Go Back   IceInSpace > Beginners Start Here > Beginners Talk
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.
  #1  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:35 AM
Tom Summers (Tom)
Registered User

Tom Summers is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Everton Hills,Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 18
Telescope making

The idea of making my own telescope has gained a lot of appeal over the last few weeks. Started thinking of a Dob but then thought about a refractor. I already own a little 5" refractor which is quite good. Would like advice on size limits for the starter telescope maker, Dob or refractor, thought about 12" for the dob and 8 or 10" for refractor. Is this shooting too high??
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-06-2010, 10:26 AM
mental4astro's Avatar
mental4astro (Alexander)
kids+wife+scopes=happyman

mental4astro is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: sydney, australia
Posts: 4,979
Hi Tom,

Nothing wrong with a 12" scope as your first. My first DIY was a 10", and I've just finished a 17.5". Another IIS member, Hickny, is working on his first too, a rebuild of a 13.1".

There is one book that you should read before you start though:

"the Dobsonian Telescope, a practical manual for building large apeture telescopes" by Berry and Kriege.

It will explain how and why a dob works, along with the materials, formulae, ideas, etc. You can get it new form Bintel and a couple of other retailers, or you might want to post a 'wanted' ad for someone's.

Though a little dated in the design aspect, every single dob that works, no matter what it looks like, obeys the same principle spelt out in this incredible book. Where it is thier 8 pole truss scope, or down to a single pole beauty, they all work the way they should only if the mechanics are obeyed- you can't run away from physics.

Here in Oz, very, very few people make their own optics. Most either purchase the optics and maybe a few of the other bits and pieces. Other than the optics, it's upto you just how much of the scope you'd like to make. Others purchase a secondhand scope and rebuild it, like Hickny, and myself with the 17.5".

Hickny and I, once his scope is done, will look into building a 12" together. I've picked up a 12" solid tube scope, and we'll get onto its redesign soon. The scope building bug has bitten really, really hard!

Here is a link to a very good ATM resource for components and inspiration. Have a squiz:

http://stellafane.org/misc/links.html

Half the fun in making the scope is coming up with its design and planning out. This is the only thing I'll suggest you do- take your time with the design and planning. It will leave less to chance and reduces errors. The planning and design stage of my big scope to close to a year. Building happened over 4 months, between family and work, with one month nothing being done.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-06-2010, 11:12 AM
astro744
Registered User

astro744 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,244
If you are buying the optics complete then build as big as you want to lug around. However if you are thinking of grinding, polishing and figuring your own mirror then I would highly recommend starting with an 8" f7 as your first telescope mirror.

Many hours go into grinding and polishing and the smaller mirrors can be easier (at least quicker) to correct if you get it wrong. It is very easy to get it wrong but also very satisfying to see a nice Foucault, Ronchi and star test when you to get it right. The skills you will learn with your smaller mirror can then be applied to a larger mirror to some degree if you feel you want to make larger one.

Willmann Bell sell mirror kits with everything you need. An 8" mirror is normally ground with an 8" tool. The larger mirrors also require smaller tools to correct for localised errors although there are many different techniques.

Have a look at http://www.willbell.com/tm/index.htm for books. If you are doing your own mirror I highly recommend Texereau and Leclaire.

For mirror kits look at http://www.willbell.com/ATMSupplies/ATM_Supplies.htm

If you want to build a large truss Dob then Kriege & Berry's book is excellent but Berry's own book is quite good for tube designs of various sizes.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-06-2010, 05:03 PM
DavidTrap's Avatar
DavidTrap (David)
Really just a beginner

DavidTrap is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,033
Can I suggest you talk to some of the Astronomy Associations in Brisbane for advice. I've never built a scope and would never have that patience, but here are a couple of comments I can repeat from chats with older and wiser club members:

It's probably faster to grind a small mirror and then do a larger mirror, than to start with larger mirror because of the learning curve (as Astro744 said!)

You have to grind and figure only one optical surface for a reflecting telescope. You have to figure both sides of any lens you make for a refractor - lot more work.

Also, have a search in the refractor section of Cloudy Nights. Everything's bigger in America and there are some monster refractors there - they might just scare you a bit, especially when you consider the mount required to hold them steady!

DT
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-06-2010, 09:32 AM
astro744
Registered User

astro744 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidTrap View Post
You have to grind and figure only one optical surface for a reflecting telescope. You have to figure both sides of any lens you make for a refractor - lot more work.
DT
Very true and for a crown/flint doublet that equates to 4 surfaces with different radii of curvature. A good reference is 'Telescope Optics, Evaluation and Design by Harrie Rutten and Martin van Venrooij, published by Willmann Bell. In fact http://www.willbell.com/ has an entire section devoted to telescope making and optics. Some books have optional software for optical design available too. If your order direct from the publisher get the software at the same time otherwise the double freight will be excessive. BINTEL have a wide range of Willmann Bell books on their shelves too.

