1st night with EQ6- not so good

[DJDD]

hey all,

second clear night in over a week so thought i would take out my new EQ6Pro and ED80 and have a go at observing before even starting to try to take photos.

it was a bit of a disaster...

1. balanced the ED80+guidescope+finderscope+barlow+ lens and the counterweights whilst inside. disassembled the mount and scopes, moving the tripod outside.
2. I think i had the mount aligned to the South (used a piece of wood across the two back legs and rotated 11-12 degrees to the east.
3. set up the tripod to a convenient height.
4. reassembled.
5. waited until dark.
6. turned on mount and tried to do a 1-star alignment on Rigel.

This is where it went wrong. It seemed that the telescope was pointing too low and too easterly, and fine tuning with the arrow keys was just not going to get there.

7. Thought I would reset to the Home position by Parking the telescope. well, "Home" did not seem to be near the position i started in, and thought of as home.

8. Tried a 1-star alignment on Achenar. Again, the telescope pointed too low and a bit too easterly.

anyway, that's where i ended for the night.

So, questions:

A. is it possible to reset the Home position?

B. is there someone in Melbourne with an EQ6Pro (and maybe with a refractor, although not absolutely necessary) that may be able to assist me/give me some tips on getting the mount set up?
Is there a club night soon or perhaps I could visit someone/somewhere to view someone's setup? This may be a bit of a big ask... anyway, I live in Highett.

In the end it may be that I just need to balance everything better and get the mount aligned to the South more accurately.

thanks for taking the time to read this post...

any help is appreciated...

DJDD

[xelasnave]

Hide the axe.
Frustrating eh.. dont let that stop you still have a look around and see if you can find stuff without goto.
Sorry I cant help otherwise,
I dont use goto... I know where stuff is so I dont bother with it...I got the mount for just tracking..and on that note did you know you have to make it track??? go into setup and scoll until you get to tracking press enter and then press again and it starts to work.
Before I worked that out I was very unhappy with the mount first time out, could not figure why all the trails...


alex...

[monoxide]

try sending the mount to its home position using the hand controller then undo the clutches and move it to where it should be and try aligning again

[Terry B]

One way to hone the home position is to attempt a 1 star alignment. Don't use the keys but release the clutches to centre the star. Then tell the mount to park. This will take it back to what it thinks is the home position. Turn it off and start again for a 3 star alignment. It should be much closer with the first star.
Make sure that you have the correct time, time zone and date registered with the hand controller. I found that it didn't always pick up the correct time zone even when it had been entered.
Good luck.

[Kal (Andrew)]

Did you try to do a quick drift align? If not then now is a good time to start practicing After a couple of goes you can get the whole process down to about 10-15 minutes (unless you want super accuracy). A quick drift align will ensure that you have the correct declination setting and your azimuth is pointing straight to the celestial pole.

[Terry B]

Originally Posted by Kal

Did you try to do a quick drift align? If not then now is a good time to start practicing After a couple of goes you can get the whole process down to about 10-15 minutes (unless you want super accuracy). A quick drift align will ensure that you have the correct declination setting and your azimuth is pointing straight to the celestial pole.

The problem with this is that the mount needs at least a 1 star alignment before it will track to do a drift align.

[Zuts]

Originally Posted by Terry B

The problem with this is that the mount needs at least a 1 star alignment before it will track to do a drift align.

Hi,

This is not the case. Just go into the tracking menu and select sidereal. This will turn tracking on. Then you can do a quick drift align. Whether or not the mount is aligned does not affect tracking. It will track perfectly; just around the wrong axis.

The problem with not doing a quick drift align is that you can be many degrees out if you only use a rough compass heading and rely on the dec markings. A few degrees is a fair patch of sky.

I have an EQ6 and drift align for taking photos so it takes me about 40 minutes. If i just wanted to set up for visual 10 minutes or less would be enough. The EQ6 has a polar scope built in but unfortunately in Sydney i can't use it as there is too much light pollution.

