iOptron iPolar issue

Crater101 (Warren) · #1 19-02-2023, 10:46 PM

Well, as luck would have it, I get a beautifully clear night for the first time in ages, grab my gear, head to the marvellous site five minutes down the road, set up...and then the issues started.

Short version - the iPolar scope, or maybe the software, is playing up.

Longer version...I have an iOptron CEM26, the one with the integrated iPolar scope and stainless steel tripod. I usually pair it with a modded Canon 60D and a WO Redcat 51. It's portable and not too much of a hassle to set up.

Tonight, with clear skies beckoning, I went through the iPolar routine, managed to "Confirm Position 1" and then the fun started. The iPolar scope appeared to keep "looping" through the same process. It would detect stars - in numbers like 19, 24, etc. - then tell me "Plate Solve Failed", as a screen full of stars winked in and out on the software. It was going through this looping process over and over about every half second.

I did the obvious and rebooted everything, took a new dark frame, etc. Same result. I checked connections, USB hub, etc., and rebooted again. By my watch, it went through the same looping process for almost 25 minutes. Way too long.

I've checked, and I'm using the latest version of the iPolar software. The scope is an integral part of the CEM26. The mount was levelled, the load balanced, and the optional GPS module was (initially) fitted to aid in proper positioning. Environmental conditions were good, seeing was good, no cloud, and only the faintest of breezes. Almost perfect conditions (sob!)

I should add that the laptop has the permissions set to allow communication with the iPolar.

Does anyone have any ideas, hints, tips, or suggestions? Feel free...

12InchTim (Timothy) · #2 22-02-2023, 04:15 PM

Hi Warren,

I haven't used my iPolar yet (just took possession of it recently!) so haven't seen this issue. Reading through the manual, section 4.3 Plat Solving (yes, that is a spelling mistake in the manual) states "...uncheck the RAW image"...and also suggests adjusting the exposure times (decrease) if too many stars are displayed.

Swagman105 (Geoff) · #3 23-02-2023, 08:47 AM

I have had exactly the same problems with the ipolar on my cem70. I have contacted Ioptron and they suggested it may have been poor seeing conditions, I took the mount up to our acreage in the country and it seemed to be ok to start with then the same thing started happening.
The mount was intended to be permanently installed there but we have now sold the property and the mount has been sitting in my garage unused for the last year.
With the better conditions have managed a few imaging sessions with my ZEQ25 using a Polemaster which does a good job of PA, but keen to now get the 70 out and try in the next week or so. I will keep you posted.
PS I read somewhere early on that ioptron May have slipped up by mixing up the cameras for the i guider and ipolar during manufacture. I don’t know whether there is any truth in that though.

Crater101 (Warren) · #4 23-02-2023, 12:23 PM

Thanks folks.
I sent a note to iOptron, and they have come back (reasonably quickly) and informed me that the plate solve may fail if the pole is more than six degrees away from the main field of view of the iPolar camera. That was a new one...
I didn't honestly think I was that far off target - the skies were clear and I know my way around the night sky - but anything is possible, so I plan to try again when the skies clear. Whenever that may be. I'll let you know how it goes. Humble thanks for the advice.

Swagman105 (Geoff) · #5 23-02-2023, 02:31 PM

Just reading 12inchTims post, I noted his comment about unchecking the Raw box. I just can't remember if I did that when I last had it out 12 months or so ago.
Looks like we'll get some half decent skies here tonight in Geelong so I'm going to delve into the depths of the garage get the CEM70 out and have a go.
Hopefully the RAW image clue might be the answer but will compare notes.

Swagman105 (Geoff) · #6 23-02-2023, 10:27 PM

Had a chance to get out tonight 23/02/23. Cloud free sky, no moon.
Made sure the Raw box was unchecked but then encountered the same old problem that has plagued me ever since I got the mount.
Star detection numbers were jumping around all over the place, momentarily displaying plate solving success then immediately back to plate solving failure.
Every now and again the confirm position 1 button would activate but then just as quickly become inactive. It was just impossible to progress to anything like a successful polar align.
Turned the exposure up and down to get from nearly 30 stars detected to just a few and the same jumping about occurred and lack of plate solving even with high numbers of stars detected.
I took a video of the screen which I had hoped to upload here but that seems too large a file for the forum to handle. If anyone would like to see it perhaps send me a PM with an email address and I could try to send it that way.
Regarding the suggestion that the Ipolar was not aimed accurately enough at the SCP region, I can discount that as I have a true North/South line etched into my driveway and have no trouble getting my ZEQ with a Polemaster lined up on the Octans trapezoid almost always at first attempt.
Looking forward to hearing how Crater101 fared as the symptoms he reported seem almost identical to mine. Will hold off contacting Ioptron until we can compare notes.

