What will you really see?

Trido (Justin) · #1 10-07-2008, 05:56 PM

Without access to close by star parties I have no idea what to expect when I delve into the observational side of astronomy. What I am wondering is what should I expect to see (And how much detail do you expect to see) out of standard 10x50 Binos, say an 80 or 105 mm refractor and all the way upto a 10 or 12" Dob?

I intend to buy all 3 eventually and was just going to go with the Dob and Binos, but it has made me wonder how much detail I'll really get because DSOs are a big part of what I am interested in, but it seems that even with a 12" Dob, you won't see much but fuzzy images of things such as M31. I never expected to resolve to individual stars obviously but I did kind of expect a bit more visual detail.

Anyone able to advise what I really should expect to be able to see inside our solar system and galaxy as well as outside of our galaxy?

PCH (Paul) · #2 10-07-2008, 06:18 PM

Hi, and welcome to IIS.

Well, you're right about one thing ! Even with a 12" dob you won't see all the beautiful coloured dso stuff you see in the photo section of IIS or magazines. Of course you could move in Astro Photography later to get this level of satisfaction.

But even for regular visual stuff, there's a great deal of satisfaction to be had by taking a look at all manner of heavenly bodies -(Pamela Anderson for example - they don't come more heavenly than that

).

Some things are absolutely stunning to view thru a large dob at good magnification - like Saturn, Jupiter, the moon. Other bodies are best viewed more wide angle - like clusters and nebs where you might wish to see the whole thing.

And then, just a pair of half decent binos are great too for just panning the sky and taking it all in. There's room for all levels of observing. Even those who are experienced, and may have plenty of money will usually choose to have binos and a couple of different scopes for different situations.

I'd close with saying that if dso's and seeing them in all their technicoloured glory is vitally important to you, then forget visual astronomy and concentrate on astro photography.

Just my 2c worth

Cheers,

Trido (Justin) · #3 10-07-2008, 07:14 PM

Thanks for that.

I knew colours just don't happen except for I guess the planets. I was just wondering what sort of detail you really get to see.

Ian Robinson · #4 10-07-2008, 07:19 PM

The binos are a good start .... lots of good stuff you can see with a nice pair of binos (not just good for stars and clusters and getting to know your way around the sky , you can also them to check out the chicks at the beach or spy on fishos from a handy headland) though I would look at 15x80 or 20x80 binos) as a great starter.

Skip the 80mm - 4" refractor and look at a good quality 10" dob (one with a good mirror cell and 2" focusor ... you can get a nice GEM for it later.

Trido (Justin) · #5 10-07-2008, 07:26 PM

How hard is it to mate a Dob with a GEM?

Babalyon 5 · #6 10-07-2008, 07:46 PM

Dunno, I give up! What do you get if you mate a dob with a gem?

What sort of telescope are you trying to breed??

Babalyon 5 · #7 10-07-2008, 07:51 PM

Seriously, a Dob is a reflector telescope mounted in a Dobsonian base. You just need a big enough GEM to carry it and use it correctly with the apprporiate cradle rings. A few guys here use 12in scopes mounted on EQ6 mounts. I use a 10in on a GEM.

Ian Robinson · #8 10-07-2008, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trido

How hard is it to mate a Dob with a GEM?

Easy if the mirror cell holds the mirror in place irrespective of the orientation of the tube or how it rotates. Some sling types don't .... DANGER!!!.

If the mirror cell is pretty basic ,and lots are, the mirror glued to a bit of plywood or particle-board, it'll be OK.
Better mirror cells give better support and better mirror ventilation.
If the mirror his held firmly in all orientations then all you need dovetail bar to suit the GEM and tube rings to hold the tube and hey presto dob becomes a equatorial (GEM) mounted newtonian and suddenly you can lots of cleavour things (like deep space imaging with exposures).

coldspace · #9 10-07-2008, 08:57 PM

Trido,
It depends on your light pollution. Out in a dark rural sky a 12 inch scope will give you great viewing of alot of things deep sky, but if you live in the city on moonless nights you will get awesome views of the solar system and some OK views of some various deep sky stuff. If you don't have the time to get into astro photography and you want awesome instant satisfaction of viewing deep sky from suburbia then get a Mallincam hyperplus colour video system. This camera has cemented my new addiction of astro viewing in real time. Full colour images of the brighter deep sky objects in as little as 7 seconds exposure. I was bored with my 12 inch scope chasing many deep sky objects in my light pollution in suburbia but with this magic eye my scope now performs more like a 60 inch scope!!!! can't wait to try it out in dark sky. Have fun with what ever you do.

Regards Matt.

jjjnettie (Jeanette) · #10 10-07-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trido

Without access to close by star parties I have no idea what to expect when I delve into the observational side of astronomy.

Trido,
You're in luck. At the end of this month you can go to Queensland Astrofest. Listed as one of the top 10 star parties in the world.
http://www.qldastrofest.org.au/
It's an easy drive from Brisbane, but the sky's are dark and some of the scopes are HUGE!

