Need some help!!

jmb · #1 22-10-2009, 09:42 PM

Since my last thread, i have done a fair bit of research and drawn on the experience of some of the members here, mainly Alex, who has been extremely patient with me.
I very much like the idea of portability and good optics. I know most would probably recommend a DOB, but i have just sold my 6”DOB due to my lack of physical space. I need something compact, and light, that is easy to set up...and that i actually use. So I am wanting a nice ‘grab and go’ telescope.
I have checked out refractors recommended here, and like the SkyWatcher 102mm Refractor. The reviews for this model seem very good. I was also leaning towards the SkyWatcher 120mm Refractor but felt it did not get as good reviews as the 102mm. (both of these would be purchased locally New = this option would allow me to purchase some accessories NOW)
I thought I would check out that perception here with people who are familiar with both.
Another possibility, is the Celestron C5 or G5, while these are more expensive I realise these are probably big improvements over the refractors. (Both of these would be second-hand – would not purchase any accessories at this stage)
Also looking at the Skywatcher black diamond 127MAK (local purchase new – would not purchase any accessories at this stage)
I guess at this point i am somewhat confused and thought it best to share some of my thoughts here before going ahead with any purchases.
Thanks for your time
Regards
Janine

jmb · #2 23-10-2009, 02:48 PM

any help at all would be great!!!!1

erick (Eric) · #3 23-10-2009, 02:53 PM

Love to help, but I know nothing about refractors, except for a little 2" Galileoscope and finderscopes

But you want to step up from your 6" dob in terms of performance, surely. Not sure what refractor aperture will give you a better light gathering performance - but it is an apples and oranges comparison, I think.

jmb · #4 23-10-2009, 03:22 PM

not sure that i am actually stepping up, so to speak.
the problem with the DOB for me was that i have limited physical space, and the result was that i didnt use the DOB as much as i would have liked. it was just a nuisance to get out quickly and set up. so i acknowledge that ideally the DOB would be the way to go. But for me, it just did not work.
that is why i am leaning towards the C5/G5, or maybe the Skywatcher BD 127mak.
they seem to be compact, easy to set up, and the reviews of each of these in particular seem to be very good. to be honest, i have not come across as many reviews for the Skywatcher.
the refractors seems to be highly recommended here, that is why i have listed the 102mm and 120mm which i can buy at York here in Brisbane.
just looking for advise from users of these telescopes.
am grateful for the help i have received to date. it is a big learning curve. IIS has been a big help to me.
thanks
janine

Benno85 (Ben) · #5 23-10-2009, 03:58 PM

Hi Janine,

Just had a quick look at the models you've mentioned, and between the 102mm and 120mm Skywatcher refractors and the 127mm Mak, both would have their strongpoints.

The refractors both have focal ratios of f/5, which would give a nice wide field of view great for open clusters and browsing the starfields around the Milky Way, whereas the Mak has a focal ratio of f/11, which will reduce the field of view but offer a better view of the planets. Think of it as looking through the centre of a toilet roll and a drinking straw.....the toilet roll is shorter and wider, whilst the drinking straw is longer and narrower. Bit of a rough analogy, I'm still an L-Plater in this game as well!!

If it was me, I'd go the 120mm refractor - easy maintenance (no collimation required), it's lighter and would therefore get more use.

Best of luck, and keep the questions coming

Ben.

jmb · #6 23-10-2009, 04:28 PM

i would appreciate more info re the differences between the 120mm refractor and 127MAK or C5/G5
i would have thought the mak or C5/G5 was more portable?
i havent found any comparisons when i google, so am looking forward to hearing from the experts here...
thanks

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #7 23-10-2009, 07:38 PM

I am unsure about what you mean by setting up and that the dob was hard to setup "it was just a nuisance to get out quickly and set up." I will assure you that every setup that you have mentioned will take longer to set up and are more complex as you have to start dealing with things like rough polar alignment level and what not. plus all of the scopes your looking at will take up the same if not more physical space than the dob.

I think you have to look at what you really want as what your asking contradicts every point of why you wanted to downgrade.

as for the scopes you have mentioned i belive the best for you would be the celestron style of scope with goto and all things like that as you will then get the best use of the scope because it can take you and show you things if your not really good with finding objects then anything else will frustrate you.

when looking at reviews do remember that it is totally the feel of who is reviewing it unless there is scientific method behind it or somebody who is extremely experienced in telescope optics and manufacture. Do look more at what the telescope will offer and what you like to look at as this will be the biggest determination to what scope you get. so ask more things like this is what i like to do whats the best telescope for me based on what i want to do.

jmb · #8 23-10-2009, 08:20 PM

hi brendan
thanks for the reply.
i live in a flat and have limited physical space. i want a telescope that i can put in a cupboard pretty much set up and bring out when i want....i want something portable and easy...the DOB was a great telescope, just didnt suit me and as a result got used less and less.
something that is a grab and go would suit me better, and hopefully result in being used more often, resulting in being a good telescope for me.
i want to view details on the moon, explore the planets, constellations and develop the interest i have had for a long time.
for me, the money i am thinking of spending is a lot of money and i want to know i am getting the best possible scope for me, something that will be fun to use on what i do know, and will help me discover more sights and develop my interest in this hobby. i want to cruise the skies with my trusty sky maps and put names to things i have just read about...'
i want to primarily have fun....
hope that clarifies things a bit more for you
thanks
janine

GTB_an_Owl (Geoff) · #9 23-10-2009, 08:56 PM

Hi Janine

when you say you live in a flat - do you have any backyard at all ?

buy one of those "box seats" and store your dob in that in the backyard
for the base - do what i do - a compost bin from bunnings over the top of it

geoff

jmb · #10 23-10-2009, 09:14 PM

shared backyard, otherwise it would work.
too late, i have sold the DOB though

Blue Skies (Jacquie) · #11 24-10-2009, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmb

something that is a grab and go would suit me better, and hopefully result in being used more often, resulting in being a good telescope for me.
i want to view details on the moon, explore the planets, constellations and develop the interest i have had for a long time.

