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Old 24-02-2011, 01:08 AM
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Zephod (Luke Williams)
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Looking to try my hand at Astrophotography

Hey all I've been an avid amateur since I was a young boy thanks to my father and am now feeling like trying my hand at Astrophotography and need some advice in terms of what telescope to upgrade to. I am currently still using my old Celestron Powerseeker 127 D 127mm Fl 1000mm F/8 as far as i've been told for astrophotography the focal length of a scope is more important correct?

The problem is i've been looking at the Skywatcher BD-200 Ota up until I relised the tube weight is probably a little much for my old German Equatorial mount with the 127mm and was wondering for decent photo's to start I was starting to look at either the 90mm Maksutov-Cassegrain it has a focal length of 1250mm but am thinking the aperture size is probably a little low. Then there is another I've been looking at as well (it's tough to decide haha) is the Skywatcher 130mm Reflector Catadioptric Newtonian design and 1000mm focal length now this has a motorised drive on it but the problem I have with deciding is they state it has a 1000mm focal length but it's specifications say otherwise:

-Diameter: 130mm
-Focal Length: 650mm
-F/ratio: f/5
-Diffraction-limited secondary mirror support
-Paraboloidal (parabolic) primary mirror
-Red Dot Finder for easy locating of celestial objects
-130mm primary mirror collects 30% more light than 114mm, revealing more space treasures with better resolution and brighter image.
-Smooth rack-and-pinion focuser
-Short focal length design, ideal for astrophotography.

Which would be the better option for a beginner to astrophotography the 90mm Maksutov-Cassegrain or the 130mm Skywatcher?

Optical DesignNewtonian Reflector(Parabolic)Lens Material Diameter130mmFocal Length650mmScondary Mirror Diameter34.5mmF/ratioF/5
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Old 24-02-2011, 01:49 AM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Hi Luke, and welcome to the Astrophotography money pit

Although it is good that you have gone into great detail describing the technical specs of the scope you are thinking about, it won't mean diddly-squat to any of us unless we know what objects you actually want to image.

Different objects work better with different scopes and to help you better we need to know if you intend to image the Moon and the Planets with a webcam style camera, or attack Nebulas with a DSLR or CCD camera, or go full Deep Sky Galaxy hunting.
Or maybe you just want to image Planetary Nebulas, or double stars.
You might be wanting to do Widefield, showing whole large areas like Rho Ophiucus, Orion, and Galaxy clusters and Galaxy fields, or super close ups of Galaxy cores, stellar Nurseries or tiny Planetary Nebulas.

Each one of these objects mentioned will work better within certain focal lengths, apertures, styles of scope (refractor, Reflector, Cassegrain, etc).

But in a nutshell, for a lot of Deep Space stuff, a pretty good all-rounder which many of us moved onto in our spiral down the dollar trap is the trusty old ED80 refractor.
It is probably the best 'general use' astrophotography tool under $1000.
Used with a DSLR it is an astrophotography beast.

Lunar/Planetary needs a different scope and different camera.

Please tell us what objects you will be wanting to image
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Old 24-02-2011, 11:42 AM
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Zephod (Luke Williams)
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Of course sorry got carried away myself with going over the specifications since it'll be my first time with astrophotography while learning the ropes of it planetary and lunar photography would be my starting point but would love to get into the DSO wide field photography nebulars galaxy's and the like too. Alot of the amateur photo's I've seen are amazing and would love to try my hand at photographing similar I have a samsung dslr already it's just a matter of figuring out which telescope would be a sound buy for starting off in astrophotography.
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Old 24-02-2011, 02:11 PM
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my humble rig is:Vixen ED80HEQ Pro 5 mountQHY5 guide camerafinerscope adapted to take guide camall bought here secondhand and works a treatthink I got scope and mount for about $1200-$1500 some years ago (was a good price I thought). The other bits have recently been added. QHY5 about $100 and $50 for the finderscope.Not the flashed setup but a very respectable entry level arrangement.niko
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Old 24-02-2011, 02:44 PM
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renormalised (Carl)
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Hi Luke, and just like Ken said, welcome to the bottomless money pit of Astrophotography

The problem with the hobby is that, like Ken mentioned, there is no one scope which does it all. If you're looking at lunar and planetary pics, then the best scope to buy would be one with a reasonably long(ish) F ratio, say F8-F10, which will allow you to image the planets with a large enough image scale that you can actually see anything (planets are small targets, despite being close by, relatively speaking). The downside of the long FL/F ratio is that the brightness (contrast) of the images drops as you have a narrower FoV (Field of View) and hence less photons entering the optics of your scope. To compensate, you need a slightly larger set of optics to gather more light. With a F ratio of around F10, a good size would be around 8-10 inches...your stock standard Meade or similar SCT's would fit this bill. This scope is also very good for most DSO, but you have to remember that objects that are large in size, like Andromeda, M42, M45 etc etc, will fill or even overflow your FoV at low powers in these scopes, but your image resolution will be excellent for those parts you can see without having to pan across the object.

For most large nebulae and the big galaxies, a scope with a moderate to fast F ratio is best, say F4-F6 (or slightly more). These scopes have a correspondingly wider FoV than the other scopes and allow more light per inch of aperture to enter their optics. However, the image scale is smaller than for the slower F ratio scopes, so objects which appear large in the slower scopes will be smaller in the faster ones. A good example of one of these types of scopes would be a 80mm ED refractor at F6-F7.5 or a reflector of any reasonable size (at around F4-F6). The saving grace of the reflector is that for a similar cost to a good refractor, you can buy a scope of much larger aperture with a similar F ratio, so you have a fast scope, with a good FoV that also has considerable light gathering capacity. For example, for the cost of an average ED80 (like a Skywatcher BDED80), you could buy 2 Skywatcher 10" reflectors (OTA's = optical tube assemblies).