Quite a few members of IceInSpace will be going.
If you're considering buying a scope, this is the place to go to see a wide range of setups. The last Friday and Saturday nights are the biggest, and during the day, the biggest telescope retailers from across the country showcase their wares. Bring money!

psyche101 · #11 11-07-2008, 11:21 AM

I was suprised I do not seem to be able to resolve Jupiters GRS, I can make out bands, but my 10" Dob does not seem to show the planet much clearer than my 4". The Cassini division is only just visible. However, I did find the 10" to be an amazing deep sky experience. Rather than stronger magnification, I found larger apature to offer unparalleled clarity. But, that's probably just me, that's why I am in this section

Maybe you could look out for a local Astronomy club, I beleive most hire out scopes, that might help your desicion.

Trido (Justin) · #12 11-07-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyche101

Maybe you could look out for a local Astronomy club, I beleive most hire out scopes, that might help your desicion.

Sadly there are none located in the city I live in which is a big shame and what has stopped me from spending my money.

jjjnettie (Jeanette) · #13 11-07-2008, 08:53 PM

Where do you live Trido?

AlexN · #14 11-07-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyche101

I was suprised I do not seem to be able to resolve Jupiters GRS, I can make out bands, but my 10" Dob does not seem to show the planet much clearer than my 4". The Cassini division is only just visible.

There must be something wrong there??? cant see the GRS or clearly separate the cassini division... I can do both with my 8" from suburbia...

Trido: A 12" will give great views of nebulae/star clusters etc, and planetary views will be astounding.. When you are comfortable that you have a good understanding of what you want out of astronomy, then you can make the decision to take the 12" out of the dob base and plonking it on top of a GEM (I just did this today

)

ps. M31 is actually quite nice through a 12" scope.. from a dark site, M31 can be seen with unaided eyes.

Geoff45 (Geoff) · #15 11-07-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyche101

I was suprised I do not seem to be able to resolve Jupiters GRS, I can make out bands, but my 10" Dob does not seem to show the planet much clearer than my 4". The Cassini division is only just visible. However, I did find the 10" to be an amazing deep sky experience. Rather than stronger magnification, I found larger apature to offer unparalleled clarity. But, that's probably just me, that's why I am in this section

Maybe you could look out for a local Astronomy club, I beleive most hire out scopes, that might help your desicion.

With a 10" you should be able to see a large amount of detail in Jupiter´s cloud belts, not just make them out. However, for observing fine detail, collimation is extremely critical with a scope around f5, which I expect is your case.

AlexN · #16 12-07-2008, 12:01 AM

mm I was thinking collimation also.. I can quite clearly make out the GRS, the neb outbreak and a few other features, usually a bit of wavy detail in the neb/seb.. with a 10" i would only expect it to be better...

Trido (Justin) · #17 12-07-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

Where do you live Trido?

I am in Toowoomba. If anyone does know of any organisations that are based in Toowoomba, let me know. I am surprised because the Uni in Toowoomba offers Astronomy units and has a small obervatory located near Toowoomba.

jjjnettie (Jeanette) · #18 12-07-2008, 05:56 PM

We do have an other IIS member who lives in Toowoomba. Unfortunately I can't remember his name. I'll see if I can find out for you.

Still, you should take the drive down the hill and check out Astrofest. It's an experience you shouldn't miss out on.

AlexN · #19 12-07-2008, 06:07 PM

You should get great views out of a 10" - 12" in toowoomba...

For visual observing, I dont think you'll get as much enjoyment out of a 80 - 105mm refractor. From memory, light pollution in Toowoomba isnt anything like it is here in brissy, however, 80 - 105mm just isnt much aperture, and even from dark skies, spending equal money on a reflector vs refractor, the reflector will almost always give better views.. Of course, your budget is currently unknown to us.. A good 12" will come in at around 750 (12" GSO dob) price varies on brand/where you buy it from etc... A good 80mm refractor + mount will cost you closer to 1000 (based on ED80 + Motorized EQ5 @ Andrews)

Dollar for dollar, Its cheaper to get more light gathering power and more focal length in the 12" Dobsonian...

As for details, You can expect to see structure in some galaxies (depending on how sever your light pollution situation is) others will still be faint fuzzies... large/bright nebula (M8/M42 Eta-Carina) you can expect to see great detail from a 12" in a 80mm refractor, you will see them, but making out detail might not be the easiest task.. I get better views from my 8" dob than my 150mm refractor....

Also, If this is your first scope, the simplicity of a dobsonian mount is very important... Its simple as plonking down the base, sitting the reflector in it and pointing it at what you want to look at. With equatorial mounts, set the tripod, level the tripod, attach the head, set the altitude/azimuth settings.. futher adjust polar alignment then start thinking about observing.....

Or as I just experienced, set the tripod, level, adjust for fair polar align go inside, make coffee, go outside - see clouds, tear it all down again... Very frustrating... With a dob, had I seen clouds it would have been "oh well.." pick it up and take it back inside....

Simplicity is the key.

Trido (Justin) · #20 12-07-2008, 08:54 PM

Thanks so much for your input guys. Anything further would be appreciated! And I'll have to see if I can work in getting to Astrofest. It sounds like an amazing experience but I am rostered to work that weekend so we'll have to see. :/

*EDIT* The good thing about my location in Toowoomba is that I am on the side of a hill on the other side of the main light polluted areas so while I lose some sky on the north east horizon, I think it is worth it considering the excellent views I get and the lack of light pollution.