Go Back   IceInSpace > Beginners Start Here > Beginners Talk
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 16-01-2006, 09:45 PM
Moonshine
Clouds follow me

Moonshine is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 34
Cool Aligning scope

Hi all! I have a Celestron C130 MAK - http://www.celestron.com/prod_pgs/tel/c130makgt.htm. How do all of you go about aligning your scopes? Especially, what procedure do you use to align it geographic south? Thanks!

Don
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 16-01-2006, 11:32 PM
[1ponders]'s Avatar
[1ponders] (Paul)
Retired, damn no pension

[1ponders] is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Obi Obi, Qld
Posts: 18,778
Depends on what you want to do Don. Do you have a polar alignment scope built into your mount? Using that would probably be the quickest way to get an accurate enough alignment for your goto to function.

For DSO photography though drift aligning is probably the most accurate, though time consuming. Though at f/15 you probably won't be taking too many DSOs so critically accurate alignment won't be necessary. I'd suggest finding a spot in your yard that you will always use and do a quick and dirty drift alignment (*)and then mark the spot where your tripod rests. That way each time you come back out and sit up your scope, as long as you haven't moved your Az and Alt adjustments, your alignment should be accurate enough for your goto alignment process to give accurate slewing to objects.


* As an alternative to drift aligning and if you don't have a polar alignment scope, try to set your altitude adjustment as close as you can visually by using the scale on your mount. Set your AZ adjustment near the middle of its range. Now comes the tricky part. Try to find the group of stars near the south pole containing sigma Octanis using binoculars. Once you've found sig Oct, with you binoculars parallel (I actually rest the binocs on the top of the OTA) move the mount tripod until sig oct is in the field of view of the binocs again. Now check your finderscope and see if your lucky enough to have the group of stars visible in the finderscope. If you do then simply adjust your alt and az adjustments until sig oct is center of the finder and then move to your scope eyepiece and adjust again. That should be more than close enough. If however sig oct isn't in the finder scope, hold your binocs against the side of the OTA and adjust the alt adjustment until sig oct is in the field of view of the binocs. Check your finder scope again. If not do the top check again. Keep iterating like this until sig oct is in the finderscope. The secret here is to have your binocs as parallel to your OTA as possible. This process is not accurate enough for imaging DSOs but should be accurate enough for your goto to function effectively and to image planets using a webcam. This method take a bit of getting used to, but once you've mastered it you can quickly adjust your mount where ever you take it to. After a while you get to know where sig oct is and you can eyeball the process (assuming your sky is dark enough )


or check out here http://www.celestron.com/polar.htm

Hope all that made sense
Attached Thumbnails
Click for full-size image (SCP-small.jpg)
22.0 KB32 views

Last edited by [1ponders]; 16-01-2006 at 11:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 17-01-2006, 09:05 AM
OneOfOne's Avatar
OneOfOne (Trevor)
Meteor & fossil collector

OneOfOne is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bentleigh
Posts: 1,386
I live in Melbourne, so the magnetic deviation may not be the same so you will need to check that out. I only purchased my scope in January last year, so I have only had my Celestron 8 inch GoTo for a year. After initially worrying about how accurate it needs to be, I read all the information etc on alignment and decided to try, after a couple of months, what I call the "plonk" method as I just wanted to "get out there". Note this method will allow you to align quickly with enough accuracy, for me at least, that the objects you slew to will be pretty close anyway, always in the finder and often in the view even at 100x, I drop it to about 30x if I can't find it. It will be good enough to show people things in the time it takes to slew and a few seconds to center it. It will be useless if you want to take long exposures or have the scope aligned for hours on end. I used this method in Ballarat at the star camp and I aligned the scope at 9pm and was still able to slew accurately at 1am, when the battery went flat. But I did take reasonable care that the initial "plonk" was pretty accurate. I did not change the lat/long in the hand controller though, so the scope still thought it was in Melbourne! So this is what I do:

I asked if anyone on the group knew the deviation from magnetic south for Melbourne and use this figure to set the tripod up. When looking to the south, true south is about 12 degrees to the "LEFT" of magnetic south, so I use a compass to find magnetic south and then turn the tripod around until the line through the polar axis is pointing about 12 degrees left of this position. If you have a large area to set up, you could find something in the distance with this bearing and set the scope to point to this, but my back fence is about 3 meters maximum from the tripod so it is pretty hard to get a bearing to that. As it turns out, I have found with experience it actually is not that critical anyway. I have even estimated the bearing with my eye, and the alignment has been good enough to work for an hour or so, but I have had to do a lot of manual fine tuning each time. If you are looking at bright objects, the alignment is less critical as it will be pretty easy to tell what needs to be centered manually.

I have set the graduated scale on the altitude to as close, by eye, to Melbourne (can't remember, but about 30 something) as I can. Usually I will also level the tripod, although some times I have not, and it does not appear to have a huge difference, but it only takes a few seconds and is usually worth doing.

Then I go through the usual alignment procedure. I select the 3 star rather than auto as my yard has a lot of trees and often I cannot see the star it is asking for. That's it. From start to finish, it takes about 10-15 minutes to set up the tripod and align the computer. The BEST thing I ever bought for the alignment was a laser (you need a permit too in Victoria) and a bracket to mount it (I have a Lumicon, but they are all pretty similar, some people even use tape!). Before then, it could take more than half an hour just to line up the three stars and I am afraid my back is getting past it...I was at school when they landed on the Moon.

I have a polar scope, southern hemisphere, but have not used it yet. To get details about how to use it, I found several great articles, albeit complex, on the yahoo group for advanced series scopes. These guys can also help with any specific questions for the mount and control software you have. I just tried http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Celestron_AS/ but the server couldn't find it, maybe it is down at the moment. From my backyard, in the "burbs", on a clear night I can just make out the fifth star in Crux, often only four, so finding the pole star from my place would also be rather difficult anyway.

Looking at the link to the scope, your mount appears to be the same as mine so all this should work as well for you as for me. If you want to get more serious, you will need to refine the alignment procedure, but so far this has worked well for me and is very quick. There a methods to slew to pole and adjust the mount with the adjustment screws and so on that I have see, but so far I am happy enough.

If you let the technicalities put you off too much, you will miss out on the best part of having a goto - being able to look at dozens of things in the evening, and the GoTo just leaves so many people dumb founded when they see it working, just a bit of a pain when there is so much glow in my yard that you can't see anything, mind you, I could read the newspaper while waiting for the slewing . I always check the info first to ensure I am not slewing to a magnitude 12 galaxy!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 17-01-2006, 12:14 PM
OneOfOne's Avatar
OneOfOne (Trevor)
Meteor & fossil collector

OneOfOne is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bentleigh
Posts: 1,386
I was thinking a bit more about this and my theory is something like this:

If the mount is a "dumb" manual or motor drive, the movements are relative to where the polar axis is pointing and so alignment is more critical. If you are say 5 degrees off, your movements will pivot about this point rather than the pole and so the larger the arc you move around, the further out you will be.

If it is a GoTo type mount, probably any manufacturer and not just Celestron, maybe the computer is able to "skew" the stars around inside its little brain. Thus the lack of alignment is compensated to some extent. However, as it tracks an object, is still only moves ONE axis. This will cause the object to slowly drift out of the centre with time - this happens if I center a star and leave it for a while. The star is no longer in the middle after a few minutes (this is basically what the "drift" method uses to get proper alignment). You will notice that when you press the final align button, the hand control has a bit of a think and then says alignment successful.

Don't know how much of this is actually true, but maybe this helps to explain why some times have have taken almost no care in setting it up, and yet the slew is still pretty close...objects are at least in the finder, but not quite in the eyepiece. My job is a computer programmer, and I can see that such compensation could be possible...actually they say alignment of an Alt/Az type mount is less critical than an equatorial because it moves in two axis to track something...but you will get field rotation near the pole.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 17-01-2006, 02:58 PM
Moonshine
Clouds follow me

Moonshine is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 34
Thanks guys - I think the mistake I was making was in tihnking that with East variation, true south was to the RIGHT of magnetic south - I seem to remember "variation east - magnetic least" from my flying days, so I had been aligning the scope to the right of magnetic south - not left as pointed out below.


Don
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 17-01-2006, 03:16 PM
ballaratdragons's Avatar
ballaratdragons (Ken)
The 'DRAGON MAN'

ballaratdragons is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In the Dark at Snake Valley, Victoria
Posts: 14,412
Gets tricky when using a compass! Here in my backyard I line up about 12 degrees left of Magnetic South to get me in the general direction. This measurement varies everywhere you go. It can vary by moving only a few metres! Best to get near Sigma Octans and then use the drift method
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 17-01-2006, 06:44 PM
RAJAH235's Avatar
RAJAH235
A very 'Senior' member.

RAJAH235 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: South Coast N.S.W.
Posts: 2,568
fwiw, here's the 'howtofindmagdev' link >
http://www.ga.gov.au/oracle/geomag/agrfform.jsp
L.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 18-01-2006, 07:52 AM
OneOfOne's Avatar
OneOfOne (Trevor)
Meteor & fossil collector

OneOfOne is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bentleigh
Posts: 1,386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonshine
Thanks guys - I think the mistake I was making was in tihnking that with East variation, true south was to the RIGHT of magnetic south - I seem to remember "variation east - magnetic least" from my flying days, so I had been aligning the scope to the right of magnetic south - not left as pointed out below.


Don
I must admit, I had to think about that too. Normally, of course, they probably assume you are facing north (America centric) while we think in terms of "south". Hope you get some success,

May all your slews be accurate ones!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 05:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Testar
Advertisement