Crater101 (Warren) · #7 24-02-2023, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swagman105

Had a chance to get out tonight 23/02/23. Cloud free sky, no moon.
Made sure the Raw box was unchecked but then encountered the same old problem that has plagued me ever since I got the mount.
Star detection numbers were jumping around all over the place, momentarily displaying plate solving success then immediately back to plate solving failure.
Every now and again the confirm position 1 button would activate but then just as quickly become inactive. It was just impossible to progress to anything like a successful polar align.
Turned the exposure up and down to get from nearly 30 stars detected to just a few and the same jumping about occurred and lack of plate solving even with high numbers of stars detected.
I took a video of the screen which I had hoped to upload here but that seems too large a file for the forum to handle. If anyone would like to see it perhaps send me a PM with an email address and I could try to send it that way.
Regarding the suggestion that the Ipolar was not aimed accurately enough at the SCP region, I can discount that as I have a true North/South line etched into my driveway and have no trouble getting my ZEQ with a Polemaster lined up on the Octans trapezoid almost always at first attempt.
Looking forward to hearing how Crater101 fared as the symptoms he reported seem almost identical to mine. Will hold off contacting Ioptron until we can compare notes.

We had low overcast and light rain here from about dusk. THings are looking better for this evening. I'll let you know.

For what it may be worth, your experiences are almost identical to my own.

Crater101 (Warren) · #8 25-02-2023, 08:53 AM

Took the mount out last night. There was some passing scattered cloud, but not enough to cause any issues. I got pretty much the same results as before - no real change - and couldn't establish a polar alignment with the iPolar. I had checked most carefully to ensure that everything was aligned properly.

Further e-mails to iOptron have brought the information that if the celestial pole is too near the edge of the field of view of the camera, this may also cause issues. I can guarantee that it wasn't near the edge this time.

(bangs head on desk in frustration)

Swagman105 (Geoff) · #9 25-02-2023, 09:15 AM

Hi Crater101.
You're not alone in banging your head. I have had this problem for over two years. Due to COVID and personal reasons just haven't had the time to use the mount and it has been largely stored away until now.
My last email to Ioptron was 12 months ago including a video of the problem but I don't seem to have had a reply that I can now find and at least no effective fix has been suggested.
Given you are experiencing similar problems at least I know that I am not alone and unlikely to be a dumbo.
The point has come where I will have to ask Ioptron to fix the issue and I expect that will involve sending the Ipolar back to them for inspection. I remember reading of another issue where they advised the owner how the ipolar could be safely removed from the mount for replacement, so my first question of them will be how to do that.
I will be sending an email to them today and will advise of any outcome.

Crater101 (Warren) · #10 25-02-2023, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swagman105

Hi Crater101.
You're not alone in banging your head. I have had this problem for over two years. Due to COVID and personal reasons just haven't had the time to use the mount and it has been largely stored away until now.
My last email to Ioptron was 12 months ago including a video of the problem but I don't seem to have had a reply that I can now find and at least no effective fix has been suggested.
Given you are experiencing similar problems at least I know that I am not alone and unlikely to be a dumbo.
The point has come where I will have to ask Ioptron to fix the issue and I expect that will involve sending the Ipolar back to them for inspection. I remember reading of another issue where they advised the owner how the ipolar could be safely removed from the mount for replacement, so my first question of them will be how to do that.
I will be sending an email to them today and will advise of any outcome.

I'll keep prompting them too. I may not get it all set up tonight...

...but I'll let you know of any progress when I do.

Cheers!

Swagman105 (Geoff) · #11 28-02-2023, 01:00 PM

Have been emailing iOptron support regarding the above issue and today have sent off the iPolar camera and the input board opposite for their examination.

They sent me the following link to instructions on how to remove the iPolar, input board and cables for shipping.

https://www.ioptron.com/v/Support/CE...tion_Check.pdf

I only sent the camera and input board as the cables connect up into the hub instead of going directly through. I was uneasy about removing the saddle to get to the hub connection points but they said that unless I could see any evidence of pinching or poor cable health not to worry. I felt the less I disturbed them the better.

Their response to emails over the last few days has been very quick and helpful in manner.

Crater101 (Warren) · #12 02-03-2023, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swagman105

Have been emailing iOptron support regarding the above issue and today have sent off the iPolar camera and the input board opposite for their examination.

...

Their response to emails over the last few days has been very quick and helpful in manner.

I've been waiting for some clear skies to give everything one final attempt in an effort to sort the bugs out before taking the same step...

Three days of high overcast and haze.

Tonight is looking good. I'll keep you posted, but I think I'll be going down the same path.

ReidG · #13 09-03-2023, 02:50 PM

I do not have an ioptron mount but my experience with my SkyWatcher may be slightly relevant.

I found it basically impossible to get the built in polar alignment to work from suburban Brisbane.

