I'll be relocating to Sydney in a few months and seek any advice on where to live...I'll be commuting into the CBD but would prefer to live out in a suburb where back yard astronomy isn't too challenging. Life is a balance
I currently live out on the outskirts of London with NLM of 4.0, 4.3 on a good night (2 of those in 3 years ), so anything equal to better than that preferable. I make occasional trips out to the country with guys here, and would be happy to do the same from my future home, but I'd prefer it not to be a lost cause for the brighter DSOs.
Any suggestions, ideas, recommendations of where - and just as importantly, where not - to start looking much appreciated!
Also, if anyone could set my expectations with regards to general observing conditions, frequency, etc in that part of the world that'd be a bonus!
The below map (posted by Gak) is a few years old now but it should give an idea of what you are looking for.
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Originally Posted by gak
Colours correspond to ratios between the artificial sky brightness and the natural sky brightness of: <0.01 (black), 0.01-0.11 (dark-gray), 0.11-0.33 (blue), 0.33-1 (green), 1-3 (yellow), 3-9 (orange), 9-27 (red), <27 (white).
There are probably more around. Try to google "light pollution Sydney"
I live just west of The Entrance on the map. It is about 75 minutes north of Sydney CBD (excluding traffic peak times). Fast train = 90 minutes to CBD centre.
I get some good results in the backyard quite often.
Check the "Star Parties..." forum for some local observing sites around Sydney.
We go to Mangrove Mountain (aka: Pony Club) which is about as good as it gets within 1.5 hours of Sydney. It is South West of me (North West of Sydney). It might be ideal - But it is (very) not handy to Public Transport.
I hear there is a good spot out Katoomba way, West of Sydney, also about 90+ minutes drive from Sydney.
Hope this helps, at least as a starter for you.
Good Luck.
Keep us posted.
Hope to meet you soon.
Welcome Dunk , I suppose anyting will be better than London's LP .
What scope will you be looking to use ? that can make a differance in LP skies .
I dont have to worry living only 25km from some of the darkest skies in the world here in Northern Territory .. .
Hope to haer from you soon ..
Brian.
Dunk, there are quite a few IISers live in the northwest of Sydney - the area around the Baulkham Hills label on the map. I can think of at least five within 10km of me. I'm only one house removed from a busy road and got an SQM reading of 19.44 at the zenith two nights ago. ASNSW's Crago observatory is about 45 min drive away.
There are a couple of drawbacks:
1. transport to the CBD is not ideal. Either bus, or drive to rail or to the city.
2. it isn't a cheap place to live.
If you go further north or west it gets darker but owning your own vehicle becomes essential.
Thanks for the welcome chaps, I look forward to meeting up, under a very different sky than I'm used to! I'm sure it's going to be quite an adventure once the life move and associated stresses are all out of the way.
I visited a friend out in Castle Hill a few years back but the holiday memories somewhat blur the reality... I have no accurate recollection how long it took to drive into the CBD from there (off-peak) or even how dark it was but I do remember the look and feel, so that's probably where we'll start looking. It's possible that I'll be able to work from the office in the western 'burbs, but I won't know until I hit the ground.
How bad is the traffic along the M2? Currently I commute for 20km and if I don't leave before 7am it takes me 45-75 minutes, very unpredictable. I'd like to get a feel for what Sydney commuters deem bad. We're used to the other negatives of living around a large city, congestion, noise, cost, etc. We'll be bringing our cars with us, eventually. Luckily we drive on the same side of the road
If the sky is any better than here, I'll not be disappointed I'm sure. Truly dark skies are nearly impossible to find over here. I have a C8 and C11, the latter doesn't get out much here because it's usually clouded over by the time I get it setup Is there anything climate-wise I should consider? Is it more humid around Sydney than the UK - almost unimaginable in my mind, but I haven't stumbled across any good weather statistics yet.
I visited a friend out in Castle Hill a few years back but the holiday memories somewhat blur the reality... I have no accurate recollection how long it took to drive into the CBD from there (off-peak) or even how dark it was but I do remember the look and feel, so that's probably where we'll start looking. It's possible that I'll be able to work from the office in the western 'burbs, but I won't know until I hit the ground.
There is very little open space left around here and Sydney keeps expanding to the northwest. When I was growing up (many years ago) and less than 1km away, the block where I live now was market gardens and my grandmother owned the land where the council chambers are now.
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How bad is the traffic along the M2? Currently I commute for 20km and if I don't leave before 7am it takes me 45-75 minutes, very unpredictable. I'd like to get a feel for what Sydney commuters deem bad. We're used to the other negatives of living around a large city, congestion, noise, cost, etc. We'll be bringing our cars with us, eventually. Luckily we drive on the same side of the road
The M2 has been an absolute nightmare for a couple of years while they have been widening it. That is supposed to end in a couple of months so we'll find out then if they have done more than just move the traffic jams. I'd still expect 45-75 minutes to the CBD for business hours.
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If the sky is any better than here, I'll not be disappointed I'm sure. Truly dark skies are nearly impossible to find over here. I have a C8 and C11, the latter doesn't get out much here because it's usually clouded over by the time I get it setup Is there anything climate-wise I should consider? Is it more humid around Sydney than the UK - almost unimaginable in my mind, but I haven't stumbled across any good weather statistics yet.
Define humid. So far this year it has been either 10-% when the weather was coming from the west and whipping up bushfires, or 90+% and very unpleasant with the A/C off. It will improve as we get into autumn.
The below map (posted by Gak) is a few years old now but it should give an idea of what you are looking for.
That's a great map Allan, I missed the OP so thanks.
Dunk,
We're very friendly to poms, except during the cricket season. Looking at the map it's pretty obvious that the further west the better. [Boorowa is a nice little place but the commute is a bit long.] If you are working in the CBD I'd seriously look at the prospects of using public transport. Certainly from Wollongong the train takes no longer than the car - less during the day - and then you don't have to park it. It's also cheaper, especially once you factor in parking fees. However if you are not in the CBD and have to change trains (or to a bus) public transport becomes slow. If you want to go down that track (pardon the pun) you need to look at the location of stations and the timetable.
I live in Wollongong in that little red patch and that is not the place to be. However the situation is better in the (somewhat pricey) northern suburbs and all the express trains stop at Thirroul. From there travel times to the CBD are similar to the times from Penrith. The plus side of living on the coast is that we get less extreme temperatures. True, on the two recent heatwave days where everyone was baked by the hot gale-force wind Wollongong was no better off, but on your average hot summer day it is >5 degrees cooler here than in western Sydney. On the other hand it is much cloudier here. Queensland has the Gold Coast and the Sunshine Coast and somewhere else is called the Sapphire Coast. I've christened Wollongong as the Cloud Coast. The escarpment behind Wollongong that helps generate that cooling sea-breeze also generates cloud. You wil still get more clear skies than in the old dart but less than western Sydney. It's a trade-off. Oh, and Wollongong is prettier than western Sydney IMHO.
Thanks for the feedback chaps, all much appreciated! A very good (Aussie) friend of mine over here is partly responsible for encouraging us to seize the opportunity that was presented. Just don't talk to me about cricket...what's with all wearing white seriously, never really understood that game, maybe you guys can educate me...
Anyhow, relative humidity, as quoted by the Met office is frequently around 90% here, and both a dew shield and a heater strip on full blast are drafted in to fight for a session, but usually lose after a couple of hours. This country lives up to its reputation for rain and, worse, cloud....or at least has the past couple of years. As a result, if I get one or two sessions in a month I consider it lucky. My last session was January 4th, hoping for one tonight, if the forecast holds up (usually doesn't!)
With respect to the weather, was mostly wondering if the humidity was worse than here (not sure that's even possible!) to determine if I should sell my scopes here and reinvest in something suitable once settled
Sounds like I need to start looking midway along the north suburbs then and see what I find. Would Aussies think it an odd thing to make a viewing of a property after dark?
Welcome to ISS.
Transport in Sydney is always a bit of an issue especially if you want some dark skies. Anywhere within 20-30Km of the CBD will have bad light pollution-that's a given. I live about 30-40 minutes from work during rush hour and its pretty washed out LP wise. No problem for looking at the moon and planets though. For darkish skies I head out about an hour from Sydney at the weekends. For true dark skies (very dark) its a 2-3 hour drive at the weekends.
For the CBD its worth looking at being near public transport as traffic is horrendous (never mind the toll roads and parking charges). Castlehill is nice, with express bus services to the CBD during rush hour or you can get the bus to Pennant hills train station and into the CBD from there. How close to the city you want to live depends on your budget -its an expensive city.
Suggest you start with a map of Sydney - maps.google.com will do nicely, plus that earlier map showing the light pollution.
The basic problem you face is a tradeoff decision between:
- reasonable commuting by train (preferred) or bus (second best),
- light pollution;
- lifestyle (and desirability);
- cost.
I'd suggest you don't make any decisions until you have had time to study the issues first hand for several months. For example, think about the trips you make most frequently (work, shopping, recreation) and actually try making these trips on average days to/from a location you are considering.
Cities here are far larger sprawls than in the UK. For many the sheer size of Sydney leads to the decision that until we can retire to the country, there is no satisfactory solution and instead observing is limited to
- portable gear which can be taken to a dark site on Saturday nights (1-2 hour drive depending on where home is), plus the odd other night if its really exceptional or there is something special to watch, or
- joining a society with facilities in the country that you can use,
- if you can afford it, a weekender in the mountains west of Sydney with the gear set up there.
Note that teaming up with a good friend with similar interests can help significantly if you share the transport.
In the orange zone of the map, that means 2-3 magnitudes of light pollution. Red equates to 3+ magnitudes of light pollution, 4-4.5 magnitudes in the CBD of Sydney (between Central and North Sydney). Yellow on the map equates to 1-2 magnitudes.