Last edited by astro744; 05-06-2010 at 04:44 PM. Reason: Typo corrected
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-06-2010, 01:51 PM
Saturnine (Jeff)
Registered User

Saturnine is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Wollongong
Posts: 2,140
Hi Tom

As others have said, there is much pleasure in building your own telescope, if you don't want to push glass yet but purchase finished optics and build your tube and mount around it , there are suppliers of refractor objectives and mirrors aplenty. Here in Oz, Mathew Lovell of Telescopes and Astronomy, in South Aust. as well as others I'm sure, can supply all your mirror making needs as well as finished mirrors and refractor lens.
With the price of GSO / Skywatcher type scopes these days , there isn't much cost saving in making your own ( just satisfaction ) unless you want to make your scope to more demanding specifications, mirrors of better than 1/10 PV , lens of better than 1/ 6 PV ( on all 4 surfaces for a doublet ) and achieving a Strehl ratio of 0.9 or better, 0.95 is almost as good as you can get.
Most of the books mentioned by others will explain what is required in the polishing an figuring of the lens or mirror to achieve an acceptable outcome for performance under the stars. Whatever course you decide to take, enjoy the ride and don.t rush, take your time , near perfection only takes a little more patience to achieve.

Happy ATMing

Jeff
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-06-2010, 02:14 PM
mercedes_sl1970
Registered User

mercedes_sl1970 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Summers View Post
The idea of making my own telescope has gained a lot of appeal over the last few weeks. Started thinking of a Dob but then thought about a refractor. I already own a little 5" refractor which is quite good. Would like advice on size limits for the starter telescope maker, Dob or refractor, thought about 12" for the dob and 8 or 10" for refractor. Is this shooting too high??
Tom
Hi Tom

I like how you say "I already own a little 5" refractor" - some would call that quite a reasonable size! I just made a 4" f13 with a lens cell I bought off a bloke on CloudyNights.com. It was fun to make and seems to work quite well.

As a few others have said, if you are going up to 8" or 10" for a refractor you will need a fairly hefty mount. They are big scopes, but no doubt would be terrific to use.

And, on the dobsonian side - you can have a lot of fun making something to just suit your needs. There are quite a few inspirational examples here at IIS, on CloudyNights and also on the Stellafane site which spurred me on to make an 8" dob a while ago using a secondhand Guan Sheng mirror. Oh yes, mirrors seem to have come down a fair bit in price over the last few years if you just want to buy one already complete - have to say that making a mirror or even a refractor lens is probably well beyond my patience, and skill.

Good luck (sorry about the ramble).

Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-06-2010, 03:38 PM
GrahamL's Avatar
GrahamL
pro lumen

GrahamL is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ballina
Posts: 3,264
8" / 10 " refractors DIY or not are very much a specialty Instrument
and can get a little pricey even before you mount them on something
http://apmamerica.com/index.php?main...products_id=38

A 12 " dob is a great step up from the 5" and very doable with some pretty basic mechanical skills and is very much made to your specs .


Yes its not always cheaper to build , but it can be fairly competitive
if you do a lot more yourself .

My 12" truss probably ran at about $1300 finished and waiting for a primary mirror and argo navis. The break down went.

second hand p/star secondary $100
new pstar spider to suit $240
moonlite connecters $300
10000 tic encoders $180
primary cell $35
encoder mounting gear $10
kineoptics focuser $110
ply ac pine $150
truss poles $25
paint ,screws ,band aids $80
bits n pieces the rest

The spider and connecters @ $540 could sure save some dollars
off this amount if you wanted to do something yourself.. On a dollar basis I'm pretty sure you could custom build a scope for not a great deal more than the $ 1200 or so the collapsable ones sell for includeing a
cheap asian primary $650.

best wishes to you if you decide to go down this most rewarding road
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-06-2010, 03:23 PM
Tom Summers (Tom)
Registered User

Tom Summers is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Everton Hills,Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 18
telescope making

Thanks to all you guys for your help, tips and advice, now its up to me.
regards,
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-04-2011, 05:06 AM
BCASTreadway (Monica)
Registered User

BCASTreadway is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Montrose CO USA
Posts: 2
Build a 10" dob truss scope

27 years of showing the public the night sky has worn out my sonotube dob. I have an excellent 10 inch mirror and want to bulid a truss tube scope for it. Where can I purchase the plans to build it? can you help me? Retired and 79 years of age, I will have some help from my amateur society. Thanks so much. Monica
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-04-2011, 09:39 AM
astroron's Avatar
astroron (Ron)
Supernova Searcher

astroron is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Cambroon Queensland Australia
Posts: 9,315
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCASTreadway View Post
27 years of showing the public the night sky has worn out my sonotube dob. I have an excellent 10 inch mirror and want to bulid a truss tube scope for it. Where can I purchase the plans to build it? can you help me? Retired and 79 years of age, I will have some help from my amateur society. Thanks so much. Monica
Hi Monicaand to iceinspace
try this book
http://www.willbell.com/tm/dobtel.htm by Dave Kriege,I used it to build my 16" truss dob
I hope this helps
cheers
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 25-04-2011, 12:43 AM
AstroJunk's Avatar
AstroJunk (Jonathan)
Shadow Chaser

AstroJunk is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Moonee Beach
Posts: 1,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Summers View Post
Thanks to all you guys for your help, tips and advice, now its up to me.
regards,
Tom
It certainly is!

I have made a few mirrors and it is an interesting endeavour. I found that 8 or 9 inch mirrors were easiest to grind by hand. Six inchers were just too little for my hands.

Nowadays I concentrate on using exquisite optics made by those who are far better at it than I ever was!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 08:42 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement