Outrageous Electricity rise

[Colin_Fraser]

Originally Posted by Allan_L

Putting this back on topic:
Increases in electricity Prices

YES. Electricity Prices have increased significantly in recent years.

Who is mainly responsible:
State Governments (Privitisation, or preparation for privatisation)

100% agree.

Secondary Cause:
Increase in cost of coal due to huge demands for coal from export markets.
(check the number of ships waiting off Newcastle harbour)

Tasmania have 87% hydro and wind power and a backup of 13% via Basslink to Vic.
Tassie retailers charge 89.1c/day as opposed to Vic's 65c/day
Price per kWh: Tassie 25.1c/kWh Vic: 23c/kWh
So in my view, the price of coal has little to do with it. More like greed.
So the question "why do electricity retailers continually increase the price?"
The only answer is "because they can and there's nothing you can do about it"

EDIT: and if you are lucky to live in Canberra where the federal politicians are, electricity retailers only charge 15c/kWh

[marki]

Originally Posted by Colin_Fraser

The Victorian government just slashed 300 million dollars off the TAFE funding and as a result 1000 jobs will go. So the government IS responsible.

Had the people of Victoria been more innovative and productive the gov't would have had more money in the coffers and there would be a greater need for skilled labour so the positons available at TAFE would be increased not decreased. The money has to come from some where.

Manufactures chose to close factories and move off shore, not to compete but to increase profits. The consumer HAS NO CHOICE. We have to buy these goods or go without.

Then go without or suffer the consequences as we are now. If the market stops buying a product the producer can not survive and will soon get the message that they need to change tactics or flog their wares elsewhere. Of course we could have had the gov't ban them from leaving right .

What actions? It is the large companies that have reduced apprenticeships to record low in favour of importing cheap Chinese labour.

The fact that we rely on others to provide us with income points to the sad mentallity held by many Australians. You are the architech of your own destiny, why should others be responsible for your well being? Get off your backside and make the changes you need to ensure you are independant and not a victim then you to could be hiring cheap labour.

Nothing wrong in wanting to own your own home to raise a family.Two young people meet and fall in love, get married and have a child. They rent while saving for a deposit for a home.

No it's not and I would even go as far as saying a roof over your head should be a right just like water from the tap but 2 or 3 or 4. Hell there are even TV shows that tell you how to do it, buy a house on spec, spend the minimum amount of time and money making changes and flog it off at a huge profit to some poor young fool who has been convinced by the media and greedy real estate agents that Australia is short on land and if they don't buy now they will forever be a failure in life. Had that money gone into developing better technologies we may have had more choices now. Kids may have had better future prospects and had a hope of living the dream even if it was reduced in size. But real estate is safe right??? Talk about eating your young.

Husband looks to future and puts away an extra $10 a week to his super fund then loses the lot. Rent goes up because there is a housing shortage.

Again relying on others to ensure your own well being. Super was created to build a large pool of funds which could be used to invest and help industries grow with you and I picking up the wind fall if things went well. Problem is as we all now know, share and money markets are at best a crap shoot and can not be relied on to deliver a comfortable ride into senility. Hmmm I wonder what ever happened to the concept of savings? Oh thats right we simply must have a TV in every room, 16 mobiles, 23 cars, 6 boats, spa, swimming pool, holiday house, caravan, 20 maxed out credit cards........... are we any happier I think not.

Fuel costs increase cutting into budget. They now have to reduce spending. Child gets ill and goes to doctor who no longer bulk bills, more expense.

Quite frankly you chose to have children....expensive little buggers aren't they. Still you get tax relief and gov't handouts to help you on your way. Oh you could always change your family doctor as well. Try being a single middle class white male in this society and see what you get. Again as it was your choice to have children you are responsible for their well being, what are you going to do about it?

This family has no control over the cost of living nor did they contribute to it. Well they are to blame. They have created this situation through poor policies and looking after the interests of multinational companies.

Thing is without the evil multi nationals Australia would be stuffed. We are so apathetic that we would stand around whinging that no one was looking after us properly rather then getting off our RS and doing something about it. This may sound harsh but its the way things are.

Before the industrial revolution, families would take responsibility for all their needs, housing, food, clothing, even in the 18 and early 1900's. When we all went to work for others we lost our independence and now you see the result.



Mark

[Colin_Fraser]

Before the industrial revolution, families would take responsibility for all their needs, housing, food, clothing etc etc. When we all went to work for others we lost our independence and now you see the result.

Thanks Mark. Now I understand.
The high, ever-increasing electricity prices is because after the industrial revolution 160 years ago people went out and got a job
Makes perfect sense

[marki]

Originally Posted by Colin_Fraser

Thanks Mark. Now I understand.
The high, ever-increasing electricity prices is because after the industrial revolution 160 years ago people went out and got a job
Makes perfect sense

So glad you understand why you feel so at the mercy of others

Mark

[AndrewJ]

Gday Mark

So glad you understand why you feel so at the mercy of others

Whilst i understand a lot of your discussion and counterpoints,
i would add that in many ways, the lower echelons of society
have no means to bypass a lot of the problems,
and are at the mercy of others.
Ie Taking capitalism and Caveat Emptor to an extreme,
Why cant we import ( on say a fly in fly out scheme )
doctors, lawyers, dentists, accountants, politicians?????
Sure there is an inherent risk involved with using a cheaper
but competitive service, but if you cant afford a roller,
why cant you buy a bomb and take chance???
Ie when it comes to the the more menial jobs and pay,
nothing is sacred and Overseas competition is a fact of life now,
ie manufacturers are happy/forced to export the jobs of those who are now "too expensive" to retain.
why cant this be reversed and the peasants now be allowed to "import" cheaper professional services?????

Andrew

PS I dont know the answer, but the gap is widening fast

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Andrew, the concept of importing doctors, dentists, lawyers etc is totally impractical because of different educational standards. would you want some third rate doctor/ dentist treating you? I think not!-you would want someone whom you trusted to have the necessary skill and knowhow to take care of you. And as for lawyers, the law where they would come from may be significantly different to here so they would not function well here without signicant training in our law-more expense.

[AndrewJ]

Gday Laurie

would you want some third rate doctor/ dentist treating you?

No, but i dont personally "assume" that because someone is "from overseas" that they are "third rate".
Many are probably better trained and more up to date than some practitioners in Oz.

All i'm saying is its up to the purchaser what they are allowed to buy.
If you cant afford $1000/hr for a specialist who can do everything
and has everything that goes beep and bing
but can afford $100/hr for someone who can fix your specific problem,
then why not????
I dont need a "worlds best practice" dental practitioner
to give my teeth a scrape every now and then.

And as for lawyers, the law where they would come from may be significantly different to here

So what?? Are you saying they cant learn the requirements for a foreign country??? I mean we always learn how other countries operate before we deal with them.
Its not that hard for 90% of the business that gets done.
On top of that, the clots we have working here dont know
how it works anyway. Its always a "lets go to court and sort it out" exercise. Both lawyers get paid but one always loses

Andrew

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Andrew, I am a health care professional, and I can assure you that our doctors and dentists are among the worlds most highly qualified. Most doctors/dentists who come here have to undergo further training and sit for examinations before being allowed to practice.
For my part I spent 5 years at university gaining my qualification, and continuing education every year of practise after that, so I am very up-to-date with the latest developments, as are my colleagues.
From your comments, I assume you do not have much respect for professionals.
As for lawyers, I would prefer to use one familiar with local law. Do you want your divorce or whatever handled by someone unfamiliar with local requirements?

[AndrewJ]

Gday Laurie

From your comments, I assume you do not have much respect for professionals.

I have the utmost respect for our medical professionals ( less for some of the law based ones )
All i am trying to point out is if you cant afford it,
its a pointless exercise to discuss the qualifications.
I would refer the recent debate on why dentistry isnt covered by medicare. I personally didnt realise how many people put off dental work to the point of getting so sick that they were hospitalised
as emergency cases.
I also didnt realise how many people now go on "dental/medical" holidays
to hospitals in SE asia ( with Aust/GreatBritain/US trained personnel ).
Simple reason, cost differential.

In a country as rich as ours (supposedly is),
i find that a bit alarming.

Andrew

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Hi Andrew
Dentistry is covered by Medicare for people with medical conditions which their doctor feels would be improved by better dental health. Doctor gives them a form to take to the nominated dentist, who then carries out necessary treatment.
This was an initiative of the previous federal govt., and the current mob have been trying to get rid of it since their election.
Suggest you research the draconian treatment of dentists using this scheme by Medicare-some have been financially ruined through simple errors in paperwork.
Aust. Dental Assoc. is trying to get this scheme replaced by something targetted toward the more needy of our society.
Anyway, I think we are getting way off topic with this discussion.
Have to agree with you about lawyers, though.

[supernova1965 (Warren)]

Originally Posted by Larryp

Hi Andrew
Dentistry is covered by Medicare for people with medical conditions which their doctor feels would be improved by better dental health. Doctor gives them a form to take to the nominated dentist, who then carries out necessary treatment.
This was an initiative of the previous federal govt., and the current mob have been trying to get rid of it since their election.
Suggest you research the draconian treatment of dentists using this scheme by Medicare-some have been financially ruined through simple errors in paperwork.
Aust. Dental Assoc. is trying to get this scheme replaced by something targetted toward the more needy of our society.
Anyway, I think we are getting way off topic with this discussion.
Have to agree with you about lawyers, though.

The current government in partenership with the greens is trying to introduce Denticare but the opposition is for it but won't commit to back it if they win government

http://greensmps.org.au/denticare

[AndrewJ]

Gday Laurie

Suggest you research the draconian treatment of dentists using this scheme by Medicare-some have been financially ruined through simple errors in paperwork.

I heard about that one, but i believe the govt is looking
at retrospectively fixing the simple errors.
Its not the first time a Govt dept has destroyed peoples lives on a bit of paperwork.

( and now with tongue firmly in cheek )
Perhaps the dentists should have hired good accountants to do the paperwork, as then, when it all turned to custard, they could have got some lawyers to sue the accountants.

Andrew

hmmm, i see i have just got my gas bill in the post.
Wonder how that has changed

[Larryp (Laurie)]

Hi Andrew
The paperwork was nothing to do with accounting. The requirement is that the dentist send a report to the referring doctor and give the patient a written quote BEFORE starting treatment. Difficult to do if the patient is in pain! Why the patient required a quote when they mostly weren't paying (bulk bill) is beyond me. If this was not done religiously, the penalty involved refunding to Medicare ALL the fees paid.
Trouble is, the scheme was devised by bureaucrats with no consideration for the daily workings of private practice medicine/dentistry.
No doubt if a new scheme is instituted, the professions will want to consulted to come up with something workable.

[AdrianF (Adrian)]

I have done an audit of what we have running during a "normal" day (6am to 6pm)
2 1200lpm fish tank filters and we leave the microwave running for the clock. Hot water heater is not off peak. I have requested to have it on off peak. It because we don't own the place we have to get owners consent, so far no no replies to email requests.

Adrian

[Tandum (Robin)]

Our latest bill is down from around $900 to well under $600. The boy child moved out 3 months ago

In late news, the QLD government has just reduced feed in tariffs for solar systems from 44c to 8c

[overlord (Charles)]

Originally Posted by Tandum

Our latest bill is down from around $900 to well under $600. The boy child moved out 3 months ago

In late news, the QLD government has just reduced feed in tariffs for solar systems from 44c to 8c

Is that electricity AND gas?

My lectricity bill went from 150 in summer to over 350! :ey epop::eyepo p:: eyepop:

[GrampianStars (Rob)]

All this useless posting about $$$ spent
It should be about kWh usage per day
for me currently 10.41 kWh
last bill $178
run fridge computer,projector,scope,heating,li ghts,oven, etc
WHERE are your high usages coming from

[cometcatcher (Kevin)]

Originally Posted by Tandum

In late news, the QLD government has just reduced feed in tariffs for solar systems from 44c to 8c

They really DON'T want people to install new solar systems do they. How nice of them to only pay 1/3rd of what they charge us. That will kill the install business dead. A system could never pay for itself.

[TrevorW]

In the US many energy providers do a 1:1 rebate and don't require you to have a smart meter installed, electro mechanical meters that run in reverse when more power than consumed is produced, suffice.

In England when electricity production was privatised electro mechanical meters where banned and smart meters became mandatory. The REBS scheme in the UK was slammed in Partliament as a fiasco.

With the introduction of the REBS scheme in Australia when rebates were being offered higher than retail electricity prices Smart meters are a necessity for you to receive those rebates.

Under the Federal Govt renewable energy buyback scheme how like in WA can Qld power consider that 8c is fair and reasonable and still try and force (which I don't think they can legally do) a smart meter onto users and charge you for it. A debate I'm presently having with the Minister and Synergy in WA at the moment.

It's just another indication how FUPD the REBS system is, how Govt's have no idea what they are doing when they involve themself in these schemes to bolster industry and the economy.

If you have a look at the Energy Matters site check out the disparity in schemes across Australia.

Now isn't it typical the Federal Govt introduces the carbon tax then reduces the subsidies for PV systems.

The only way for the PV industry to survive is for Federal/State Govt/Energy suppliers to renegotiate existing rebate schemes so that everyone is treated fair and equitably. Without this and more realistic pricing of PV systems, then the industry will die IMO.

A country with more sunlight hours than most other in the world and with a Govt sprouting the virture of a Carbon tax to reduce Co2 emissions, we should be a the forefront of renewable energy but we are not.

The only way to change this is at the poll, but I'm stumped as to whom to choose as the lesser evil.

[GrampianStars (Rob)]

Originally Posted by cometcatcher

They really DON'T want people to install new solar systems do they. How nice of them to only pay 1/3rd of what they charge us. That will kill the install business dead. A system could never pay for itself.

Ha? doesn't figure....
A 3Kw PV system costs about $6.5K to install, current BUY cost around 22c per kWh
Generates around 13kWh a day....
saving around $1040 per year on current prices
payback is 4.2 yeas without a buyback scheme from energy companies.
Saving $6018 in bills over 4 years if you include annual 20% increase in power costs.
Saving around $34,700 in bills over the first 10 years alone
Anyone want a new mount or scope