telescope. All reflecting telescopes (i.e. catadioptric telescopes that use mirrors such as the Schmidt–Cassegrain (SCT) and Newtonian reflectors) require periodic collimation (aligning of the optics). Here is a short video describing the collimation process for a Newtonian reflector and here is a short article about collimating an SCT. At first collimation might sound a bit daunting but with practice you will get the hang of it quite quickly. If you choose a reflecting telescope you will need to purchase a collimation device like this unless it is already included in the telescope package.

A refracting telescope, on the other hand, does not typically require collimation; many refractors don’t have lens cells with collimation screws; their collimation is permanently set at the factory. A refractor does not have a central obstruction, which allows refractors to produce higher contrast images than an equivelent sized reflector, such as a Newtonian or an SCT. However, a well made refracting telescope will generally cost substantially more than a reflecting telescope for a given aperture. The reason for this is because of the number of high-quality lenses that are used to counteract the optical aberrations otherwise present in the refractor design. So while at a given aperture you can achieve greater resolution and contrast with a well made refractor, for the amount of money a decent refractor costs, you can easily afford a much larger reflecting telescope that would have greater image resolution and brightness than the smaller refractor. The dimensions of refractors vary greatly; some are short and light, while others are long and heavy (though not too bulky due to their typically small objective diameter); they exist in these sizes because thay are used for different observing applications; wide views of star fields (short and light refractors) and close observation of planets (long and heavy refractors).

In terms of GOTO and tracking, there is a premium payed for the convenience of this technology. So if you have limited funds to devote to a new telescope, it may be the case of trading aperture (brightness and resolution) for GOTO and tracking. For some people, i.e. those interested in observing planets (which are already relatively bright) or those that are interested in astrophotography, this may be a fair trade. (Note that for long exposure astrophotography you will either need a wedge (for an alt-zimuth mounted tracking telescope) or an equatorial mount). However, for those interested in the visual observation of faint deep sky objects (e.g. nebula, galaxies), aperture is considered to be much more important than GOTO or tracking because it greatley enhances the visability of these objects. Only you can determine whether trading aperture for GOTO is worth it. However, if you decide that GOTO and tracking is for you, you will likely need a power supply like this to power the mount of your telescope.

In addition to your telescope, a collimation device and power supply (if you choose a GOTO telescope), the only thing you will need are some quality eyepieces and perhaps a Barlow lens. In case you don’t know, the magnification of a telescope is calculated by dividing the telescopes focal length by the focal length of the eyepiece. See here for more details on this subject. What you really need is a low power eyepiece, a medium power eyepiece and a high-power eyepiece. A convenient way of choosing your eyepieces is through the exit pupil they produce with your telescope. For example, if you decide to get a 10” dobsonian telescope (1200mm, f/4.7), a good combination of eyepieces might be: 20-25mm (low power, large exit pupil) (you will likely get an eyepiece of about this focal length included as a part of the telescope package you buy), 17-10mm (medium power, moderate exit pupil) and 8-3mm (high power, small exit pupil). Some high-quality eyepiece brands and series are TeleVue, Orion Stratus series and Baader Hyperion, though, there are many others. Once you decide on a telescope you can start another thread to get some good eyepiece recommendations.

So what are your telescope options? I won’t recommend a telescope outright but I will give you some alternatives to consider that are within your $1500 budget.

A Sky-Watcher 10”Autotracking tracking dobsonian. These are $1499 at Andrews Communications. This telescope incorporates many of the features you are after. The great thing about this telescope is that you can move it by hand or use its automatic tracking feature, (according to some vendors it is possible to upgradable this telescope to GOTO with the addition of a SynScan hand controller-check this to confirm before you buy). The optical tube of this telescope can be collapsed to reduce its size for transport and storage (here is a video that demonstrates this feature), which might make it a better alternative to its solid tube counterpart. Because of the open strut structure connecting either end of the optical tube this telescope would require a light shroud to ensure that stray light does not enter the light path.

A midground design between a telescope with tracking and GOTO and one without it might be the Orion XT10i with digital setting circles. These are priced at $1115 at Sirius optics. This telescope mount has a computer that directs you to the object you are looking for through arrow diagrams (up, down, left and right); however you must move the telescope manually to the object and track the object yourself. This telescope does not require a power supply other than a 9 volt battery.

Another alternative is the Celestron Nexstar 6SE. This telescope sells for $1499 at Andrews Communications. It also has full GOTO and tracking. However, it has a smaller objective lens and a larger central obstruction (by percentage) then the two telescopes above. Though, due to its folded optical path and smaller aperture it is lighter and more compact.

I can’t make a suggestion for a refractor because I am not too familiar with any specific refracting telescope. However, I do know that Sky-Watcher and Celestron make quality refractors (some with GOTO mount packages), so if you decide you want this kind of telescope check with you local Sky-Watcher and Celestron dealers to see what they have in stock.

If you decide that GOTO and tracking is not important for the kind of observing you will be doing you may like to consider getting a larger telescope, for instance...