I think the problem may be at least partly due to the fact that stars at the South Celestial Pole are comparatively few and far between and rather dim.

What has worked well for me is use the Plate Solving available in SharpCap. Even with a camera only providing a coverage of about 0.25 degree by 0.15 degree I am able to go to a star cluster near my intended target and use SharpCap to do the resolving and setting of the mount.

With modestly careful setup of the mount and telescope (C925EdgeHD) I can simply skip the one, two, three star routine choice and go straight to a suitable cluster. I use WiFi connection to the mount, not the hand held control.

Life may be easier in the northern hemisphere but i did not have a telescope when I lived there so cannot be sure.

Swagman105 (Geoff) · #14 09-03-2023, 04:57 PM

Yes ReidG, that was one of the issues that was raised early by iOptron as I had initially tried it out in suburban Geelong. I then took it to country Victoria and still had the same problem in clearer darker skies. The problem is not finding enough stars but instability with the number found causing plate solving difficulties.
Even the QHY Polemaster worked just fine in Geelong, with a steady display of stars, so I would be very unhappy to learn that the Ipolar, which is a built in feature of a lot of iOptron's mounts like my CEM70, would be useless in urban areas.
I feel sure that there has to be a fault with mine.
Anyway will find out soon, as got tracking advice from Aus Post that my iPolar has landed in the US this morning on its way back to iOptron.

Crater101 (Warren) · #15 10-03-2023, 02:30 PM

My own issues continue, although I haven't had a lot of clear skies of late to undertake a proper recording of the issue to send to iOptron.
Heading out tonight to fix that. I live in a rural village in the central west of NSW, and I'm heading to the local cricket pitch. Bortle 3-4 at worst. The near-full moon won't help, but I'll be setup and ready to start polar alignment before it rises just before 9.00pm.

I'll keep you posted, but having used the QHY Polemaster on my HEQ5 and trying to have an easily portable mount with the iOptron and the integrated iPolar, I'm going to be pretty disappointed myself if I have to dismantle the thing and send the polar scope back.

Crater101 (Warren) · #16 11-03-2023, 09:29 AM

OK, last night...clear skies (WooHoo!) still air, and...the same issues continued.

I'll be sending a recorded screen video, along with a few screen captures to indicate that the mount was communicating correctly with the laptop, to iOptron later this morning. I expect I'm going to follow Swagman105 down the same path.

Swagman105 (Geoff) · #17 14-03-2023, 07:55 AM

Just an update on postage to the US.
I sent my unit standard postage on 28th Feb and AP advises it was delivered to iOptron today 14th Mar. (14 days).
Just to give an idea of the delay when sending items to the US.

Crater101 (Warren) · #18 14-03-2023, 09:29 AM

For what it may be worth to folks reading this, I've found the technical support staff at iOptron to be very speedy in their replies and advice. The saga continues...

Crater101 (Warren) · #19 20-03-2023, 07:39 AM

OK, I think things are on the right path now.

When I purchased the mount, I got the optional GPS unit with it. After much back and forth with the tech support staff at iOptron (who, I have to say, have been really great to deal with) it seems that the GPS unit had a bug that was telling the mount it was in the northern hemisphere - no matter what I entered into the system.

So...I deleted all the iOptron software, disconnected the GPS, cleared the settings, and I re-installed everything without connecting the GPS! I can now enter co-ordinates manually without them defaulting back to northern hemisphere settings. I also noticed that the cable from the mount to my laptop wasn't in the best condition, so I installed a new one - and after a little bit of an effort last night, I was able to polar align the mount! It wasn't perfect, as the seeing was terrible (atmospheric disturbance after a VERY hot day) but it worked.

The technical staff at iOptron are sending out a new GPS module for me which should fix the problem. I've had to pay the postage, but I'll accept that.

It looks like the problem may be fixed. In short (too late...) the faulty GPS had created some issue with the software so that the iPolar camera and software were looking for stars in the northern hemisphere to plate solve with.

Swagman105, I've sent you a PM about the same.

Swagman105 (Geoff) · #20 07-04-2023, 09:58 AM

Just thought it worth a further update on my iPolar issues.
28th Feb - iPolar camera and back panel posted from Geelong.
14th Mar - received by iOptron.
20th Mar - They advised that they detected and replaced a faulty USB_U board on the back panel. They also said however that they did not think that it would have been responsible for the star detection instability problems rather would explain some of the random disconnection issues I had reported earlier.
22nd Mar - Posted back by iOptron.
5th Mar - I made an enquiry to AP as they had no tracking information on it since leaving waiting departure from New York on 26th March. They located the package at the Melbourne airport mail facility, awaiting clearance. With Easter now upon us am getting really frustrated wanting to try out the repaired iPolar to see if there is any improvement.
Crater101, have you received your replacement GPS module and had a chance to try it out yet? Really keen to know.