Cheers
Paul

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi DJDD,

Just a thought, do you have the Altitude set to the right angle/latitude for Melbourne? You didnt mention it and therefore it may have been missed in your setup?

Sorry if its a silly question, but you never know...

Also, doesnt the Eq6 pro have a polar scope? have a look through and see if its lined up visually in the starting position before you even start any goto/alignment tests with the hand controller.

After reading your method a couple of times it seems that you are expecting the mount to "find" Rigel or Achernar? I thought you had to point the mount towards Rigel, centre it in the MIDDLE of the eyepiece and then TELL the mount what star it is? Again, this might be a stupid question as I dont have a goto mount, but, if I dont ask, I dont get an answer to what i think you might be doing wrong....

Cheers

Chris

[AlexN]

My alignment stars very rarely land spot on... It can take a bit of getting used to, the way the mount moves when you push the buttons... It will get to where you want it to go, but it can take a while to figure out how to get it there...

As far as your home position not going back to where it started. Make sure you lock the clutch levers down securely. that would be the first thing I would look at. This would also affect the accuracy of its alignment slews. Also, make sure its balanced right, if not (mind you with such a small load on it, it would have to be grossly unbalanced) but this could cause the gears to slip. especially if the clutches were not locked properly.

Spend some time getting used to how the controls move the mount, and you'll get it aligned...

Polar alignment... This will also affect the accuracy of its slews.. There are plenty of guides on the net about drift alignment, PM me your email address and I'll send you the easiest one around..
Its not difficult once you get the hang of it, and if you intend to get into astrophotography, its a skill you will need to learn whether you're guiding or not..

Let me know if you need any more assistance.
Alex.

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

I had similar problems with the EQ5 goto at the begining. Found that parking the scope and reseting the RA/Dec positions by releasing the axis locks resulted in it "remembering" the correct park postion from then on. The Synscan usually asks if you want to start from the park postion when initialising. If its set up properly there answer yes and it will return to it at shut down.
Very seldom get the alignment stars in the middle of the field, usually have to fiddle with the buttons to get it lined up with the crosshairs in the eyepiece. Releasing the clutches during alignment defeats the purpose of the exercise, adjustments have to be made with the buttons so the mount can get itself orientated. I've found a 2 star alignment works best for me.

The "Quick and Dirty" drift alignment guide mentioned by Alex is definitely the easiest one I've found to follow. I thought the EQ5 was reasonably accurately set up using a compass and protractor, but was still a fair ways out when drift aligned.

Cheers
Bill

[richard omeara]

I always do a 3 star aligment.Its not perfect but it gets you in the ball park.

[DJDD]

Hi all,

thanks for the replies.
I am sure I have said this before but this is the best forum out there.



i guess I had thought i would be much closer to the alignment star than i was.

e.g. this is a rough approximation of the positions when trying to align on Achenar

' ______________________________ x Achenar
'
'
'
'
' ________________________x mount thought Achenar was located
'
' ____ x Rigel
'

One question: A few of you have mentioned the 'clutches'.

AlexN: Make sure you lock the clutch levers down securely
TerryB: Don't use the keys but release the clutches to centre the star
Glenhuon: Releasing the clutches during alignment defeats the purpose of the exercise, adjustments have to be made with the buttons so the mount can get itself orientated.
monoxide: try sending the mount to its home position using the hand controller then undo the clutches and move it to where it should be and try aligning again

Do you mean the R.A. and Dec lock levers? I assumed they should be released (i.e. loose) at all times during alignment, for slewing to objects and tracking. I thought they were simply bolts against the shafts and not undoing them would cause damage.

If not, where are the 'clutches' you mention. There is nothing else that I cans ee on the mount like that.

alex:
i did feel like finding a blunt object...
thanks for the tip on setting tracking going once i have the unit aligned.