A 12” Saxon dobsonian telescope. These are $1,395 from OZ scopes. However, a 12” f/4.9 solid tube dobsonian telescope is very large and very heavy, which makes them challenging to move arround and to fit into standard sized vehicles, so if you are considering this telescope (or one like it) it would be worth seeing one in person before making a purchase decision.

If the size rather than the weight of a large solid tube dobsonian telescope is an issue for you, you may like to consider a 12” Sky-Watcher Flextube. This telescope sells for $1299 at Andrews Communications. Like the first telescope I noted above, this one also has an optical tube that can be collapsed to reduce its size for transport and storage, however, like the Sky-Watcher telescope above, this telescope will need a light shroud.

Good luck with your decisions, let us know what you decide....

Michael.

[Suzy]

Great response Michael! - very informative read.

[mic_m (Michael)]

Thanks Suzy

[mic_m (Michael)]

I thought that I might add, regardless of what type of telescope you choose it is also a good idea to get a planisphere and a good astronomy book; these will assist you greatly in finding and observing astronomical objects.

[RedFox]

guys thanks for such great replys

Michael, great post, whatever they pay you, you deserve more

Might look at some binoculars if they can see a bit, and then see how i go from there

If anyone can recommend any binoculars and what to expect to see / if i need a tripod / if i should buy in aus or import - that would be sweet.

I'm currently looking at
Celestron SkyMaster 15x70 Binocular

and I tripod as im sure my hands will shake
http://www.ozscopes.com.au/yukon-uni...ripod-kit.html


or to get a DOB as mentioned before....argh


thanks again, very informative from all! just dont know which way to go !

[Vanda (Ian)]

Lots of good advice already given - if in doubt look through different apertures to see if they match your expectations. I remember reading once "the best scope for you is the one you use the most." I use my 10" DOB more often than my 120 APO - its easier and the stars are much brighter - and their my main interest. I think with DOB prices being what they are why buy less than a 10"? Great portability - considerable power. Best wishes on your choice.

[adman (Adam)]

Please don't get the Celestron binoculars - I had a pair that I had to return because they broke....they also felt cheaply made and the field had a huge amount of curvature which was tolerable when looking at the night sky, but made them almost impossible to use for terrestrial viewing - looked like you were looking through a fish-eye lens...tall buildings looked like they were bowed in the middle etc

Adam

[Suzy]

Great move Redfox, do however get a decent pair of bino's. I have a pair of 7x50 which serves me well. Watch out for too high mag on binos- they can be hard to keep steady and you will need a tripod. In my opinion, I would just get standard binos (without getting involved in ones that need a tripod (at this stage anyway, as your undecided what path to take). At the end of the day, regardless of getting a telescope or not, your binos will be highly valued and used. When your out scoping, you will praise them no end to help find things. And praise them even more when you can't be bothered getting out the scope and just want a quick relaxing fix. Most of us with scopes have binos. Even if you give up Astronomy all together, they will still come in handy throughout your life.

With my 7x50 binos, I can see the beautiful Omega Centauri Glob and lots of faint fuzzies all from my suburban yard. Just the other night I was in awe of how exquisite the M7 cluster in Scorpius looked in my binos - like crushed sparkling glass. Search these threads, I'm sure there must be some good info somewhere here on this site on bino buying. There are lots of sites dedicated to binoviewing. Here is one www.lightandmatter.com/binosky/binosky.html.

Please do your research and get good advice before buying. Remember, your binoculars will be a worthy life time investment that you will never regret. Trust me.

P.S. Perhaps you should start a new thread, "Help Needed Purchasing Good Binoculars".

[Visionoz (Bill)]

Hi RedFox

Check out this site http://www.aswa.info - information available for you to see if you could perhaps attend one of the events to have a "feel" for the right kind of scope/gear before you plonk your $$$$ down!!

Cheers
Bill

[bmitchell82 (Brendan)]

i will say this if your in any kind of light pollution and that means pretty much the most of perth untill you get down to mandurah or upto muchea and out to the hills seeing stars apart from the most obvious is damn hard, i lived up in Morley and i couldn't even see omega cen/ LMC/SMC the milkyway or anything. goto is the key, as though the scope you can see alot of nice objects.

I do have to dissagree that having a goto scope will lessen the fun and wont let you learn the sky, I learnt more from my goto than i did with the maps! and my knowledge has increased dramatically of fainter stars, constellations ect ect. Being able to hold on a target for 10-15 min with out the hassle of buggerizing around moving the scope will always give you more pleasure of actually viewing the object.

Also something to take into consideration is will you think of attaching a camera to your telescope.? that changes things a wee bit.

In my opinion though, a dob is the best solution to learn and get the hang of things

if you can afford a 12" dob, then go for the 10" if not the 8" more aperature more details you will see. (oh and watch out for the virus... once contracted things only seem to get bigger.

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Brendan
I think the central point as regards Go To is that money spent on it is often better spent on aperture. Most people don't want to spend too much as a starting point and very good 8 or 10 inche dob can be had these days for prices that will leave change from $1k. Even very small go to scopes are going to set you back over $1500.