I have to back up what Brendan said above. All three models you mentioned at the top of this thread will be worse to handle than the dob. First you have to take the tripod and mount out, then take out the counterweights, then take out the optical tube (scope), then line it up south...that is not 'grab and go"! I think you need to come to grips with a choice - either you're going to get a really small 'grab and go' that you can tuck under your arm but wont show you much detail in the sky (because you've taken a massive step down in aperture from the 6"), or you're going to have to accept that the good views of the sky involve a little more set up time than you would like. Telescopes are a bit like that, there is always a downside and you need to choose the downside you can live with. For you it's ease of use versus lack of detail. Probably not what you want to hear but that's how it goes.

This thread reminds of the time I ran into a family that had inherited an Astroscan and wanted a 'simpler to use' telescope. I told them you can't get much simpler than that! They weren't impressed. Put the extra effort in, it will be worth it.

jmb · #12 24-10-2009, 01:11 AM

thanks for that, but i think the G5 or Mak 127 will in fact be more suitable for me as a grab and go scope.
i have read reviews, seen them at the shop, and am leaning in that direction as oppossed to the refractors.
i have sold the DOB, dont really feel i keep needing to explain that decision....what i want is something that is easy to set up and will in fact give me good optics...i was seeking help to do that...telling me i am stepping backwards really is not helpful to me....
brendan was helpful in suggesting that for me the way to go is probably the celestron C5/G5 route, which i tend to agree with....from what i have heard these are able to use a camera tripod which would allow me to set it up quickly for quick looks...and the proper mount can be set up for more organised, longer nights...
any suggestions are very welcome

jmb · #13 24-10-2009, 01:16 AM

gee you are very funny!!!
i thought this forum was supposed to be helpful....

hilb · #14 24-10-2009, 01:29 AM

I've read where C5s used to come with a camera mount, i.e. something to mount a camera onto the scope, but I've not heard of using a camera tripod with an SC. Really? Would you do that? Why would you do that? Could you actually use the scope if you did?

jmb · #15 24-10-2009, 01:33 AM

one of the members of this forum does just that, on a solid camera tripod....

jmb · #16 24-10-2009, 01:42 AM

The C5 spotting scope will attach to any photographic tripod with a 1/4x20 ..... attach your 35mm SLR camera to the rear cell of your Celestron C5. ...
www.celestron.com/c3/images/.../1192143824_52291c5spotterx.pdf -

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #17 24-10-2009, 02:02 AM

jmb - please ignore fibob1977.

Dave

jmb · #18 24-10-2009, 02:07 AM

thank you, i dont know what is going on, i just want to get some advise from the experts here
maybe tomorrow'
thanks anyway

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #19 24-10-2009, 02:30 AM

OK Janine,

If you don't mind, a few questions?

1) What did you find hard about the dob? Was it purely the size?

2) what do you really want to view? moon? planets? nebulae? galaxies?

3) will you occasionally take the scope/mount out in a car to a darker night sky, away from the city lights, etc?

4) how much are you prepared to spend?

You have a few options, but none of them will be as good as your dob imho. Dobs are quite easy to use - no fancy mount to worry about, no alignment procedures to worry about, just point and go and have some fun viewing objects. 6" will show a reasonable amount of objects.

I'll be honest - the Skywatcher refractors are smaller, but you'll see less with them (smaller aperture). They are also a fair bit more pricier than your 6" dob, so inch for inch aperture wise, not as good value. They'll perform best on a proper German equatorial mount, but these aren't always that easy for someone to set up and use, especially if you want to keep it simple.

What I'd recommend is something like a Williams optics Zenithstar 80 II f6.8 ED doublet - small, compact, reasonably good optics. Not cheap @ $799 (http://www.andrewscom.com.au/site-co...liamoptics.htm) - scroll down till you find the Zenithstar. You could put this on a cheap alta-azimuth mount - it'll be smaller and lightweight than a German equatorial mount, and also cheaper. Downside - nowhere near as stable. Something like this:

https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=7343

That'd keep it under a grand. Optically it'll be quite good, it'll be portable, smallish, light and pretty easy to assemble and use at a whim.

I'd recommend a pair of binoculars too, as well as a basic book on stargazing. I'll have to dig around for what I think might be suitable to a newbie.

Hope this helps.

Dave

edit: added some more comments/thoughts to my post

adman (Adam) · #20 24-10-2009, 10:15 AM

Hi Janine,

there are a lot of different ways to get into this hobby, and none of them are the right way or the only way. What you have to find is your way.

When I started out I had a tiny 40mm Tasco refractor mounted on a tripod with a ball mount. I looked up, found something interesting and pointed the telescope in that direction. This kept me occupied for years - mostly because I didn't know any different.

From what I read above, you mostly look at whatever takes your interest - just point and go - is that right? There are other people who like to have an equatorial mount and spend time getting it polar aligned etc, and that is fine for them. But if you don't want that - that's OK too.

Davids advice above is good. That scope will show you plenty - not everything - but it doesn't sound like you want or need an all-singing, all-dancing setup at the moment. The tripod will keep it stable enough and allow you to follow what you are looking at with the hand controls. IF you grow out of that setup in the future - great - sell it and get something else. You could do a lot worse that the C5 on that tripod. So, run with it for a while and see where it takes you.

One thing though - get a red-dot finder for the C5 and spend some time getting it setup right. It will save you lots of time trying to get what you are after into the view of the C5 eyepiece.

Good Luck

Adam