To get an idea of the time to commute by train, the timetables are here: http://www.cityrail.info Add to this the time to get to/from the station at each end. Many stations have a carpark and it is quite common for people to own a cheap old car to leave at the station during the day, though this adds to the cost of living and should be traded against the cost of living close enough to not need a second car for this purpose.
I should add that the traffic in Sydney is very slow on a good day and appalling on a bad one - no quicker than train travel on a good day and quite possibly slower on a bad day - and there are some areas to avoid like the plague if you choose to drive such as Macquarie Park (which is gridlocked for 1-2 hours most days).
Thanks, trying to take it all on board, I'm sure it'll be easier once I'm on the ground, but by then it's already too late...or we leave house hunting until we arrive oh I will be popular with that option!
Good advice above.
I live in the northwestern suburbs, near Castle Hill and Dural. If you are able to work in the western suburbs you will find your commute easier than going to the CBD. Although Aussies love their cars, morning and evening peak hours on the radial motorways resemble longitudinal carparks, and then you have to have prebooked/expensive parking when you eventually get there. From my area, the railway from Pennant Hills/Thornleigh or express busses from Dural or Pennant Hills are cheaper and quicker to the CBD. It is easier by car if you work in Parramatta or points west as you are travelling, in the main, against the traffic.
The astronomical outlook from my area is better as the relatively darker sites are closer.The Sydney Northwest Astro Group is only 5 minutes away from me, with "darkness" about as good as you'll get in the metro area and a darker site about 30 minutes further out at Maroota.
Down sides of the "leafy northwest" are the higher house rents and longer commute times to the city. Upsides are less air and light pollution, less neighbourhood crime than the southwest and SNAG.(see above).
Keep in touch.
Even from very light polluted Cherrybrook you can still do some deep sky stuff.
This was taken from my backyard (stack of 22 frames) with a 50mm lens Canon 450D and no filters
Check Helensburgh area in the Nat Park area south of Syd, between there and Wollongong. Should be about as good as it gets close to a city and commute is in the 40min slot (or less on the express)
Sounds promising chaps! How many nights a month would be good enough for observing, on average?
I've been trying to keep an eye on the forecast but its been crazy at work believe it or not, we actually had a clear night here this week, first time I'd been out with the scope in a couple of months (seriously!), the weather has been especially poor here this winter
Oh and another quick question - is there any astro gear that (against all the odds) would be cheaper to get here before the move rather than wait and buy in Australia?
Oh and another quick question - is there any astro gear that (against all the odds) would be cheaper to get here before the move rather than wait and buy in Australia?
My advice is to bring everything you need with you (if its costly stuff). Its cheaper in the UK. However you may have to declare it to customs if you have owned it less than 12 months. I was in the same situation as you are about three year ago when I made the move (first to Melbourne and then moved up to Sydney). I took all my astro gear with me.
Make sure you insure it well during transit and use a good removal company. I had no problems-didn't even need to collimate the two SCT's I shipped over when they finally arrived. Takes about 10 weeks to get here and clear customs and quarantine.
Hi Dunk, Sydney weather is very dependent on long term cycles:
- el niņo, hot dry years in which 90% of nights will be reasonably cloud-free,
This can persist for 7 years at a stretch and rainfall is low (drought).
- la Nina, cool wet years, in which you might have 2-3 good clear observing nights in a month, not to mention high rainfall.
We've had la Nina for 2 years and it looks like being a third (Feb has been terrible). Last year I think we had only 2 good Saturday nights in the blue mountains around New Moon
We had a stretch in 1989-91 where it rained without fail every weekend in a row for 18 months. At that time I was so annoyed I got rid of all my Astro gear in order to do something else.
But can swing the other way, the early 1980's and 2000's were drought times with clear blue skies night after night...
), so anything equal to better than that preferable. I make occasional trips out to the country with guys here, and would be happy to do the same from my future home, but I'd prefer it not to be a lost cause for the brighter DSOs.
Welcome Dunk , I suppose anyting will be better than London's LP . 
.
but I do remember the look and feel, so that's probably where we'll start looking. It's possible that I'll be able to work from the office in the western 'burbs, but I won't know until I hit the ground.
Looking at the map it's pretty obvious that the further west the better. [Boorowa is a nice little place but the commute is a bit long.] If you are working in the CBD I'd seriously look at the prospects of using public transport. Certainly from Wollongong the train takes no longer than the car - less during the day - and then you don't have to park it. It's also cheaper, especially once you factor in parking fees. However if you are not in the CBD and have to change trains (or to a bus) public transport becomes slow. If you want to go down that track (pardon the pun) you need to look at the location of stations and the timetable.
oh I will be popular with that option!
believe it or not, we actually had a clear night here this week, first time I'd been out with the scope in a couple of months (seriously!), the weather has been especially poor here this winter 
