Just starting out. Think I'll go with a Dobsonian.
Hi
I have just joined IIS and want to commend everyone for the info and help here. I have found out so much by just reading past posts. I am getting back into stargazing after years doing other things. I think a 10" Dobsonian will suit me (planets and moon mainly, no photography).
My question is whether or not tracking is worth it? I have little ones that I want to get involved and I want to make it easy for them to start out. Andrews has the Skywatcher 10" Dobsonian with tracking for $1599. Could I buy that and attach an Argo Novis for push to function?
Or should I just start out with a basic 10" Dobsonian like a GSO and use the money I save for extras? Again, Andrew's have a Super Deluxe package available.
Hope that makes sense. Many thanks.
Last edited by shane.mcneil; 06-08-2009 at 06:01 AM.
This is entirely up to you. I have a DOB, don't do photography, and don't need tracking or an Argo Navis (which might cost another $1000). I enjoy reading maps and finding my objects by star-hopping. Other people like the convenience of an Argo Navis as it allows them to go through many targets in one session. Personally, I like to linger on an object and just enjoy the find. There is some argument for using an Argo Navis in suburbia where the skyglow makes the search for objects a lot more difficult.
I've got two dobs, one being 10", the other 17.5".
I've been tossing up the idea of an Argo Navis system for the reasons Rob points out for urban viewing. Since then I found that a 50mm finder, preferrably straight through correct image, and a pair of 50mm binoculars serve to overcome star hoping problems in city viewing, . I too enjoy the thrill of the hunt,. Then spend the cash on good EPs
The convinience of DSC is not to be sneezed at. They have their place. Just have a good think. Argo is a very, very good gizmo.
With respects to a motorised scope, most viewing by novices is done at low power, meaning usually little nudging is needed per person. Some people enjoy the challenge that co-ordinating the nudge brings. Even higher power viewing can be done by placing the object just out of the field of view & allowing it to drift into view.
I've been tossing up the idea of an Argo Navis system for the reasons Rob points out for urban viewing. Since then I found that a 50mm finder, preferrably straight through correct image, and a pair of 50mm binoculars serve to overcome star hoping problems in city viewing, . I too enjoy the thrill of the hunt,. Then spend the cash on good EPs
I also use an 8x50 correct image right angle finder, a great tool for star-hopping. The red-dot finder that came with the scope was a joke. Good point about saving money for quality eyepieces.
Certainly agree with comment re eyepieces. Would invest in them well before going Argo or buy a non motorised dob and spend the extra cash on a good Nagler or Ethos. Also I sould buy aperture first, go 12" or as big as you can afford first then save for an Argo.
Skies should be nice in Taree
Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm getting greedy already. I hope the credit card will cope. I've read that 12" Dobsonians are not really for beginners but no one really said why. Any ideas?
Also some say that they are just that much harder to transport. As I will usually have all of my family with me, I'm not sure if I will fit everything (and everyone) in. That's why I was interested in the collapsible SkyWatcher.
Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm getting greedy already. I hope the credit card will cope. I've read that 12" Dobsonians are not really for beginners but no one really said why. Any ideas?
Also some say that they are just that much harder to transport. As I will usually have all of my family with me, I'm not sure if I will fit everything (and everyone) in. That's why I was interested in the collapsible SkyWatcher.
I went from a 60mm refractor to the 12inch DOB. It was a damn sight easier to find things! Reports on the Skywatchers here on IIS seem to be fairly positive.
Read Duncan's review ... http://www.iceinspace.com.au/41-531-0-0-1-0.html
If transport is a problem with a solid tube, here is a solution if you are confident with tools, even a little:
You can purchase the 12" solid, & convert it to a truss scope. It is not overly complicated, & plenty of help is at hand. My first dob is one I made myself, a 10". Bought the optics, built everything else. Just did my homework before I got to it. I'll be doing this with my 17.5", it is just too big & heavy as a solid tube. The satisfaction is incalculable.
It also can be done over a period of time (kids needs), & you can use just about all the components from the solid scope, like optics, finder, mirror cell (most difficult item to get right), spider, teflon bearings, etc.
Transport is definitely the issue with 12 solid tube. Wouldn't do it if you have a bad back. A trolley to assist with moving it outside is a must. Also if you are going to a dark site or away from home your car must be capable of fitting it. I have an Astra wagon and the tube goes in easily, its the mount that just sqeezes in. If I had a sedan or hatch, I would struggle.
The main thing with those advising against a 12" for beginners is the old adage "the best scope is the one you use the most" and if it becomes too much hassle to carry it outside, it won't get used. Another issue with 12" is that they do need regular collimation. Investing in knobs and collimation tools adds to the expense and there is a learning curve to get over.