However, the most important thing, even for a beginner, is to have a good steady mount. Without one, it will be a litany of frustrations, one after another, trying to get good piccies. Especially when it comes to DSO, where most targets will require exposures of longer than a minute or two. Not only do you need a good solid mount, you also need one with the ability to track your targets in sync with the Earth's rotation. This is where EQ (equatorial) mounts have the advantage. They can track a target in sync with the Earth's rotation (especially where motor driven) and allow you to take long exposures. Depending on the weight of your equipment, your mount should be able to comfortably carry the weight, dampen any vibrations and have accurate tracking capabilities. Even with smaller scopes, having a good solid mount is paramount. A good start would a Skywatcher EQ6 (or even a HEQ5), which can carry a 20kg payload, although it wouldn't be advisable to load it up to that weight.

Then you have your choice of imagers...and here also, the sky's the limit. It all depends on what you want to do. Planets and lunar pics, you can get away with using a webcam or one of the smaller, cheaper CCD cameras. For DSO's, I've seen some pretty good results from webcams, video cameras etc, but to really do things justice a good CCD or DSLR camera is your best option. Here, what you choose depends on price and capabilities...even what brand you like Some are better than others, but you pay the price for what you get. State of the Art equipment can cost up to many thousands of dollars and is not really a good place to start for someone just dipping their toes into the water for the first time. But a good example of a CCD camera that's not too dear and will suffice even more experienced users is an Atik 314L+. Nothing complicated about it and it takes great piccies. Or, you could go the DSLR route and grab yourself a camera like a Canon 400 or 350D. You can take piccies with the stock standard camera, but the red response is not so great, so most people modify their cameras for astropics by removing the UV/IR filter in the camera. This gives a better red response, for DSO's, but you need a separate IR filter if you're also going to use it of a day. You can also mod these cameras for cooling as well, but that all costs extra .

So, I hope that gives you an idea of what you need and what you're going to be getting into. What I have told you is just the basics, there's a lot more to learn about and no matter how long you do this hobby for, you're always learning something new about it.
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Old 24-02-2011, 04:13 PM
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Zephod (Luke Williams)
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Afternoon tea break haha, thanks for the in depth info carl in the next two months or so am planning on slowly getting everything together to start at least on the starter info. I'll more then likely head out to the Macarthur Astronomical Society too for pointers as well since they're my local society.

I definitely think ill invest in a newer mount plus maybe a OTA looks like its the route to go thanks then its a matter of grabbing a decent dslr currently have a DSC Samsung S750 but doubt that will be of any help except for maybe Lunar & Planetary Afocal shots?
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Old 24-02-2011, 04:37 PM
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renormalised (Carl)
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Just had a look at your scope....you may have to mod it a bit (change the focuser etc), but that would make a good little scope Stick it on a HEQ5 mount with a SW Equinox 66mm guidescope and a Starshoot guider, then clamp a CCD to the main scope (the Atik would be perfect), top it off with a laptop to control it all and you'd have a good little setup
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:03 PM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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and sorry to throw another dampener into it Luke, but DSLR's and happy snap cameras etc aren't very good at Lunar/Planetary imaging.

They will take pics but to get a good image you need lots of frames stacked together and that's where cameras like webcams, Toucams, Neximage, Meade LPI, etc come into it. They take video and you stack all the video frames together.

Your DSC Samsung S750 is ok to start doing some afocal, but you will need to step up to something suited to astro work.

Keep asking questions
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:19 PM
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Lunar and planetary imaging...go here...

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=70573

Grab one of these. Peter is getting another batch fairly soon as a few people are interested in grabbing one. I picked up one only fairly recently. Good value for money
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:32 PM
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Zephod (Luke Williams)
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Cant' express how grateful I am for the helpful advice Ken and Carl cheers yeah I'd rather step up the plate from the standard ill keep an eye out for the Toucam definitely.
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:33 PM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renormalised View Post
Lunar and planetary imaging...go here...

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=70573

Grab one of these. Peter is getting another batch fairly soon as a few people are interested in grabbing one. I picked up one only fairly recently. Good value for money
Carl, they are modified for Long Exposure Deep Space imaging

but by switching off the mod they are excellent planetary cameras.
Best of both worlds in one camera

and when people step up to a better Deep Space camera the modded Toucam (SPC900NC) make fantastic guiding cameras
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:34 PM
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renormalised (Carl)
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Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballaratdragons View Post
Carl, they are modified for Long Exposure Deep Space imaging

but by switching off the mod they are excellent planetary cameras.
Best of both worlds in one camera

and when people step up to a better Deep Space camera the modded Toucam (SPC900NC) make fantastic guiding cameras
That's why I suggested it
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:42 PM
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ballaratdragons (Ken)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renormalised View Post
That's why I suggested it
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Old 24-02-2011, 06:57 PM
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Zephod (Luke Williams)
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Ok so in a pinch with a few parts upgraded to my 5" it'd be sufficient to start with? Would a EQ3 Pro mount be the best option for my current scope too? Or I should just save my dollars for the EQ5 Mount with a 8 or 10" OTA?
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Old 24-02-2011, 07:14 PM
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renormalised (Carl)
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HEQ5 mount with your current scope and later with an 8" OTA. A 10" is getting a little to awkward for an HEQ5....better with an EQ6 for such a large OTA. Even the 8" would be better balanced on an EQ6, especially for astrophotography. The extra carrying capacity of the larger mount will help with stability.
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Old 24-02-2011, 07:23 PM
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Zephod (Luke Williams)
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Excellent at least now I know where to focus my funds now thanks a million Carl.
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