TerryB: time/date/timezone. I thhink i set them correctly.
Time and Date = time and date on my watch (which was the correct time for Melbourne)
Daylight savings = YES
maybe I should check my Lat/Long on the controller. I think i set:
Latitude: 37° 57' 27" S
Longitude: 145° 3' 8" E


Kal: not even sure i was close enought to drift align.

Paul: I was certainly a few degrees out from the alignment star! As you say a rough compass bearing will cause problems so perhaps my grief was caused by badly positioning the mount...
if i could get it in the finder i would have been happy but...

Screwdriverone: I did set my altitude to as close to 37.5 degrees as possible. On my Altitude dial 0 degrees is vertical and 90 degrees is horizontal.
regarding the polar scope- well, it does have one but it seems the counterweight shaft runs right through the middle of the view so not sure how i can use it...
of course, with southland 1 km away and roughly south of my position seeing anything to the south is almost impossible!

AlexN: thanks for the tip on the Home position. Again, the 'clutch' thing has me confused...
Thanks for the offer of a simple guide to poar alignment. I will PM you about it.

Glenhuon: your point on 'resetting' the home position will come in handy. I thought i was reasonably spot on with the alignent of the tripod since one of my fences runs East-West but perhaps not.

Richard: thanks for the reply. if i ever get 1-star alignment right i can progress to the 3-star alignment. at the moment, the mount points no where near the 1st star.


Thanks, again, everyone for taking the time to respond.

This is rather embarrassing for me, really...

cheers,
DJDD

[AlexN]

Yep, By clutch I mean the RA and Dec Locking levers... They should be locked at all times during use. It wont cause damage if you dont, but it will definitely make the system inaccurate

Lock them up mate and give it another go! I bet you have more luck!

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by AlexN

Yep, By clutch I mean the RA and Dec Locking levers... They should be locked at all times during use. It wont cause damage if you dont, but it will definitely make the system inaccurate

Lock them up mate and give it another go! I bet you have more luck!

ok. will give it a go next clear night.
should the levers be done up as tight as possible?

it just seemed that the levers were designed to stop the mount from rotating. I assumed that they should be loose so that the motors would control the mechanism...

it all seems so counter-intuitive...
or I am just a bit lame.

thanks, again.

DJDD

[gmbfilter (Geoff)]

Being close or not to alignment stars may not be the problem, as long as you achieve "aliment successful"

I used to spend heaps of time pointing south... correct latitude (purchased digital angle thingie )..leveling mount etc, none of witch is necessary for the goto functions to work

Still need to drift align for photography

I now find that I can be quiet rough in my initial setup, only ever do a 2 star alignment and have fun for the rest of the night!

[AlexN]

They appear to stop the mounts rotation when the mount is turned off, because it locks the gears together, hence you cant rotate it because the motors are engaged... They should be nipped tight, not excessively tight, but just nipped up..

They are designed to be released to offer free rotation of the mounts axis for balancing the mount, once balanced, return it to its home position manually, and then lock the levers down...


I think thats your main problem pretty well solved

Cheers mate, And good luck next clear night!

[vash (Ashley)]

One other really important thing that you might have missed is with the date. Make sure that it is set month - day - year. I had trouble with this as well.

The locks might seem to make the mount stop moving but in reality they are locking the motor to the mount so it can drive it. Unlock them if you want to manually move the scope to an object and lock them to track (this will ruin you goto accuracy if it is already set up by the way).

[DJDD]

hey, vash, i always have to double check the date. The mm/dd/yyyy format is screwy, isn't it.

Alex and vash, thanks for pointing our what the locks are actually doing.
That was worrying me.


I also like Alex's comment:

I think thats your main problem pretty well solved

hopefully that will be it, indeed!

gmbfilter: cheers. hopefully, after the other suggestions I will be up and running.


DJDD

[richard omeara]

Another good time saving toy is the eq6 GPS.Well worth it.

[DJDD]

Originally Posted by richard omeara

Another good time saving toy is the eq6 GPS.Well worth it.

thanks, richard.
I have a GPS unit for bushwalking so at least I know my position.