That said, I am very happy with my 12" GSO dob.
The value of tracking should not be underestimated since it makes viewing all objects much easier and more detail can be picked up. When viewing an object drifting across the field (even in an ultrawide eyepiece) your brain is constantly locking in on the object and you dont end up seeing the detail in say a planet or picking up that faint galaxy as easily as when the image is stationary.
In fact one could argue that a tracked smaller 'scope can help you see more than a non tracked larger 'scope.
Tracking also helps with group viewing since you don't have to constantly re-centre the object. Of course it does depend on how low a power you are using and what objects you are looking at but moderate power upward benefit from tracking.
The Argo can be added at anytime provided the encoder brackets are available and if they're not now they soon will be.
I'll go the opposite approach and say get the aAgonavis and encoders.
I'm pretty sure the encoder kit is now available for the Skywatcher collapsible dob.
For things like the moon, Jupiter, Saturn, you probably wont use the Argo to find these as their pretty easy to identify using something like Stellarium. But sooner or later, you'll want to observe/hunt down dso, globular clusters, maybe double stars and thats where the Argo comes to the foray.
Not sure what your patience is like or your preparedness to go into learning the traditional way, but it can take time and could lead to frustration. The Argo on the other hand takes you there (admittedly you need to push the scope to get to the objects) but the hard work is done for you, leaving time for you to enjoy the objects and understand/learn from a different perspective.
I know there are diehards out their who enjoy learning the traditional way and there is nothing wrong with that, but the Argo imho an invaluable resource. You could wait 6 months before getting the Argo, but when you do, you'll kick yourself and ask why you didn't I get that in the 1st couple of weeks !!!
As for eyepieces wait awhile and appreciate those, but definitely better to have a few high quality ones as opposed to several medicore ones - the difference is amazing and more important for faster scopes < F.5.
I'll go the opposite approach and say get the aAgonavis and encoders.
I'm pretty sure the encoder kit is now available for the Skywatcher collapsible dob.
Thanks for that Norm. I've only read good about the Argo Navis. What do you think of the SkyWatcher that comes with tracking and then adding the Argo to it, when my wallet recovers? Then I would have a push-to that can track?
Last edited by shane.mcneil; 06-08-2009 at 10:39 PM.
Tracking also helps with group viewing since you don't have to constantly re-centre the object. Of course it does depend on how low a power you are using and what objects you are looking at but moderate power upward benefit from tracking.
That's what I was thinking about. If it were just me I wouldn't bother with tracking at the moment. But I have a large family and a number of friends who I want to share the experience with and I thought tracking would assist that.
It's a lot extra money just for the convenience though, so I'll have to way it up. Thanks for your help.
You can purchase the 12" solid, & convert it to a truss scope. It is not overly complicated, & plenty of help is at hand. My first dob is one I made myself, a 10". Bought the optics, built everything else. Just did my homework before I got to it. I'll be doing this with my 17.5", it is just too big & heavy as a solid tube. The satisfaction is incalculable.
I'm not sure that I am that confident with tools to try that yet. But it is an option. I actually was looking at the Meade Lightbridges too. They seem a bit over priced though and some say that you don't save that much room on a 10"???
Last edited by shane.mcneil; 06-08-2009 at 10:39 PM.
You don't need to buy a scope and then start working on it to make it transportable. You want to buy it and use it. If you need to transport the scope my advice would be to buy a 10" Meade Lightbridge. These are very portable and easily fitted with Argo Navis if you want to spend the extra money on that wonderful product. The Meade Lightbridges are made by GSO and are excellent optically and mechanically for the price.
there is a third option: get a solid scope, like Alan's, learn to use it, in the meantime figureout how to build a truss scope (you'll be surprised what you can do with limited tools & experience- look at the attached photo of my 10" which I've seen up scaled to a 12"), & save the pennies for the Argo, which if built even to how I've done my 10" the Argo Navis can be retro-fitted.
You can also do the whole SDM & fit up your scope like Norm's beautiful SDM026 14.5", . Portable, Argo, & built like the proverbial outhouse. This IS one dream scope:
Wow I suddenly realise how much I don't know. Your scope looks great. I wouldn't even have thought about attempting that. How long did it take you?
I'm thinking that I should just start out simple, like a 10" GSO and see how I go. Once I have a better idea of what I want to do, I can go from there. I'm trying to get on to my local Astronomy Club to maybe look at some other scopes and see what it is like.
Thanks again for your comments. I appreciate advice.
to IIS, mate.
. I too enjoy the thrill of the hunt,
. Then spend the cash on good EPs
. Portable, Argo, & built like the proverbial outhouse. This IS one dream scope:
