Outrageous Electricity rise

[TrevorW]

20 kwh a day translates to $1.60 per day at 8c a kwh so how did you work out $1200 per year

in WA my 1.5 kwh system produces an average of 6.6 kwh per day at 7c per kwh I save 46.2 per day

http://www.solarchoice.net.au/blog/w...ble-Energy.jpg

[cometcatcher (Kevin)]

3kw of panels may produce 20 kw/h per day on the planet Mercury, not so much here on Earth.

It averages 4kw/h per 1kw of panels giving 3kw of panels an average of 12kw/h per day. That's 96c per day, or $350 per year giving a payback time of 20 years. Then the system is dead. No payback sorry.

[GrampianStars (Rob)]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

20 kwh a day translates to $1.60 per day at 8c a kwh so how did you work out $1200 per year
in WA my 1.5 kwh system produces an average of 5 kwh per day at 7c per kwh I save 42c per day

Love to know where your buying power at 0.08c a kWh ? Nowhere....

I was conservative with the buying cost around 16.5c per kWh
Most people are NOW buying power at 25c-30c per kWh

Based on my figures you saved around $301 in power bills for the first year
going forward including power cost rises and inflation over 10 years you will have saved around $10,015 in power bills

[TrevorW]

Energy we produce now in WA via a PV is purchased from us by Synergy at 7c a kwh they then sell it back to us at 20c a KWH

REB schemes in some states have now been considerably reduced

people installing a new PV system at least in this state no longer receive 47 or 27c per kwh for energy they produce

http://www.energymatters.com.au/gove...edintariff.php

Example

My last energy bill

RE Renewable Energy
*60.0000 units @ 7.000000 cents per unit $ 4.20CR
HOME PLAN (A1) TARIFF
754.0000 units @ 19.878500 cents per unit $ 149.88

As to why the REBS scheme is a fiasco

"It has been reported that NSW households could pay an extra $600 on their electricity bill over six years to cover the $2 billion cost of the failure of the state government's over-generous tariff scheme. The total cost to families in some regional areas could be $1000"

[GrampianStars (Rob)]

Go get SOLAR now Victorians and have your system payed off in short time.
http://www.energymatters.com.au/inde...rticle_id=3218
In 5years (2017) Us Vic's will be on the Horrible WA 0.07c per kWh model as TrevorW has. Urghhhh....

[TrevorW]

and for those interested in the tax rulings


The Australian Tax Office [ATO] has released its findings regarding the treatment of income generated from selling electricity back to the grid.

In short, the finding was very favorable for projects installed on a principal residence as the credits or payments will not be classified as assessable income for tax purposes. This ruling makes going solar all the more attractive, especially for the larger 10kw investment style projects. Below are the three key rulings taken from the ATO website.
Ruling
1. Are the credits or payments you receive for power generated by solar panels on your residence, assessable for income tax?
Answer: No.
2. Are you entitled to either an outright deduction or a decline in value deduction for the cost of the solar panels?
Answer: No.
3. Are you entitled to any deductions in relation to funds borrowed in order to purchase the solar panels?
Answer: No.
Whilst you cannot depreciate the asset nor claim a tax deduction for the interest on any borrowed money, the solar installation will add value to your home and becomes a great selling point upon the resale of the property. This will become especially relevant if the government proceeds with attaching an energy rating to each residential home.
The link below refers to the ATO tax ruling regarding income from solar panels:
(Update 17 Oct 2011: The document originally linked to in this article is no longer available on the ATO website. Private rulings similar to the original can be found here and here.)
The above ruling will not apply for non-primary residences such as investment properties or businesses. Furthermore, if you are registered for GST purposes and make the installation with the intention of furthering business enterprise, then GST will be applied to any income generated.

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by TrevorW

A country with more sunlight hours than most other in the world and with a Govt sprouting the virture of a Carbon tax to reduce Co2 emissions, we should be a the forefront of renewable energy but we are not.

The only way to change this is at the poll, but I'm stumped as to whom to choose as the lesser evil.

Liberals would be last choice,
Nationals second last,
Labour third last... not there is much to choose between them.

None of the above is the correct answer.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

What a mixed up old thread this is.....

Part winging, part pontificating, part hollow care about the need for renewable energy, part talk back radio cheap shot rubbish...quite funny to read

[Exfso (Peter)]

Amazing how this has gone to hell and back, all I was complaining about was the outlandish increase placed on consumers here in SA from the 1st of July. I believe other states have varying increases as well. Before the rise I am paying between 27.5 and 32 c/kwh depending on my useage per quarter, this is the winter rate and in summer it jumps a couple of cents/kwh. When you add the nearly 20% increase those prices per kwh become ridiculous. I heard the state premier here questioned on the news tonight on why SA is the most expensive place in the world, yep, the WORLD for electricity pricing, his reply, you guessed it, he blamed the opposition and the fact that SA was privatised when the opposition were in power.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

Originally Posted by Exfso

Amazing how this has gone to hell and back, all I was complaining about was the outlandish increase placed on consumers here in SA from the 1st of July. I believe other states have varying increases as well. Before the rise I am paying between 27.5 and 32 c/kwh depending on my useage per quarter, this is the winter rate and in summer it jumps a couple of cents/kwh. When you add the nearly 20% increase those prices per kwh become ridiculous. I heard the state premier here questioned on the news tonight on why SA is the most expensive place in the world, yep, the WORLD for electricity pricing, his reply, you guessed it, he blamed the opposition and the fact that SA was privatised when the opposition were in power.

Oh by all means change the government, like some in this thread think is the panacea for everything, state and/or federal, and watch the prices continue to go up electricity costs what it does because you will pay it, it's a business now like banking, simple, no conservative government is going to change anything about that.

Mike

[TrevorW]

In WA you are not allowed to keep your existing electro mechanically meter after you have a PV system installed even though it will run quite happily and not interfere with existing power supply system.

In the US

Net Metering— In more than 35 states, customers who own PV systems can benefit from laws and regulations that require “net” electric meter reading. The customer is billed for the net electricity purchased from the utility over the entire billing period—that is, the difference between the electricity coming from the power grid and the electricity generated by the PV system. Through net metering, the customer obtains the full retail electricity rate—rather than the much lower wholesale rate—for kilowatt-hours of PV-produced electricity sent to the utility power grid.

This same generousity is not available in Australia at least in WA nor other states as far as I am aware. When the REBS schemes where offerred you weren't given this option. You are made to have a smart meter installed at your cost so that the Electricity Utility could monitor production and consumption.

With the cancelling of the rebate schemes in WA they now only have to pay you the lesser wholesale rate of 7c kwh yet force you to instal a smart meter if you decide to have a PV system.

Now in my opinion that is illegal and blantant theivery- how are they being fair and and reasonable as required under the Federal Renewable Energy agreements.

At least in WA we now have a Labour shadow minister that has a good chance of winning the next State election and hopefully may change things, who knows.

[Exfso (Peter)]

I think a lot of people here are missing the point How can the prices keep climbing like they are, electricity, like it or not is an essential service. People who are on the bones of their bum cannot afford it now without having these huge price hikes. Where will it end, open revolt could happen, it would probably happen in other countries that are copping this sort of gouging! Seriously though, people are defaulting on their electricity bills in huge numbers and this is increasing at a huge rate even before these outlandish rises. It really has got totally out of hand and something serious has to be done or we are have a good chance of going down the gurglar.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

If KWH charges are 50c a KWH, it might be cheaper to use your own generator during that period. I have a live aboard boat(as well as my home) with a bank of deep cycle batteries - 410amp/hr is enough to run economically with less than 50% discharge per day. OK so that is pretty frugal, as it only works out to 2 1/2 kw/hrs. If you run the charger/inverter during the day for 4 hrs you are sweet.
But in a home, you could do that with 14 panels and some batteries and the inverter.

That means total disconnection from the mains - they don't like it, but they are obliged to do it if you request it.

[TrevorW]

Jennifer is right

When debating the legality of the enforcement of a smart meter with Synergy, they said I could apply to be islanded ie: disconnected from the energy supplier altogether (I would still have to apply)

It was just another scare tactic IMO as they had already installed the smart meter and the cost of setting up sufficient storage batteries etc would be prohibitive in my case

Mind you I wouldn't be surpised when alternative energy options and battery storage/life improves sufficiently that this doesn't become a common practice.

[AndrewJ]

Discussing the legality of the rises is probably moot,
as the Govt ( whichever one is in ) will just legislate to cover it.
If they want/need money, they will find a way,
be it electricity rises, paying for desal water we arent getting,
or whatever else is going on we havent heard about yet.
I ( tongue in cheek) appended this to an earlier post

in the state where the top three growth industries are now
a) State fines
b) Private fines
c) Creating scripts for Death insurance adverts

This morning on the radio ( ABC not ratbag shock jocks )
they were discussing the new "indexed" fines,
most up 12.5%, but there were some new beauties in there as well.
Two in special were
double parking to drop off/pick up kids near schools
from ~$120 to ~$430
missing the reregistration of your boat ( $73 fee )
fine goes to ~$700
edit
finally found a summary for the boating enhancements
http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/art...test-news.html

I know people say if you dont want fines, dont break the law,
but it appears ( our ) govt is depending on fines to keep us going.
( I liked the fact you can now be fined for not retrieving a fishing line )

If that is what we have to do whilst the country is in the best economic health it has ever been in, then its not going to stabilise any time soon,
and the only way to get cheaper electricity etc will be to pay massively more for it (somewhere).

Andrew

[midnight (Darrin)]

Originally Posted by Exfso

I think a lot of people here are missing the point How can the prices keep climbing like they are, electricity, like it or not is an essential service.

Coal fired power stations will generate electricity (sell to the market) from anywhere around $20-$50 per MWHr. The station I work at is around $37 / MWhr or about 4c per kWHr. So it would be interesting to compare other regular items like unleaded/diesel from wholsale to retail etc where we know electricity is generated at approx 4c (wholesale) & then retail at say 21 c (Synergy). Then one can gauge the % markup taking into account cost to produce, infrastructure etc.

As for smart meters, they meter net import and net export. Unless they have a dedicated second meter for the solar panel, the only difference between smart meter and a conventional induction type (for the purpose of this discussion) is that the smart meter will tally up the exported energy whereas the induction meter, you have no idea how much actually went out unless you read the meter all the time. Yes the disc will go backwards but it will move forward again as soon you consume more than generated. Smart meters can do all sorts of different tariffs etc etc but I won't go into that.

When you are "net importing" you are still getting the retail price (eg Synergy is 21.7 c/kWhr at A1 tariff) for energy produced that you consume. This is not much use for a household whose energy use is bulked around the shoulder periods (morning and night) when the sun is down too far and you're not home during peak solar generation to "use" the energy and benefit from the price. At 7c per kWHr in the example of a household using most energy at night, solar may not be economical and you are indeed getting a very raw deal from the distributor.

The other thing to consider is if you go off grid with solar, you may not be able to get the full capital subsidy. Remember to generate 3kWHrs via solar/batteries to avoid a premium period of approx 4hrs (eg 50 c/kWHr) you may need approx 5 x 100AHr deep cycles (to get a useful ~250AHr) at about $200 ea + about 1.5kW solar panels + inverter + MP charger and most likely no subsidy. This could run as higher or higher than $8500. At 50 c per kWHr, it would take you over 10yrs to pay it off. If you can get the subsidy then this price would be substantially lower. Most distributors do not like such systems connected to the grid as they are designed to stay energised when off grid and then you need change over switches & lock out devices to avoid back feeding a dead line.

I have my own ideas of why prices are going up but unfortunately, it is getting more complicated to work out the most economical product for each household.

Darrin...

[michaellxv (Michael)]

Just got my electricity bill and comparing to the same period last year we have reduced our consumption by over 1/3rd. (31.51kWh/day down to 20.74kWh/day). All our electric heaters are still packed up in the shed this year we are only keeping one room warm with the gas heater. The actual bill only reduced by less than 1/4

[TrevorW]

I wonder what will happen as demand falls when(if) everyone becomes more energy conscious

[Colin_Fraser]

I checked a suppliers web site for price structure and sent them an email asking them to confirm the prices advertised.
The wrote back and said from July 1 the prices will rise...
From 22c/kWh to 26c/kWh (usage)
from 65c/day to 80c/day (service fee)
GST on top of that. Pretty hefty hike.

Last bill I used 1125kWh. Don't know how that compares with others.

[jenchris (Jennifer)]

My service fee ATM is 26 cents a day - which is tolerable
I use 12.55Kw/H per day at 21cents.
I use gas for cooking and electricity for water heating (I'm a POM so that is a small charge lol)
Nearly all my lights are LED or miniflouro.